El-P Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said: And I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying WWE is the place to go for great matches. But it does seem to be their MO lately. Everything is about the matches for the sake of more matches. Every interview is centered around stealing the show and performing and yup. You guessed it. Having great matches. That's what I'm referring to. They're so lost in the woods when it comes to presenting things. Oh, ok, I did misunderstood you. But yeah, we agree it's a matter of booking and presenting things, leading to a general sense of complete dullness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, SomethingSavage said: Great post. All very good, valid points. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not yearning for the lumbering 80s ring style to come back anymore than I'm yearning for the sexual deviants of the Attitude Era to come back. But I would like to see things matter again, as they did in those eras. I would like to see characters again. I would like to hear guys speak with conviction in their promos again. The problem now is all their focus & energy goes into the shit that really doesn't matter much. It's all motion, zero emotion. All the focus is on having "great matches", with next to no emphasis on character development or story progression of any kind. It's working harder when you could be working smarter. They're having matches without context. Matches without subtext. Matches without meaning. Matches WITHOUT. Period. It's all very pointless. It's busy work, designed to kill time and little else. There are exceptions, but a lot of these workers just aren't very good - not at the things that matter. Sure. They're incredible athletes. But their understanding and grasp of the how's & why's simply aren't there. It's like they all admired and idolized the Shawn Michael's and Eddie Guerrero's growing up, but they never bothered to look beyond the surface of WHY those guys were so great in the first place. It's not just about a soaring crossbody or a spectacular moonsault. It's about the mounted punches you pepper in during a grudge match AS SOON as you pull off that move. It's about fire, urgency, and intensity to separate the moments that matter from the exhibitions you have every usual week on television. There's none of that variety or separation in today's landscape. Watch one Seth Rollins match and you've seen every Seth Rollins match. His title matches look no different than his grudge matches or his opening matches or his matches that are just thrown together to eat up time on television. They're all worked the exact same way. I don't care that the in-ring work was worse. Tell me I've got to watch three Saturday Night's Main Events or one episode of today's Raw, and I'm choosing the lumbering stuff from the 80s every single time & twice on Sunday. Ditto for the Attitude Era. As awful and off-putting as the late 90s looks today, I'd still rather watch a show where something actually happens over whateverthefuck it is they're doing today. And if we're talking 97/98 Raw then yeah. No comparison. This is a great point. Same for guys cosplaying 90s Kings Road without picking up on how important struggle, transitions and selling were to the style. I'm a huge Shawn Michaels fan but his "steal the show", "best performer", "give people their moneys worth" stuff was one of the worst things to happen to modern wrestling. He had the skills and smarts to generally pull it off but most modern guys simply don't. Instead of "I'm here to win/defend this title" or "I'm here to kill this guy", it's "I'm here to put on a great match". Yes I personally care about match quality, but the wrestlers acting like they do too instead of treating it like a competitive fight sort of defeats the purpose. I think that's one of the biggest reasons for the decline of wrestling match quality in 2010s. Another knock against Shawn's legacy is that shitty superkick trend the seemingly everyone has adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, goodhelmet said: This is my favorite story in the most recent Observer. A writer for the WWE just won an Emmy and it's considered a bad look to show it off. Amazing. They are not a wrestling company, they are an entertainment company. Except when someone actually has credentials in the legit entertainment world, then they are a wrestling company again. Except if you show you're a pro-wrestling fan, then they're an entertainment company... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, El-P said: Amazing. They are not a wrestling company, they are an entertainment company. Except when someone actually has credentials in the legit entertainment world, then they are a wrestling company again. Except if you show you're a pro-wrestling fan, then they're an entertainment company... Not to mention the cardinal sin of a company employee who doesn't face the public receiving and being proud of a prestigious award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 This story is hilarious because of course WWE backstage is full of petty, bitter pricks but also turning up to work with your award so you can set it on the table is such a strange and extra thing to do imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 Some of the things mentioned about wrestlers I think they get. Part of it is the micromanaged house style. Wrestlers are specifically told not to sell injuries from previous matches because "no one cares about that stuff". The style also isn't one that allows for a lot of long-term selling. Some of this started under Russo in the late 90s, oddly enough. He set a rule that no one could apply a hold longer than 30 seconds, because of the feeling that if channel flippers saw a match with wrestlers not moving around, they wouldn't stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, goodhelmet said: This is my favorite story in the most recent Observer. A writer for the WWE just won an Emmy and it's considered a bad look to show it off. I don't see how this makes WWE look bad. First of all, trying to pass off a Daytime Emmy as a real Emmy is lame as hell. That's the awards ceremony for crap like game shows and soap operas. But even if you won the Nobel Peace Prize, I'm sure bringing the award with you to a production meeting and putting it on the table would be considered bizarre in pretty much any workplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 In a typical writers' room, maybe not, I don't know. Why any writer with real achievements would want to work there surprises me. They don't even do credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 I've been reading a biography of Jack L Warner and the way he would use suspensions to extend contracts to prevent actors from going to other studios reminds me of WWE with the injury extensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 I see it as a dick move. I work at a pretty laid back company and if someone did what she did everyone around the table would be looking at them with a "WTF" expression on their face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 hours ago, El-P said: Amazing. They are not a wrestling company, they are an entertainment company. Except when someone actually has credentials in the legit entertainment world, then they are a wrestling company again. Except if you show you're a pro-wrestling fan, then they're an entertainment company... Tremendous post. Accurate af, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 6 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: I don't see how this makes WWE look bad. First of all, trying to pass off a Daytime Emmy as a real Emmy is lame as hell. That's the awards ceremony for crap like game shows and soap operas. But even if you won the Nobel Peace Prize, I'm sure bringing the award with you to a production meeting and putting it on the table would be considered bizarre in pretty much any workplace. Maybe, maybe not. We have been told for years that wrestling is a soap opera for men. You have an award winning writer on your staff. The correct response is to heap praise on the award winner and promote the shit out of your award winning staff for hiring purposes or publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Its a weird look to bring an award you received to a meeting, period. If I win a Hot Dog Eating Contest over the weekend, I'm not wearing the medal to my staff meeting on Monday...even if I work at a hot dog factory. That being said, it is also proper manners to congratulate a co-worker for an award they win and if there was any petty jealousy, that'd be equally lame. In response to Charles question, my guess is that she is a consulting producer/writer (?) and is not a full-time one just based on the fact that she won an award for a separate production she was involved in. Maybe something similar to what Freddie Prinze did where I don't think he was punching a timecard 5-days-a-week for the WWE, but was writing/producing/pitching ideas in more of a consultant role (compared to Gerwitz or Ryan Ward or Road Dogg or Russo, who were full-timers, and probably a bunch of other people I don't know the name of). So, for her, the money must be worth it or maybe she's a long-time fan or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 I bet that writer eventually gets promoted though. That seems like the kind of power play that Vince respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 14 hours ago, Mad Dog said: I see it as a dick move. I work at a pretty laid back company and if someone did what she did everyone around the table would be looking at them with a "WTF" expression on their face. That was exactly my thought as well. I mean I suppose it depends on the circumstances, but just looking at the bare notes from Dave, you could consider that as an attempt to show off or big time the other writers. This is something you put in your CV, maybe put it on a shelf in your office, but that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrzfn Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 There's probably a larger context here. If her ideas were shot down or dismissed at a previous meeting I feel like it would make more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Mad Dog said: I bet that writer eventually gets promoted though. That seems like the kind of power play that Vince respects.  That was kind of the thought I had, like the people she had heat with were low key worried Vince would love it since that's the exact drop-your-dick-on-the-table Alpha shit he pops for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Having now watched (most of) Raw, there was one small detail that really jumped out at me as a real issue. It was during Wyatt's Firefly Fun House which, I do believe, does a genuinely good job of being vaguely unsettling, even if there appears to be no wrestling pay-off to it. So, you have this laser-focused segment that should absolutely exist to be a distraction from the main show and to be something out of left field in the 3 hours you're giving them. So, what do WWE do? Halfway through the segment, they switch to a camera in the arena that is filming the Titan Tron so that the entire point of the skit is done and everyone who was momentarily distracted from the idea that this is a live show, oh my god honest, 1200 episodes pal, is swiftly reminded that it's just that. I'm assuming Bray's idea is that these segments are supposed to be alien, strange and divorced from the general tone and feel of a regular WWE broadcast. So what do they do? They switch camera angles IN A PRE-RECORDED SEGMENT to make sure it feels as identical as everything else. I'm no Wyatt fan but at some point, this is just self-sabotage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 It was a quick moment, but I thought it was a curious production choice as well. It was great when they used to do that to show the people singing along with The Rock, but it's always awkward when they do it under pretty much any other circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 I just randomly came across a clip of Mojo Rawley's new entrance and gimmick & whatnot. I'm not sure what in the actual fuck I just saw, but it... It wasn't good, y'all. It wasn't fit for television. It was awful. Embarrassingly bad. Like, sub-Ascension level embarrassing. Like, Mantaur level shameful. Glacier's long-ass entrance, complete with snow flurries and overly drawn-out karate thrusts, wasn't this cringe-worthy. I mean, the guy never had a particularly "good" act or anything. But oof. This was BAD. He's got to be thinking this is truly bottom of the barrel stuff. I legit felt bad for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 I noticed them doing that shot of the crowd watching the big screen from a couple of years ago, and it never looks good. Why would you want to draw attention to your live crowd standing around looking bored during your show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said: I noticed them doing that shot of the crowd watching the big screen from a couple of years ago, and it never looks good. Why would you want to draw attention to your live crowd standing around looking bored during your show? They became obsessed with crowd reaction shots after they caught that guy reacting to Taker losing at Mania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 Jesus, apparently they're running Undertaker vs Goldberg at MurderMania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 If 90s WCW was the unauthorized fanfic of 80s WWF, does that make the Saudi shows the unauthorized fanfic of 90s WWF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 So. The biggest "dream" nostalgia matches you'd see at Mania are now done to appeal to a guy who ordered the murder and dismemberement of a journalist. Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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