The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

[clintthecrippler]

Cornette ripping on Omega and the Young Bucks has somehow become even more overused than the YB's Superkicks that he criticizes.

Highspots put a bunch of the Kayfabe Commentaries library up on their streaming service. That includes Cornette's Back to the Territories series. I roll my eyes at Cornette's rants on modern wrestling but love to hear him discuss history and anything pre-1995, but he's at the point where he HAS to spam his barbs in during that stuff now.

He was doing a Back to the Territories with Bill Eadie on Georgia Championship Wrestling and just had to squeeze in a shot at the Young Bucks there. Like seriously, the Young Bucks have nothing to do with early 80s GCW but Cornette couldn't go 90 minutes without shoving that in. 

[SomethingSavage]

Amazing.

People here are criticizing Corny for being over the top about the things he hates. In turn, they're so triggered and mad that they're literally attempting to diagnose the guy with dementia. Incredible.

Who's getting all worked up again?

It's amusing to me that modern wrestling fans are so adverse to admitting they can be worked, that they'd rather insist that a lifelong worker has "worked themselves into a shoot" than admit that the fans themselves are actually being worked.

Which. Is. Your. Role.

You're fans. We're all fans. We are supposed to sit back and be worked into feeling certain ways sometimes. I understand everyone has delusions of being the ultimate critic or the next Dave, but fuck that noise. We're fans. It's okay to be worked. I don't know why everyone bashes Corny for working his own angles to keep his shit relevant. It's absurd. You're a fan. You're meant to be worked.

This arms race in which all wrestling fans are trying too hard to be the smartest person in the room is obnoxious and off-putting. Be a fan.

Of course Corny is going to be outrageous, be controversial, and be exaggerated in expressing himself. The guy is a lifer. He gets the deal.

[FMKK]

4 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

Amazing.

People here are criticizing Corny for being over the top about the things he hates. In turn, they're so triggered and mad that they're literally attempting to diagnose the guy with dementia. Incredible.

Who's getting all worked up again?

It's amusing to me that modern wrestling fans are so adverse to admitting they can be worked, that they'd rather insist that a lifelong worker has "worked themselves into a shoot" than admit that the fans themselves are actually being worked.

If he's falling out with real life friends over it then he is working himself into a shoot because his act is having a detrimental impact on his life. Fine. His choice. But I hate this idea that any time Cornette says something stupid he's just working us all because he's such a smart worker as opposed to being someone who has a track record of allowing his temper to negatively impact his life and career.

[SomethingSavage]

27 minutes ago, FMKK said:

If he's falling out with real life friends over it then he is working himself into a shoot because his act is having a detrimental impact on his life. Fine. His choice. But I hate this idea that any time Cornette says something stupid he's just working us all because he's such a smart worker as opposed to being someone who has a track record of allowing his temper to negatively impact his life and career.

You're right.

Clearly classic symptoms of dementia, am I right? 

[MoS]

The dementia diagnosis was absolutely unnecessary and C.S has himself accepted that. Cornette might be a lifer who is amazing at working the marks, but he is also someone whose opinion on modern wrestling is looking increasingly out-of-touch and out-dated. Which is fine - I don't like Omega or the Young Bucks. But when the only defence for ranting is "He's just working the marks", then you are basically being Vince Russo on the internet, another person Corny famously despises. Getting into fights with everyone who does not think Omega wrestling a 9-year old is the end of wrestling is immature and juvenile. Saying that he wishes that wrestling would die if this is what it has become makes him look sad.

To be fair to Cornette though, while him saying "People in Japan like weird shit, that would never draw here" is ludicrous and palpably stupid, Meltzer acting like anyone who does not realise that Okada-Omega matches are high works of art is just not smart enough to understand psychology or storytelling and is obviously wrong is also annoying. It is still possible to think Hashimoto was a better ace than either Tanahashi or Okada and not be completely wrong or out of touch or blinded in hatred or whatever Dave says whenever someone disses on the NJPW guys.

 

 

......especially cuz it is true.. Hash is awesome and NJPW hasn't found anyone close to his level yet. 

[FMKK]

2 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

You're right.

Clearly classic symptoms of dementia, am I right? 

I'm nothing to do with the dementia thing. But I don't think Cornette is just some great worker who's pulling the wool over the eyes of all the marks or whatever.

[Big Pete]

The kicker is that Jim often cites Richards/Black from Ring of Honor circa 2010 as the modern equivalent of Flair/Steamboat.

 

[C.S.]

5 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

Amazing.

People here are criticizing Corny for being over the top about the things he hates. In turn, they're so triggered and mad that they're literally attempting to diagnose the guy with dementia. Incredible. 

You've just exposed yourself as someone who didn't bother to read my post. You just wanted an excuse to rant like your hero. You're better than this and one of the best posters here, so act like it.

#FUCK

I already admitted diagnosing him over the internet wasn't a good idea. With that being said, my reasons weren't because of his "controversial wrestling opinions" on Twitter (I don't follow him) or on his podcast (I don't listen to it or care about it).

Go back and actually read what I wrote.  

[Blehschmidt]

The other problem with the "Cornette is just working" talk, is that usually when you are "working" the other people involved are part of the work.

I don't think Joey Ryan, or The Young Bucks, or Dave Meltzer, or Kenny Omega are in on it.

 

I don't disagree with Cornette about this latest thing. Flair/Steamboat is timeless, while Omega/Okada will likely be forgotten the next time a 7 star classic happens. But the toxic attitude, whether work or shoot has gotten over the top. If you hate modern wrestling, stop paying attention to it, and talk about what you love. Life is too fucking short to be that pissed off.

 

 

[MoS]

Also, what is the #FUCK hashtag thing about

[Coffey]

If anything, I think the Okada/Omega matches say more about how great Okada is than how great Omega is. Outside of his matches with Okada, Omega has pretty much come off as a comedy wrestler. He ain't done shit in AEW so far. Meanwhile Okada is still having amazing matches on damn near every PPV. Both his matches this year at Wrestle Kingdom, against Naito & Ibushi, were better than anything Omega has done since his matches with Okada.

EDIT: I remembered he did the AEW PPV match with Moxley - the hardcore thing where he did a 450 on the uncovered mat wood. 

[FMKK]

For my money, Omega had great matches with Naito, Goto, Ishii, ZSJ and Jericho in his NJPW run. Lots of people were high on the Tanahashi match from the 2019 Wrestle Kingdom as well (I don't think I've seen it the whole way through.

[kas]

There's a reason Omega had a lot of hype coming into AEW and it's not just from the Okada series. His series of matches with Ishii, Naito, and Tanahashi all also received a lot of acclaim along with a lot of stellar one-off matches such as the Jericho, Ibushi, and Goto matches just to name a few.

[Migs]

Okada's a more consistent worker because, like Flair, he's great at plugging guys into a structure and adapting to fit the story and opponent. Omega tends to take bigger, weirder swings - while they frequently pay off, they don't always (I think Golden Lovers-Young Bucks is basically perfect dramatic storytelling, but the match with Cody two weeks later veered into melodrama and didn't totally succeed).

[The Thread Killer]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:39 AM, FMKK said:

If he's falling out with real life friends over it then he is working himself into a shoot because his act is having a detrimental impact on his life. Fine. His choice. But I hate this idea that any time Cornette says something stupid he's just working us all because he's such a smart worker as opposed to being someone who has a track record of allowing his temper to negatively impact his life and career.

You're not wrong about his temper affecting him, but I don't think is a new phenomenon or that it's getting noticeably worse.  It's getting reported more, especially as he makes enemies out of modern Pro Wrestling fans who want him "cancelled."  But at his core, I think he's pretty much always been like this. It's just now he has a podcast and uses Twitter, so his ridiculous temper is on public display for all to see.

Like I said earlier, Cornette is unquestionably an asshole and his temper is legendary.  But I also don't know that his temper has negatively affected his career. After the whole NWA Power/Fried Chicken Joke fiasco, one of the popular talking points going around on social media was that Cornette had been fired rather than quitting, or just what you said...that his temper and bombastic outbursts had negatively affected his career. On an episode of the Drive-Thru (#116 back in November) by way of a rebuttal he actually went through his entire career job by job and listed what jobs he's been fired from and which jobs he'd quit.  The "fired" list is actually a lot shorter than I would have expected, considering his history. I would think his getting fired by WWE for slapping Santino Marella was probably the worst example of his temper costing him work.

As far as the effect of his temper on his personal life? He's admitted in the past that he's on medication for his temper...at one point they had him on Lithium which is no joke.  Now I think he's on some other form of anti-anxiety medication, he's mentioned it but I forget which one. Most Pro Wrestling fans have heard or seen the infamous Dairy Queen video, which has become legendary.  Hell, on the Drive-Thru this week, Cornette tells a story about how his wife Stacy wanted to make some potato salad, so she went to the local convenience store and bought a jar of mayonnaise. (First mistake.)  She made the potato salad and when they ate it, the discovered that it tasted terrible, so they looked and discovered that the mayo was expired.  Cornette's wife went back to the store to get her money back.  The clerk in the store refused to give Mrs. Cornette her money back.  She went home and told Jim, who grabbed the jar of mayo, returned to the store and asked for his money back.  The manager refused to refund the money, so Cornette ended up picking up the "Take-A-Penny-Leave-A-Penny" tray and literally chucked it at the guy's head.  The story is actually really funny, as are most of Cornette's stories...but it's pretty clear that if the story is true (and I believe that it is) then Cornette continues to have problems with a seriously short fuse.

 

On 2/5/2020 at 12:56 PM, C.S. said:

I already admitted diagnosing him over the internet wasn't a good idea. With that being said, my reasons weren't because of his "controversial wrestling opinions" on Twitter (I don't follow him) or on his podcast (I don't listen to it or care about it).

That is one of the things that bugs me about how people react to Cornette.  I'm not specifically talking about you @C.S., and I'm not singling you out. But a lot of people tend to judge Jim Cornette on the whole based on things they've "heard." Hell, I have a very good friend who is a hardcore AEW mark.  He has some peripheral connections to the Pro Wrestling business, and as a result has had occasion to meet several of the Pro Wrestlers who are Cornette's usual targets.  I wouldn't say he is "friends" with them, but they've socialized.  For example my friend has had dinner with Joey Ryan.  So naturally, whenever I mention Cornette or something he said, my friend freaks out and goes on and on about what a great guy Joey Ryan is, and how Cornette is an out of touch asshole who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.  My friend doesn't ever listen to either of Cornette's podcasts, but he's one of the first ones to react to re-tweets or stuff reported on "newz" sites about Cornette.  On the most recent episode of the Jim Cornette Experience, Cornette actually praised AEW and said their show was better than NXT last week. My friend barely believed me, because he bases all of his opinions on Cornette on stuff he reads online, and I think he was under the impression that Cornette blindly hates AEW and won't say anything positive about them at all...and that his entire shows are based around nothing but bashing modern wrestling.  That's just not true, but that's the impression you get from a lot of people who don't actually know what he's talking about.

Now of course, I'm not saying that if you already don't like Cornette that you should listen to his podcast.  That would be stupid.  For example, I can't stand Vince Russo so I would never, ever listen to his podcast, no matter what.  Having said that, I don't think you can judge somebody as a whole, based on specifically selected comments they've made or especially by things they've said on Twitter. People who are predisposed to hate Jim Cornette and everything he stands for have been known to go out of their way to comb through every thing he's ever said or done, just looking for ammunition to help "cancel" him. Imagine if people judged Dave Meltzer solely based on his Twitter feed?  People would look at him a lot differently. My point still is that if you solely base your opinion on what you read online, and you've never actually heard him talk, you come away with the impression that Cornette does nothing but scream insults at AEW for two hours every week.  He does do that, but he does a lot of other stuff too...he is actually quite constructive in some of his criticisms of the modern product and most importantly, a lot of his criticism is 100% spot on...especially when it comes to stuff like booking continuity and the technical aspects of formatting a weekly Pro Wrestling show for television.  But nobody ever focuses on that stuff, they just isolate the insults and report them.  As a result, you get a picture of Jim Cornette that is either badly skewed or in some cases factually inaccurate.

Cornette frequently irritates the hell out of me, but he does represent the opinion of a lot of old school Pro Wrestling fans and in a lot of cases when he is talking about certain aspects of modern Pro Wrestling, he's quite accurate in his criticisms.

[WrestlingPower]

I don't think he wants AEW to fail and I think he does go a bit too hard on them at times, but there is something that I think he hits on that is a legitimate thing to discuss.  HIs big deal is that AEW can't expand their audience doing what they are doing.  Yes, he does lack respect for their 900k viewers and what their preferred style of wrestling is, but the issue here is what could they be doing better to reach more than the 900K.  I've been thinking lately that they are playing too much to their audience and just trying to give their audience more of what they like.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing but AEW has this platform locked up for several years, they need to take this opportunity to take the fanbase they have, and re-educate them a bit, to break their mindsets of how Vince has done things for all these years, etc.  But by and large it appears to me that AEW is content playing to their base and satisfying them rather than looking for ways to move things in a different direction away from some of the comedy/light-hearted bullshit and more to the PWG style show that I think most think was promised when they started.  That may not expand the base much either, but doing WWE-lite type stuff isn't trying to break the mold.  Maybe Jim hasn't been explicit with spelling that out, but ultimately that's what I feel he's hitting on.

[sek69]

The problem is even when Jim makes valid points (and he frequently does), it gets lost in the avalanche of nonsense he spews. It makes you not want to consider any of his points because he's being obnoxious when he makes them. 

Not to mention besides everything else, he comes off as softer than baby poop at the slightest of criticism. I've not always agreed with Bix and/or his views of everything, but Jim going on a personal attack and sending his Twitter mob to attack based on an unflattering photo of him was some real bullshit. Going after someone's looks is some grade A "gotten to" material and made him look like a petty ass teenager jilted by an ex. 

[joeg]

Cornette discussion always makes me think of this

[cm funk]

Jim went on an unhinged rant about Bix on the latest Experience.  I thought Bix and Last were friends but Last didn't say a word in his defense.

[sek69]

34 minutes ago, cm funk said:

Jim went on an unhinged rant about Bix on the latest Experience.  I thought Bix and Last were friends but Last didn't say a word in his defense.

Bix was pointing out that Jim constantly saying Meltzer "sucks Kenny's dick" could be considered homophobic, which seems to have sent him into a tizzy. It's what I was referring to earlier about Jim sending his followers to attack Bix's appearance.

 

[Bix]

4 hours ago, sek69 said:

Bix was pointing out that Jim constantly saying Meltzer "sucks Kenny's dick" could be considered homophobic, which seems to have sent him into a tizzy. It's what I was referring to earlier about Jim sending his followers to attack Bix's appearance.

 

Basically it looks like he specific tweet in question that set him off was when I took issue with one addressed to Meltzer that said "you know he [Omega] sucks Dave, and I guess you do to[o]." Someone asked me pretty late at at night if Cornette had replied to a specific Dave tweet, so I said yes, he did, and I included a screenshot of that Cornette tweet. What i said was that in the context of the stuff he'd been retweeting in following several hours, it seemed like he was calling Dave "'gay' for" Omega. (He kept retweeting badly made memes of Omega and Meltzer in love, Omega and Meltzer as female anime characters, etc.) My conclusion was drawn mostly from the subsequent retweets, but also the missing comma and "I guess you do, too" being an odd turn of phrase, which made it read more literally to me. How much it being after 11 pm by that point played in my conclusion, I had no idea. By the next morning, a few people politely too issue with my conclusion and I said that yeah, maybe that specific tweet was not meant in any kind of homophobic way. (Even if the didn't change much in the grand scheme of things given Jim's other rhetoric like the retweets, constantly using the word "sissy" to refer to Omega, am LGBTQ wrestler, repeatedly trying to smear Omega as a pedophile—a common bullshit negative stereotype of LGBTQ people, more broadly the fact that "dicklicker" is one of his go to insults, etc.)

I had blocked Jim on Twitter several weeks ago after the weird interaction with Bruce Mitchell where he...accused Bruce of taking bribes to change his opinions? Or secretly working for a wrestling promotion? Or something? Then he got angry at me for asking and acted like I couldn't know what he was talking and because I wasn't old enough so to stay out of it. He was clearly full of it and just going after Bruce for no reason, so I got fed up and blocked him.

Someone I guess snitch tagged him on the discussion about the Meltzer back and forth, at which time he saw he was blocked and I guess someone else sent him a screenshot. A screenshot that, by then, would have to include my follow ups if the person was being intellectually honest. (LOL.) He got angry that I wasn't "saying it to his face" but that was the end of it for over a week, so I'm still not sure what set him off the other day. And I don't know if he ever saw the "OK, maybe not" follow ups.

Obviously, even setting aside everything else, he's a hypocrite about the blocking thing since he blocks tons of people he findals toxic or full of shit. He's a public figure in wresting and I cover wrestling, am I just supposed to not talk about someone if I have them blocked or tag them any time I mention them? Never mind that he also claims to only block fans, "not outlaw mud show wrestlers," only to repeatedly block wrestlers he rants about. (Joey Janela was one, IIRC.)

Itv really did seem like getting out of the wrestling meat grinder had chilled him out and greatly reduced his issues for a long time. But the brain worms—over AEW, I guess, as dumb as it is—have regressed him to the guy who threatened to shoot Wade Keller, explained that he had to use the N word because he was in a "cuss fight," gleefully brags about trying to murder Terry Landel in a hit and run, tried to find Bruce Mitchell during an SMW show so he could beat him up right there in the crowd, said horrible racist things to Wade's mom, etc etc.

It sucks, and it sucks even more that he's developed such a weird ride or die cult of personality around him. Especially Brian and Travis.

[sek69]

17 minutes ago, Bix said:

Someone I guess snitch tagged him on the discussion about the Meltzer back and forth, at which time he saw he was blocked and I guess someone else sent him a screenshot.

Any time anyone on twitter mentions Cornette or even slightly alludes to him, hordes of his fans snitch tag him to see the reaction it gets. It's really the worst thing that's been introduced to Wrestling Twitter and that says a lot. 

All the obvious problematic stuff aside for a moment, it is kind of said that a lot of his audience just seems to get off on watching the old wrestling man have a hissyfit more than anything else. Like it could be anyone in that position but it just happens to be Cornette because he's Extremely Online now. 

[Bix]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Any time anyone on twitter mentions Cornette or even slightly alludes to him, hordes of his fans snitch tag him to see the reaction it gets. It's really the worst thing that's been introduced to Wrestling Twitter and that says a lot. 

All the obvious problematic stuff aside for a moment, it is kind of said that a lot of his audience just seems to get off on watching the old wrestling man have a hissyfit more than anything else. Like it could be anyone in that position but it just happens to be Cornette because he's Extremely Online now. 

Is he really *that* online? By the standards of a territorial wrestling star, sure. But otherwise? I think back to a week or two ago where someone on Twitter called him a racist, he noticed that the guy (no idea of he was trans or an ally showing solidarity) had his preferred pronouns in his profile (he/him), and Jim went off on how the guy must have done that because he needed to remind himself and "couldn't find his peepee." Something like that. With the direction that he's been trending, would I be shocked if he knew what he was doing? No, of course not. But it's probably just as likely that he had no clue why the guy's profile said "he/him" and saw it was ripe for an insult. Now, should someone in 2020 have at least a sneaking suspicion why that is? Yes, of course. But by way of being in the bubble, not going anywhere online that his wife isn't setting up for him, etc., he's not gonna learn anything by osmosis, either.

[Beast]

28 minutes ago, Bix said:

Is he really *that* online? By the standards of a territorial wrestling star, sure. But otherwise? I think back to a week or two ago where someone on Twitter called him a racist, he noticed that the guy (no idea of he was trans or an ally showing solidarity) had his preferred pronouns in his profile (he/him), and Jim went off on how the guy must have done that because he needed to remind himself and "couldn't find his peepee." Something like that. With the direction that he's been trending, would I be shocked if he knew what he was doing? No, of course not. But it's probably just as likely that he had no clue why the guy's profile said "he/him" and saw it was ripe for an insult. Now, should someone in 2020 have at least a sneaking suspicion why that is? Yes, of course. But by way of being in the bubble, not going anywhere online that his wife isn't setting up for him, etc., he's not gonna learn anything by osmosis, either.

What's the deal with Brian Last and Cornette? You and Brian started 605 together and even though you left, it didn't seem like there was any bad blood, I just assumed you got too busy. 

Seems like Brian's let his podcast success go to his head or something. Kinda inexcusable for him to sit back while Cornette sics his fanbase on Bix. I'd already found his attacks on Janela to be over the line. Either Brian's "playing a character" or he feels it's appropriate to rag on modern day guys using 1985 logic. Either way is sad.

[The Thread Killer]

8 hours ago, cm funk said:

I thought Bix and Last were friends but Last didn't say a word in his defense.

 

17 minutes ago, Beast said:

What's the deal with Brian Last and Cornette? You and Brian started 605 together and even though you left, it didn't seem like there was any bad blood, I just assumed you got too busy. Seems like Brian's let his podcast success go to his head or something. Kinda inexcusable for him to sit back while Cornette sics his fanbase on Bix.

I thought that was really weird too.  During Cornette's entire rant, Brian Last didn't utter a word.  And it's not like Brian Last is afraid to disagree with or contradict Cornette when Cornette says something he disagrees with. He does that all the time, but this time he was conspicuously silent.