AEW Dynamite Week 3 - 16 October 2019

[NintendoLogic]

I think they have to do some kind of swerve with Cody/MJF. Everybody sees MJF turning on Cody from a mile away, and babyfaces who are easily hoodwinked tend to not stay over.

[C.S.]

17 minutes ago, goodhelmet said:

I have zero problems with a cowboy in wrestling... if they act like cowboys. I like Page as a wrestler but I don't look forward to his matches. 

With the bolded text being the key phrase.

I don't buy this guy as a cowboy for even a split second.

[goodhelmet]

To be fair, the mother fucker came out on a horse.  He has commitment. 

[Cobra Commander]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

I have a feeling the MJF turn will happen at Full Gear (even though it's too soon IMO because barely anything has been established on TV) and he'll join The Inner Circle.

if you're MJF, wouldn't it be a better 'business decision' to turn on Cody after he wins the title? Buddying up to somebody purely to be in position to step over him on the ladder would work better if you'd win a title for beating him. Probably a better short-term possibility to going for the belt than being one of Chris Jericho's buddies.

[FMKK]

5 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I think they have to do some kind of swerve with Cody/MJF. Everybody sees MJF turning on Cody from a mile away, and babyfaces who are easily hoodwinked tend to not stay over.

I feel like they need the storyline to develop more first and give MJF a reason to actually turn because right now there's no reason why he would want to give up his in with the Rhodes family.

[gordi]

Man, I sincerely hope that AEW have the patience to hold off on swerves and turns as much as possible. WWE's constant booking of """shocking """ swerves and heel turns and face turns has just taken all of the fun out of that. It's like having a "surprise" "twist" in a Sci-Fi movie or post-Sopranos TV show. If it happens all the f'n time, then there is nothing, absolutely nothing shocking, surprising, or entertaining about it. WWE swerves and turns are consistently boring and pointless these days. AEW needs to take a good hard look at how WWE does things and then not run their TV show that way.

When Michaels threw Jannetty through the Barbershop window, that was cool and memorable. These days, if a wrestler doesn't turn on their partner or betray their friend, it's a surprise. It's not memorable, it's not meaningful, and it's not entertaining. It's been beaten to death. 

 

 

Hold off on the would-be shocking twists for a good long while, play that card once or twice a year at most... then it might actually mean something again. 

[MoS]

12 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

I think his ringwork has taken a couple of steps back this year but the rest of his act is just top notch right now. He might be the best act in the United States right now.

At the risk of opening a can of worms, it's interesting to think, given his late career revival and I guess "post-prime" run, where he ranks amongst those regarded as all time great wrestlers like Shawn Michaels and Undertaker.

[Migs]

1 hour ago, gordi said:

Man, I sincerely hope that AEW have the patience to hold off on swerves and turns as much as possible. WWE's constant booking of """shocking """ swerves and heel turns and face turns has just taken all of the fun out of that. It's like having a "surprise" "twist" in a Sci-Fi movie or post-Sopranos TV show. If it happens all the f'n time, then there is nothing, absolutely nothing shocking, surprising, or entertaining about it. WWE swerves and turns are consistently boring and pointless these days. AEW needs to take a good hard look at how WWE does things and then not run their TV show that way.

When Michaels threw Jannetty through the Barbershop window, that was cool and memorable. These days, if a wrestler doesn't turn on their partner or betray their friend, it's a surprise. It's not memorable, it's not meaningful, and it's not entertaining. It's been beaten to death. 

 

 

Hold off on the would-be shocking twists for a good long while, play that card once or twice a year at most... then it might actually mean something again. 

I actually think that's one thing the Elite has excelled at - the Bullet Club war where it wasn't about turning but about the difficulties that exist within friendships (while always backing each other up against others) was so well done and unique. I trust them on where they are going with this MJF thing.

[Log]

Is Cornette talking about the Lucha Bros tag?  I thought it was as good as you could expect.  I get that Stunt doesn't look like he could hurt anyone.  And he actually didn't on his own the entire match.  Any offense of his that worked was assisted by his partner or inadvertently by his opponents.  When he attempted a move on his own, it was almost always caught. I think that's been a nice touch in his matches. 

I fell asleep during the show.  Not their fault.  I could've slept through a train rolling through my living room last night.  I woke up for the finish of the main event.  I like that they're keeping Darby strong.  It's cool that they're seeing that the crowd is getting behind him, and they're doing something with it.

Oh, and I did catch JR talking about being excited to go to Champaign, IL for their show.  As a University of Illinois alum, it was cool to hear him putting us over.  Also caught a quick shot of Cody in a U of I shirt during his video (which was excellent!).  Between that stuff and the I Think You Should Leave reference, it's like they're gearing this show specifically to me.

[C.S.]

10 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

if you're MJF, wouldn't it be a better 'business decision' to turn on Cody after he wins the title? Buddying up to somebody purely to be in position to step over him on the ladder would work better if you'd win a title for beating him. Probably a better short-term possibility to going for the belt than being one of Chris Jericho's buddies.

Agreed, but in wrestling, such logic rarely wins the day. I hope it does in this case though.

BTW, I love your username!

[El-P]

16 hours ago, FMKK said:

He's just decided that she's fucking Omega so he therefore has to hate her

Well, fuck Jim Cornette, for a start. I've defended him forever, but if he really went that route, well, he's an embarrassment with no excuse. Like @C.S. said, now that he's in the public (somewhat, don't get too crazy) eyes, he's just doing the NWA no favors with shit like his idiotic opinions on AEW, especially when you realize the first episode of NWA Powerrr got a bunch of viewers from AEW Dark, which means the hardcore AEW fans who also are interested in a show like NWA Powerrr apparently. Anyway, he's just making more noise and actually promoting AEW, so there you go. It's still sad.

Now that this is out of the way, how good has been AEW TV ? Well, now I actively want to watch a Jack Hager match, that's how good it has been.

Darby Allin truly has something unique about him. Some bits of underdog Mick Foley, some bits of Jeff Hardy is he ever was any kind of good worker and cool character. That whole last part of the match was batshit insane. 

Loved the tag match, truly the MOTN to me. When Mox flipped off Pac, there was something out of Stone Cold there. I agree Hangman is not a top player yet, but I really enjoy his work, those damn lariat are a thing of beauty. Omega is just awesome. And PAC finally gets shitloads of heat.

Dr. Baker is not ready to be put in this kind of spotlight. She looked lost as hell when she screwed up that spot early on, then she didn't look good at all (like, barely above IIconics level) until the finishing sequences, which were totally made by Riho. I did like that her finisher is something a dentist would do ! Yeah, she needs to be a heel. And they need to put Allie on TV, now. Maybe next week to fuck Dr. Baker's homecoming ? Riho is so getting over by just being her small, adorable, footstomping self, it's so cool to watch. Now she needs a real good worker to have that killer match she needs.

First match was very good, I hope SCU got into the finals, because Dark Order really don't work (I kinda dread their first real TV match). And the Lucha Brothers are just insanely good, especially Fenix. It's just a joy to watch these guys and they really made Jungle Jack (ok, I won't say anything bad about JR, but I really am not a fan of his work) and Marko Stunt look credible. The hate on Stunt is ridiculous, that match was fun, compelling and different. That's what you want. 

That Cody video was tremendous. Is Kevin Sullivan producing these (he was producing the IMPACT videos up until recently) ?

I like how patient they are too, not throwing tons of shit on TV. There are still a lot of characters who have not been truly featured yet, and that's cool. Also, you get a feeling of, gasp, LOGIC from week to week. Mox vs Pac ? Of course, makes sense. 

AEW fanboy, however you like. Just having a blast watching pro-wrestling at this time. Not bad after 29 years doing so and tons of down periods.

[Tetsujin]

To me, this was the worst of the three Dynamite shows yet. I only cared about the last tag match, which was worked wonderfully, and the last minutes of the main event because Darby is such a great underdog. But AEW has two big problems they have to work on:

1) Too much matches for a weekly tv show. They need more promos, segments and characters exhibitions in general, otherwise the fans will eventualy be burned out in the middle of the show. Last week they made a really good show, and the highlight was the Inner Circle promo. Do more stuff like that, or have Schiavone interview more people after matches, whatever.

 

2) The womens division. Idk if this is unpopular opinion or what, but Riho is so, so bad. Like, first Eva Marie run levels of bad. People are with her now because they're excited about everything AEW, the new big thing, has to offer, but if she doesn't learn how to wrestle is a matter of time fans turn on her. Also, Baker, Priestley, Rose... They have potential but they're not ready yet. Imo AEW needs for their womens division somebody they can rely on while building new stars slowly (like Jericho os doing with Page and Darby).

 

But seriously though, go watch Omega/Page vs Mox/PAC. Great tv match with great action, character moments, stories moving forward, and Hangman starting to look like the star they are building.

[Goodear]

16 hours ago, C.S. said:

With the bolded text being the key phrase.

I don't buy this guy as a cowboy for even a split second.

I think my main issue with Page is that the idea of a "Hangman" is an awesome character.  Page just doesn't live up to my head cannon because he's seemingly trying to fit in with the current crop of workers going back and forth and hitting stuff like shooting star presses.  It paradoxically reduces the character by increasing his in ring moveset.  He comes off like a guy dressed as a cowboy but it doesn't inform his performance.

 

[SirEdger]

4 hours ago, Log said:

Is Cornette talking about the Lucha Bros tag?  I thought it was as good as you could expect.  I get that Stunt doesn't look like he could hurt anyone.  And he actually didn't on his own the entire match.  Any offense of his that worked was assisted by his partner or inadvertently by his opponents.  When he attempted a move on his own, it was almost always caught. I think that's been a nice touch in his matches. 

I fell asleep during the show.  Not their fault.  I could've slept through a train rolling through my living room last night.  I woke up for the finish of the main event.  I like that they're keeping Darby strong.  It's cool that they're seeing that the crowd is getting behind him, and they're doing something with it.

Oh, and I did catch JR talking about being excited to go to Champaign, IL for their show.  As a University of Illinois alum, it was cool to hear him putting us over.  Also caught a quick shot of Cody in a U of I shirt during his video (which was excellent!).  Between that stuff and the I Think You Should Leave reference, it's like they're gearing this show specifically to me.

In AEW's defense, I don't know how they could've predicted that Luchasaurus would've torn his hamstring hours before the show and be forced to book Marko Stunt in there instead. Old school farts can complain all they want about the logics of having a Marko Stunt on a roster but where were they in Spike Dudley's prime? Marko will be their version of Spike Dudley; the guy that heels will use to throw around and destroy to get heel heat. And when Luchasaurus will come back to make the save, he will get a monstrous pop.

[sek69]

6 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

Idk if this is unpopular opinion or what, but Riho is so, so bad.

I'd say it's unpopular. Riho's not a techincal marvel but she connects with the crowd and has undeniable underdog babyface charisma. She drew the crowd into her matches two weeks in a row and made them come off better than they would be otherwise.

I think what kneecapped their women's division is that they clearly were going to have Kylie Rae in a key role, and then whatever happened went down, and it seemed to blow up whatever they had in mind.

[C.S.]

Riho hasn't impressed me at all. The women's division in AEW is the shits right now. Part of that is definitely because the obvious Dentist/Smiley Kylie direction had to be changed at the last minute after whatever happened with Kylie (insert Twitter conspiracy theories here). 

Marko Stunt, however, made me a believer. That match was fucking fun. What more do you want? And it's not like he did anything illogical or was portrayed as a world-beater. Far from it. He was used exactly the way he should have been. The Spike Dudley comparisons above are apt. 

[El-P]

Riho has something than you can't teach : she gets over. She's also actually really good (not great, but these days I guess "good" is an insult) as a pure worker, those fucking footstomps she pulls out of nowhere, just a thing of beauty, she's also quite explosive, as small as she is. And every time, she is getting that crowd. That's the main thing.

As far as the Spike Dudley comparisons, yeah, to a degree, but Spike Dudley kinda sucked, so, not really.

[sek69]

Someone (Bix maybe? I forget) pointed out that we've gone from "Push the Cruiserweights" to "X is too unbelievably small to be a wrestler it's ruining the biz".

Hell, they didn't even air the best part of the match, during a break Penta got on the mic and said Marko wasn't a Luchasaurus, he's a Babysaurus. 

Luchasaurus, Jungle Boy, and Marko being a human Russian Nesting Doll of awesome is one of the great parts of AEW.

[C.S.]

4 minutes ago, El-P said:

Riho has something than you can't teach : she gets over. She's also actually really good (not great, but these days I guess "good" is an insult) as a pure worker, those fucking footstomps she pulls out of nowhere, just a thing of beauty, she's also quite explosive, as small as she is. And every time, she is getting that crowd. That's the main thing.

 As far as the Spike Dudley comparisons, yeah, to a degree, but Spike Dudley kinda sucked, so, not really.

Everything you said about Riho applies doubly to Spike Dudley though - he knew how to get over, stay over, and was massively over (much more so than Riho, I'd argue). 

I'm not saying giving Riho the title was a bad move or anything - she is probably the best option they have right now - but yeah, it definitely feels like a "plans changed" situation. 

[El-P]

6 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Everything you said about Riho applies doubly to Spike Dudley though - he knew how to get over, stay over, and was massively over (much more so than Riho, I'd argue). 

Spike was a Paul E. booking one-trick poney. He also had one move that he was doing a zillion times and the rest was getting thrown around and fall off stuff. He also has a shitty character and was a crap promo. I could't stand Spike Dudley when I was doing my ECW complete watch a few years ago. Like, to the point of irrational hate !   Easily on my all-time least favorite workers ever list (well, then, have no idea how I would take him now).

9 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Someone (Bix maybe? I forget) pointed out that we've gone from "Push the Cruiserweights" to "X is too unbelievably small to be a wrestler it's ruining the biz".

20 years of not being able to push any cruiserweight to star status, including Rey Mysterio, by WWE will do that, I guess...

[C.S.]

3 minutes ago, El-P said:

Spike was a Paul E. booking one-trick poney.  

Paul E had zilch to do with his fun WWE run though. 

[goodhelmet]

Marko Stunt works as a lawn dart and as the little train who thinks he can but ultimately can't. He should never get any non-flying offense on another wrestler ever. He should never pin anyone in a non-tag setting or non-screwy fashion. He should only win in the holiest upsets of upsets where his opponent slips on a banana peel. This isn't a Rey Mysterio situation. I liked the tag match last night because they worked it the right way. If the Lucha Brothers were trading moves back and forth with Stunt, I would have been disappointed. 

 

EDIT: He should also not be booked like Spike Dudley. Spike was a "giant killer" in ECW. He was the little goof in WWE but given credible offense. In a sadistic way, Stunt should be the guy who gets beat up every time, he is touched by an opponent. 

[Coffey]

1 hour ago, Tetsujin said:

The womens division. Riho is so, so bad. Like, first Eva Marie run levels of bad. People are with her now because they're excited about everything AEW, the new big thing, has to offer, but if she doesn't learn how to wrestle is a matter of time fans turn on her. Also, Baker, Priestley, Rose... They have potential but they're not ready yet. Imo AEW needs for their womens division somebody they can rely on while building new stars slowly (like Jericho os doing with Page and Darby).

I don't know if I would say she's Eva Marie levels of bad, as Eva couldn't run the ropes or bump, but I'm also firmly in the Riho isn't good camp. I think the women's division is easily the worst part of the show & I think it's actively going to hurt AEW.

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

I'd say it's unpopular. Riho's not a technical marvel but she connects with the crowd and has undeniable underdog babyface charisma. She drew the crowd into her matches two weeks in a row and made them come off better than they would be otherwise.

What on the first few AEW shows have the rabid fans not accepted though? They're accepting everything right now, even the stuff that isn't good, like The Librarians. 

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

I'm not saying giving Riho the title was a bad move or anything - she is probably the best option they have right now - but yeah, it definitely feels like a "plans changed" situation. 

This goes back to my "why did AEW need a women's division from the jump?" point when they very obviously don't have the roster for it. I think Riho was the wrong person but I also think Nyla would have been wrong which is why I was against the title match being Nyla Vs. Riho. Even a part-time Awesome Kong would have been better... Or, best case scenario, as I've said before, wait a few months, build the division up & then introduce the title.

[goodhelmet]

I disagree with you on a few things. Riho's charisma is what is carrying her through these matches. Sometimes, charisma is enough. 

I don't think the crowd is accepting everything. To be fair, there hasn't been anything on the TV shows, so far, that should get a negative response. The booking has been logical. The matches have been fun/good/great. The wrestlers all feel big league... definitely more impressive than about 60% of the roster that WCW would throw out there during their peak to fill up TV time. As far as TV goes, they have done everything right. Next week's debut of the Dark Order will really be the true test of your statement. 

I agree that the women are the weak part of the show but not in an "embarrassed to be a wrestling fan" sort of way. There are so many times in WWE's history where the women were the piss break because they either a. sucked or b. complete apathy. AEW doesn't have a strong division but it isn't the nadir of women's wrestling either. Hell, at this point, WWE isn't having great women's matches either (on the main roster anyway). 

[Stiva]

1.014 million for last night's Dynamite. Staying just about level while NXT continues to drop. They're taking an early lead.