SirEdger Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 14 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Also, did anyone else here get the impression that Braun looked like a deer in the headlights during his promo? Apparently, it might have been caused by Braun forgetting some of his lines during that promo. 3 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: To no one's surprise, SmackDown was fucking amazing. Carmella, as usual, being the MVP of multi-woman matches. Indeed, another great Smackdown Live. Rey Mysterio & Andrade Cien Almas' chemistry is off the charts. We even got a freaking Canadian Destroyer! When's the last time a piledriver was allowedon WWE TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure Sin Cara did a similar move against Andrade. It wasn't as graceful but the final product was also similar to a Canadian Destroyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Redneck Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 9:37 PM, Johnny Sorrow said: They actually brought him out for the live crowd? I called that wrong. There was really no reaction by the crowd to Hogan when he walked ( limped) out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 15 hours ago, SirEdger said: Apparently, it might have been caused by Braun forgetting some of his lines during that promo. Overly scripted promo bullshit is one of the banes of modern wrestling. Let wrestlers sink or swim on their own. Can't be any worse than what we currently get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Not sure how much was Braun forgetting lines, or how much they left him on his own, but wrestlers being produced sometimes can lead to good things (aka Alexa). While bland promos don't exactly leads you to the highest mountains, looking like a goober (like Braun did) sure can drag you down the mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 It's quite alarming how less over Braun is than a year ago. If he loses again to Brock at the Rumble I think he's cooked as a top guy. What happened to the program they were teasing with Drew? I know a lot of the talk was that he was only so over because he was feuding with Roman but even post Roman he was getting gigantic reactions. The weird heel turn in September killed him and then he turns right back after the Shield program was over. Such strange booking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 They won't do it but Braun needs to win the title at the Rumble. I don't know why they didn't just give him the belt at the Saudi show. If they wanted Brock to go into Mania as the champ they could've just done the switch at the Rumble with a run-in finish to at least give Braun a hot Mania programme. He's been booked like a fill-in guy at the top while theyre waiting for something else and that's how fans are going to treat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Strummer said: It's quite alarming how less over Braun is than a year ago. If he loses again to Brock at the Rumble I think he's cooked as a top guy. What happened to the program they were teasing with Drew? I know a lot of the talk was that he was only so over because he was feuding with Roman but even post Roman he was getting gigantic reactions. The weird heel turn in September killed him and then he turns right back after the Shield program was over. Such strange booking The weird heel turn came a week after everyone was excited about what looked to be a Reigns heel turn but obviously wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I don't see him beating Lesnar and I'm of the opinion that Lesnar drops the title at Mania to someone (hopefully AJ, but more likely Rollins) and then does some sort of big fight for UFC in the summer/fall of 2020. Granted, I've been wrong about Lesnar before, thinking (falsely) that he was leaving after last year's Mania and then he stuck around (relatively speaking) till SummerSlam. Maybe the same will happen this year? So yes, Braun Strowman is heading into Big Show territory. Will he one day hold a World Championship? Absolutely. Like Big Show, there may even be some good runs and some stretches where he's somewhat credible. But a real aura? A bankable draw like The Undertaker? Nope. Whatever is left of it (and there's not much) is going to be F'5'd to oblivion on January 27th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 The Braun heel turn played a huge part in my stopping watching. Just so terrible and stupid and random. And it came literally a week after an emotional ending to Raw with the Shield reunion that had me more excited than I had been in ages. Stupid me. I think it’s pretty easy to point to the Nicholas match at Mania being where it all started going downhill for him, and it really picked up speed from there. It went from some people saying “he is like Stone Cold” to “he’s like the Big Show” in no time. The wheels coming off for Braun coupled with Roman getting sick made Raw completely unwatchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 When was the last time he did one of his big stunt spots that got over big? It's been forever. He used to be this huge guy who was bigger and more destructive than anyone else and now he's just a wrestler who's big. I don't think they could've kept his super hot run going permanently without the novelty wearing off - he should be an Andre/Undertaker type special attraction as opposed to a permanent top guy. But that makes the argument that they should've just hot shot the belt onto him in 2017 to give him his crowning moment all the more obvious. Now he's just being Lugered by permanently chasing and never winning. He might be the biggest victim of Vince's hard-on for Brock having the belt, moreso even than Reigns. He should've just won it at No Mercy 2017, even if it was only going to be a two or three month reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Zoo Enthusiast said: I think it’s pretty easy to point to the Nicholas match at Mania being where it all started going downhill for him, and it really picked up speed from there. It went from some people saying “he is like Stone Cold” to “he’s like the Big Show” in no time. The wheels coming off for Braun coupled with Roman getting sick made Raw completely unwatchable. Yeah, while he clearly misses Roman as his nemesis, this has been, oddly, forgotten as one of the greatest booking mishaps of our age. Another fine example of them booking themselves into a corner and finding the absolute stupidest way out of it possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 The Roman/Braun feud was stellar. It did launch Braun to superstardom, and it was warranted. Those over-the-top, cartoonishly violent squashes also helped. But they made him feud with Lesnar for way too long, and he looks HORRIBLE on those matches, to the point where it seems painfully obvious that Brock straight up doesn't like him and is unwilling to show ass. By contrast, it almost seems like he put over Roman nicely, which is crazy. While making Strowman a hot act again is in theory an easy task - just have him do ridiculous feats of strength -, they have to get him really fucking far from Brock. The only dude who managed to look worse than him in that spot was Ambrose. On the other hand - I don't think the Big Show comparison is necessarily bad, nor it is unwarranted. Big Show did have some sweet title reigns, such as the ECW monster ace or the 2012 WHC run which was just incredible, but he could never have a long reign like AJ, Punk or Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Let's be honest, Braun has cooled off because he's been exposed. He can't cut long promos or work long singles matches, so there was always a limit to what could be done with him. Getting as hot as he did led to him being put in a position he wasn't ready for and made his limitations all the more apparent. And he can't do the strongman spots that got him over because he's been constantly injured. Pretty much every freakishly large guy's body turns on him eventually, and Braun being in so many gimmick matches has probably accelerated that process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: Let's be honest, Braun has cooled off because he's been exposed. He can't cut long promos or work long singles matches, so there was always a limit to what could be done with him. Getting as hot as he did led to him being put in a position he wasn't ready for and made his limitations all the more apparent. And he can't do the strongman spots that got him over because he's been constantly injured. Pretty much every freakishly large guy's body turns on him eventually, and Braun being in so many gimmick matches has probably accelerated that process. WWE can easily choose not to book him in long promos or long singles matches. It isn't really his fault that they try to squeeze everyone into their formula instead of accentuating what's unique about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 53 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: Let's be honest, Braun has cooled off because he's been exposed. He can't cut long promos or work long singles matches, so there was always a limit to what could be done with him. Getting as hot as he did led to him being put in a position he wasn't ready for and made his limitations all the more apparent. And he can't do the strongman spots that got him over because he's been constantly injured. Pretty much every freakishly large guy's body turns on him eventually, and Braun being in so many gimmick matches has probably accelerated that process. I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment either. Braun's worst matches, to me, were the WrestleMania tag with Nicholas, the "comedy" TLC match against Corbin last month, and the 2017 Survivors Series main event. My reasons are pretty simple: (1) he shouldn't be doing comedy matches and (2) even when he's a face, he shouldn't be buddying up to anybody because it takes away from his character too much. That Mania segment seemed like something Hillbilly Jim would've done, not a Monster Among Men, a one-man army who should be feared first and foremost, even when he's doing something heroic. The tags as a member of the Wyatt Family were unremarkable. Not terrible, but not noteworthy. He was also just coming onto the main roster during that run. His best bouts have definitely been the multi-man car-wrecks. The good news is that the WWE puts on at least 4-5 of those a year. He's been in some 4-ways, some 3-ways, some Survivors matches, a team-based TLC match, and an Elimination Chamber (I think?). He's very good at matches that involve furniture damage, set pieces getting destroyed, and lots of moving parts that enable him (and others) to take turns being the focal point of the match. It just so happens that, in today's WWE, those type of matches are headlining close to half of the Network Specials. In that sense, he's perfectly suitable to be a top guy. But what about those singles matches? His matches against Reigns, which I liked, all lasted at least 10 minutes and the Great Balls of Fire one lasted close to 20. He also had some fairly decent bouts against Big Show on RAW. But the match I think that was really most worth mentioning was the 10-minute challenge against Zayn. Against Lesnar, it just seems like these two guys can't find their groove, but there is only one Brock Lesnar on the WWE roster and there are like 12 Sami Zayns. What I mean is, we haven't really seen what a Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, even a Seth Rollins (my skin crawls to include him but I'll deal) could do against a Strowman. Sami Zayn got a good 10 minute match out of him. I think Mysterio could. If both guys were more over in their respective roles, I think Balor could do something fun with Strowman. Paired with the right agent helping out, I wouldn't be surprised if Almas, Velveteen Dream, Richochet, etc. could too down the line. To me, its still too early to say that Strowman can't wrestle a 12-15 minute match that would be really good if he was paired with the right guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Precisely. This constant WWE need for everyone to work the same is one of the biggest problems with the company in my opinion. In the early days of the Reigns backlash, if they had done less "suffering succotash" promo's and more Goldberg'esque silent, sudden ass beatings, I think they would have accomplished their #1 babyface goal. Braun Strowman doesn't need to be wrestling classics and giving monologues. Not that he can't necessarily, but he certainly shouldn't be every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Balor had great matches against Strowman just last year, and they actually formed a pretty fun tag - which is another angle that they could explore more some time in the future. To say that Strowman can't work long (as in 10-25 minutes) matches seems disigenuous. People used to say the same about Roman, that he gassed really quickly, and both statements are demonstrably untrue. IIRC there was a nice 2017 RAW match between Seth and Strowman which was pretty cool, too. Rollins was bouncing around for him and he couldn't do his stupid no-selling routine, so it was different and effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Braun needs to move to another territory for sure. Really interested where he lands on the Wrestlemania card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, rovert said: Braun needs to move to another territory for sure. Really interested where he lands on the Wrestlemania card. Jobbing to Drew I presume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaveri Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I can't think of any long singles match where Braun looked bad and he's had several really good ones. Don't think that's his problem at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Calling 10-15 minute matches long seems absurdly generous. Hell, Shane McMahon works longer than that. Has Braun ever worked a 20-plus minute straight singles match with no gimmicks? WWE produces so much content that a main eventer who can't do that on a regular basis is of limited value unless they can help the bottom line in some other way like Ronda helping with their TV deals. If the workaround for that is to stick him in gimmick matches every time out, his body's going to fall apart even faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: Calling 10-15 minute matches long seems absurdly generous. Hell, Shane McMahon works longer than that. Has Braun ever worked a 20-plus minute straight singles match with no gimmicks? WWE produces so much content that a main eventer who can't do that on a regular basis is of limited value unless they can help the bottom line in some other way like Ronda helping with their TV deals. If the workaround for that is to stick him in gimmick matches every time out, his body's going to fall apart even faster. What's the point of them signing every reputable smaller indy worker under the sun if they can't be used to carry a big guy to an entertaining 15 minute match? Bryan, AJ, Mysterio, Rollins, Balor and plenty of others should see that as their bread and butter. If Roman Reigns could make it work as a bigger guy than them, then there's no reason they can't do it too. Maybe Braun can't do 20-25 minute main event matches but why you'd want a near 7 foot monster in 25 minute matches is beyond me anyway. Not everyone should be a workrate guy and not every card should be filled with workrate matches. That run of sprints they did in 2017 was really refreshing for that reason. Having a big huge dude who you know isn't going to be in there long but it going to raise hell while he's there would be a great way to bring excitement and variety to the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I agree with above, booking Braun like he's Triple H or something is fucking stupid. He should be killing people in 2-12 minutes and cutting short promos if any at all. The WWE needs to stop trying to fit all of these square pegs in their round hound formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Let's be honest, Braun has cooled off because he's been exposed. He can't cut long promos or work long singles matches, so there was always a limit to what could be done with him. Getting as hot as he did led to him being put in a position he wasn't ready for and made his limitations all the more apparent. And he can't do the strongman spots that got him over because he's been constantly injured. Pretty much every freakishly large guy's body turns on him eventually, and Braun being in so many gimmick matches has probably accelerated that process. Agreed 100%. Exposed horribly this past Monday and I think they might finally lose faith in him after that, knowing how much WWE favors promos as a strong point for top guys. They've already Brock beat him twice, first in under ten minutes in 2017 then in under 5 minutes a few months ago... so not much interest in what else they will do at the Rumble but I'm beyond ready for Brock to move on to anyone else, Seth or whoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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