The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

[FMKK]

There's an irony to all this. More and more of Cornette's show has been taken up by AEW and more and more of his AEW commentary has become frothing at the mouth. How many times has he threatened to stop watching it? Really, Jim has become a podcasting spot monkey.

[World's Worst Man]

Who are these rabid Cornette fans/AEW-haters anyway? Are they people who used to watch JCP in the 80's and have sworn off anything since then? Are they simply WWE fanboys of the ilk that seems to make up a lot of the anti-AEW segment on r/SC?

I can kinda sorta empathize with the idea that it's frustrating that modern tastes have pushed pro-wrestling into something that is no longer palatable. Gross intolerance and belligerence certainly isn't justified though. And there's always old footage, probably enough to last a lifetime if one was so inclined.

[Loss]

I saw a video of Cornette reacting to the FTR debut on my YouTube recommendations today and was immediately annoyed. He said he was swearing off AEW after the Stadium Stampede. I would like to hear his explanation for why he isn't.

[The Thread Killer]

32 minutes ago, Loss said:

I saw a video of Cornette reacting to the FTR debut on my YouTube recommendations today and was immediately annoyed. He said he was swearing off AEW after the Stadium Stampede. I would like to hear his explanation for why he isn't.

If it's the clip from this past week on The Jim Cornette Experience, Cornette says that he has been asked by a lot of people if he'd seen the FTR debut, but he says he did not, because he isn't going to watch and review AEW anymore.  Brian Last explains how the debut went, and it actually turned into an interesting discussion regarding the best ways to make an impactful debut in modern Pro Wrestling and some of the best debuts over the years.  Of course...Cornette being Cornette, he complains that it's impossible to make a surprising or impactful debut in modern Pro Wrestling because nothing is special anymore and everybody and everything has been overexposed and overdone...but the overall discussion is interesting nonetheless. But the point is, no...Cornette did not watch Dynamite this past week.

As an aside, apparently FTR are actually going to be Cornette's guests on The Jim Cornette Experience this Friday.  That should be interesting, for a variety of reasons.

[The Thread Killer]

5 hours ago, World's Worst Man said:

Who are these rabid Cornette fans/AEW-haters anyway? Are they people who used to watch JCP in the 80's and have sworn off anything since then? Are they simply WWE fanboys of the ilk that seems to make up a lot of the anti-AEW segment on r/SC?

I am thinking it's more the former rather than the latter. I don't think Cornette's anti-AEW fans are current WWE fans, because he rips into WWE almost as much as he does AEW.

[Dewar]

Jim swore off of Wendy's today because the owner is a massive Trump supporter. And you all said he wasn't capable of changing.

[Mad Dog]

On 6/1/2020 at 4:36 PM, The Thread Killer said:

If it's the clip from this past week on The Jim Cornette Experience, Cornette says that he has been asked by a lot of people if he'd seen the FTR debut, but he says he did not, because he isn't going to watch and review AEW anymore.  Brian Last explains how the debut went, and it actually turned into an interesting discussion regarding the best ways to make an impactful debut in modern Pro Wrestling and some of the best debuts over the years.  Of course...Cornette being Cornette, he complains that it's impossible to make a surprising or impactful debut in modern Pro Wrestling because nothing is special anymore and everybody and everything has been overexposed and overdone...but the overall discussion is interesting nonetheless. But the point is, no...Cornette did not watch Dynamite this past week.

As an aside, apparently FTR are actually going to be Cornette's guests on The Jim Cornette Experience this Friday.  That should be interesting, for a variety of reasons.

See, I think he is way off on impactful debuts and I think it shows his general ignorance of the modern scene. I think AJ Styles is a great example of an impactful debut in the WWE this past decade. Jon Moxley is also another good example of a debut that probably made AEW.

I also think these are some big rose colored glasses on his part. Even in the 1980s and 1990s, big time debuts that were going to move the needle were kind of few and far between. For all of those great ones like Hall and Nash in WCW or Hogan in WWF, there are dozens and dozens that were essentially meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[sek69]

I would kind of agree that it's hard to make a surprising debut nowadays since more people (and certainly a lot of AEW's base) are far more aware of who's coming and going than back in the day. 

Impactful is another story. I would say both Jericho and Moxley's debuts were impactful and helped both their own careers and their company's prospects. 

[Stiva]

I think Brodie Lee’s debut would have been a much more impactful moment had there been a crowd too. 

[The Thread Killer]

So did anybody hear Cornette's interview/lovefest with FTR?  I thought it was a pretty good interview, although the last few minutes they were clearly working...which I was somewhat surprised that Cornette went along with.  I guess he really does like those guys, because I don't believe for a minute that there is legit heat between FTR and The Young Bucks, or that FTR is working on a handshake agreement and haven't signed contracts yet. The line about the proof that they hadn't signed with AEW officially is the fact that they were appearing on Cornette's podcast did crack me up. I found a couple of FTR's stories pretty revealing, especially about Ricky Morton getting ignored when he was a guest trainer at the PC, and all the members of the Kliq (minus Sean Waltman) totally ignoring them and treating The Revival like glorified enhancement talent at Raw 25.

I also found it interesting that Harwood has clearly gotten his hands on a number of @goodhelmet's DVD sets.

[C.S.]

50 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

I found a couple of FTR's stories pretty revealing, especially about Ricky Morton getting ignored when he was a guest trainer at the PC, and all the members of the Kliq (minus Sean Waltman) totally ignoring them and treating The Revival like glorified enhancement talent at Raw 25. 

I haven't listened, so can you clarify these points? Thanks.

Ricky Morton was ignored by who? The other PC wrestlers? The Kliq?

The Kliq (minus Waltman) ignored The Revival or Morton?

How were The Revival treated as enhancement talent at Raw 25? Was there the usual "old fading stars bury younger talent" segment (I can't remember, because all of these shows are so bad and interchangeable), or did they mean behind-the-scenes?

[Loss]

Obviously HHH and Shawn wouldn't treat them like that since they work with them regularly, and they said Waltman didn't. So it sounds like it was just Hall and Nash.

The story was that Ricky Morton was a guest trainer for a day at the Performance Center and ended up spending a lot of the day by himself because no one had any questions for him or made it a point to talk to him, which is indeed pretty shitty if that's how it went down.

[The Thread Killer]

14 hours ago, C.S. said:

I haven't listened, so can you clarify these points? Thanks.

Ricky Morton was ignored by who? The other PC wrestlers? The Kliq?

The Kliq (minus Waltman) ignored The Revival or Morton?

How were The Revival treated as enhancement talent at Raw 25? Was there the usual "old fading stars bury younger talent" segment (I can't remember, because all of these shows are so bad and interchangeable), or did they mean behind-the-scenes?

Here is the basic gist of the interview, as I best remember it.

- Cornette put FTR over huge for being a Tag Team that actually "gets it" and understands the nuances of Tag Team wrestling.  He asked them why it came so easily to them when other modern Tag Teams couldn't seem to figure the basics of Tag Team wrestling out.

- Harwood countered that it actually didn't come easily to them, that they had spent hours studying the classic Tag Teams of the 80's.  Harwood mentioned a multiple disc set he had featuring the Midnight Express and he also mentioned studying a DVD set of the Rock & Roll Express as well.  FTR talked about how they tried to learn something for all the successful Tag Teams of the past. Cornette joked that if you steal one move you're ripping somebody off, but if you take something from a lot of different people, you're doing research.

- FTR talked about their work ethic as well.  They claimed that when they were in NXT, it wasn't uncommon for some talent to want to work shorter matches at the house shows.  For example, some talents would be told they had to work 20 minutes but would only want to go 10.  FTR said they would always take the extra time for their matches if it was offered, because they wanted to work.  They later talked about how they loved working so much that even though they weren't always featured on TV, they worked so many house shows that they had the second most appearances and ring time of any act in WWE in 2019.  They had worked so much that they had exceeded their guarantee, which ended up hurting them when they asked for their release, because they'd already made their guaranteed minimum.  As a result, when they got sent home for refusing to sign new contracts, they didn't get paid for three months.

- Cornette and FTR put over the series of matches with American Alpha, huge.  FTR talked about how when they were doing a loop of house shows, they wouldn't just have the exact same match every night like some acts do, but they would put in the effort to have a different match every night. They claimed that Matt Bloom was vocally appreciative of that fact. They also spoke fondly of their matches with DIY.  They discussed the fact that prior to their popular 2/3 falls match with DIY at Takeover: Toronto, Wheeler hadn't actually worked in weeks due to a knee injury but nobody knew that.

- Overall, they spoke very fondly of their time in NXT.

- They seemed to feel that not too long after they got "called up" to the Main Roster that things weren't going to work out for them. They mentioned having great matches with The Usos, The New Day, Titus O'Neil and Apollo Crews, and especially Bobby Roode and Chad Gable, but that the creative team for the Main Roster didn't seem to care about Tag Team wrestling at all, that it was pretty much an afterthought.  They talked about how months would go by and the Tag Team titles wouldn't even get defended on PPV.

- FTR talked specifically about an incident where they had a match with The New Day that they thought was excellent, and all four guys felt they really tore the house down.  They claimed that when they got backstage Vince McMahon was standing there with his hands in his pockets, and looked unimpressed.  They said that Vince McMahon said they wanted to be just like Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard, and they were...they were great Pro Wrestlers, but that was it.  FTR talked about how they took that as a compliment, but McMahon actually meant it as an insult...that they were "just" Pro Wrestlers and not Sports Entertainers and didn't seem to care how good their matches were or how hard they were working.

- Jim Cornette talked about how something had happened to Vince McMahon over the years, that even the Vince McMahon that he knew used to care somewhat about quality Pro Wrestling, but for some reason he didn't care anymore.  FTR agreed, and said that pretty much all of the agents/producers used to tell them that they were doing a great job and were having great matches, but for whatever reason Vince McMahon just didn't "get" them.

- FTR talked about how a lot of the top talent like Roman Reigns and Randy Orton would put them over.  They claimed that had literally seen top names go to Vince McMahon, right in front of them and put them over...and claim that they wanted to work with them, but creative would never follow up on it.  FTR confirmed the story that went around last year, that Randy Orton wanted to use FTR as his henchmen and have them with him whenever he was on TV, but Vince wouldn't go with it, and never really explained why.  They claimed that eventually it became obvious that for whatever reason Vince didn't like them, they weren't his "cup of tea."  Since Vince didn't like them, the writers would never come up with anything for them, and they would go weeks when they wouldn't be on TV at all, or they would be scheduled to be on TV but get pulled off at the last minute with no explanation why.  They talked about one particular incident where they were scheduled to be on Raw and then were told moments before the show went on the air that they were being pulled.

- They decided that since it was clear Vince didn't see anything in them, and since the WWE didn't seem to be interested in promoting Tag Team wrestling in general, that they were going to respectfully ask for their release and permission to try and make it as a team elsewhere.  They told a story about how they went to Triple H and asked him for their release, and Triple H tried to pacify them by claiming they would be getting the Tag Team titles soon.  FTR made it very clear that it was never about being made Tag Team champions to them, they didn't care about the titles and didn't campaign to get them.  They claimed the issue was that WWE does not seem to care about Tag Team wrestling anymore and treats it as an afterthought.

- They talked about something that I wasn't aware of, since I don't watch WWE TV.  They claimed that the McMahon family had made some speech on the air last year admitting that things needed to change in WWE, and that things were going to change. (I have no recollection of that.) They claim that the talent was being told the same thing backstage, and that Triple H seemed to legitimately believe it, but obviously it was just lip service and nothing ever changed.  They discussed with Cornette that Vince McMahon is in charge and he will always be in charge, and WWE will always be what he wants, no matter what.

- They claimed initially they were told that they could have their release, and that the news spread like wildfire backstage that they had asked to be released. Originally Triple H told them they could have their release, but then Mark Carrano told them they couldn't.  They claimed that they signed contracts and if they weren't going to be released they intended to honor their contracts.  They claimed they were offered extremely large new contracts, for a great deal of money...but they turned them down.  They claimed that they are both extremely frugal, they are not in debt and are careful with their money, so this issue was never about money to them.  They basically didn't want to work for a company that obviously didn't see anything in them or the type of Pro Wrestling they represented, no matter how much money they got offered.

- The whole issue of WWE offering their talents big money contracts to keep them from AEW was brought up.  Cornette pointed out that Gallows and Anderson had taken the huge money contracts that the WWE offered them to keep them from AEW initially, but then turned around and screwed them once the pandemic hit.  FTR admitted that if they had taken the big money contracts WWE had offered them it was very likely the same thing would have happened to them.  Jim Cornette reiterated what he always says...that when you sign a 5 year contract with WWE, you are really just signing a 90 day contract because WWE can release you whenever they want, so it isn't really a contract anyhow.

- They discussed a couple of misconceptions about FTR.  Firstly, they talked about how some people seem to think that they refused to do "sports entertainment" and that wasn't true.  They brought up the angle where The Usos put "Icy Hot" on their balls.  They claimed they had no problem with the angle and were happy to do it, and that they never turned down ideas that were brought to them.  In fact, they claimed that they sent the writers ideas for them by email every single week, but not only did the writers not accept the ideas, they never even acknowledged the emails at all.  They claimed that when they told Vince McMahon this he claimed to be totally unaware of the fact that they had been pitching ideas for over a year, and he apologized to them for the "system being broken."

- They also discussed the misconception that they could not cut promos.  They claimed that one of them (Harwood I think) had actually won a promo competition in NXT, and that both of them were fully capable of cutting great promos, but nobody would ever give them the opportunity. Jim Cornette claimed that he assumed The Revival had weak promos skills and needed a manager because they never talked, but FTR claims they would be happy to talk...they just weren't allowed.

- The whole issue of the infamous new outfits and angle got brought up.  They confirmed that basically, WWE wanted them to pretend to be a ripoff of The Fantastics or The Fabulous Ones, and have cheesy 80's entrance music (which they claimed Vince did a very humorous dance to) and those ridiculous outfits which leaked online.  They admitted that they did find it insulting that the WWE would mock some of the best Tag Teams of the 80's, and that it was possible that WWE was trying to humiliate them or punish them, they never knew for sure. Cash Wheeler talked about how when he first saw the infamous sketches of the new ring gear, he burst out laughing right in Vince's face.  They both claimed that they did not refuse to do the angle, that they would have done whatever WWE asked them to do, no matter what.  They claimed that as long as WWE was paying them and they were under contract, they would not refuse to do anything...they would do whatever asked.  But they claimed that they made it clear to Vince McMahon no matter what gimmick he gave them, no matter how much money he offered them, no matter if they won the titles, as soon as their contracts were up, they were leaving WWE no matter what.  As soon as they made that clear, they were sent home and were forced to wait out the remained of their contracts without pay.

- Brian Last asked a couple of questions.  He asked who was more full of shit, Bruce Prichard or Paul Heyman?  They found that question very funny.  They ended up claiming that they were both pretty much equally full of shit, but that Paul Heyman actually seemed to believe his own bullshit.  They gave a hilarious example of Bruce Prichard clearly lying to them about something.  They claimed that they sat down with Prichard to discuss the gimmick change that had been proposed, and during the conversation FTR mentioned that their contracts were coming up and they were planning on leaving.  They claimed Bruce Prichard told them they he had no idea their contracts were up and that they wanted to leave, which is pretty hysterical. Cornette confirmed that knowing WWE like he does, Prichard absolutely knew everything about their contract status and future plans, and he was clearly lying.  FTR made a point of saying that they did not envy either Prichard or Heyman for having to answer to Vince McMahon.  When asked, they claimed that they had barely seen or interacted with Eric Bischoff during the very brief time he worked for WWE.

- They were asked about the incident at the Hall of Fame last year, when Wheeler punched out the fan that attacked Bret Hart.  Cornette asked if Wheeler got any praise or a bonus for that, because he would have back in the territory days.  Wheeler said that he had met with Vince McMahon who was somewhat concerned about the incident and they watched the tape of the incident together.  Wheeler point out that by the time the wrestlers dragged the fan away from Bret Hart, security or the police still hadn't intervened and it was just the wrestlers rushing the guy away.  Wheeler claimed the fan's hands were still free, and was still screaming and carrying on, so Wheeler punched him to subdue him.

- Brian Last asked FTR what percentage of current WWE talent actually studies old footage or takes advice from veterans.  This is when the Ricky Morton story came up.  They claimed that one day while they were in NXT, they came to the Performance Center, and Ricky Morton was there.  He had been booked as a guest trainer, but was just standing there by the ring all by himself, and nobody was talking to him even though the entire NXT group was there.  Harwood claims he went to Matt Bloom and asked what was going on.  Matt Bloom reportedly agreed that it was disgusting that everybody had the chance to work with Ricky Morton, but nobody would talk to him.  Bloom gave Harwood permission to call a general meeting, and everybody gathered around.  Harwood claims he gave a big speech where he got so emotional he ended up getting teary eyed, because one half of the greatest Tag Team of all time was there, and the greatest seller of all time, but nobody would be bothered to ask his advice or get his feedback.  FTR made it pretty clear that there are some talents who do study old footage and seek feedback from veterans, but that the percentage is very small.

- They were asked about how important Arn Anderson had been to their careers.  They actually got a little emotional when talking about Arn.  They claimed that Arn had never even seen them wrestle before they got called up to the Main Roster, because he didn't have time to watch NXT while working as an agent for Vince.  They said that once Arn produced their matches on house shows (especially the series with Roode and Gable) Arn became one of their biggest advocates, and started heavily promoting them to Vince McMahon.  They brought up the fact that Arn heavily pushed for them to be featured on Raw this past February against Roode and Gable, and that Vince acquiesced, gave them the time and told them the match was "good shit."  Arn recently told this exact same story on his podcast. Conrad Thompson has talked about how Vince McMahon came to dislike Arn Anderson so much, that when Arn would advocate for a talent, it would actually end up being held against the talent in question and end up hurting their career, not helping it.  Brodie Lee confirmed this recently too, and said that Arn told him that he was going to stop praising him to Vince McMahon, because it might be hurting him.  I got the strong impression from this interview that the way WWE treated Arn Anderson may have factored into FTR's decision to walk away from WWE.  I know @rovert claimed he heard a lot of the talent were very upset at how Vince McMahon treated Arn, and I got that impression here as well.

- FTR heavily put over all the veterans how came before them and talked about how much respect they had for guys like Arn, Bobby Eaton, Ricky Morton and Jim Cornette himself.  There was a great deal of complimenting and mutual admiration during this interview, as you would expect.  Jim Cornette said he had sworn off AEW but he would be watching anything FTR were involved in.

- They were asked about their relationship with Triple H.  They claimed that they liked Triple H and appreciated everything he had done for them.  At one point, he considered them "his boys" but that an incident occurred at Raw 25 which changed that to a degree.  They reunited The Kliq, both the nWo and DX together and the two groups ended up beating up The Revival and basically made them look like a joke.  They claimed they had no problem "doing jobs" but they had been made to look like fools basically, and afterwards all of them walked right by without thanking them or even looking at them.  The only exception was Sean Waltman, who thanked them for taking the beating and said he was a fan of their work.  If you watch that segment, you're talking about Billy Gunn, Road Dogg, Waltman, Triple H, Michaels, Hall and Nash who gave them the beating...and they're claiming the only one who thanked them was Waltman.  Harwood claims afterward he was so humiliated and upset that he ended up punching the wall in anger.  You would think that since Road Dogg, Triple H and Michaels all knew them and worked with them that they would have thanked them...but that is not the impression that I came away with.

- The interview ended with them talking about AEW.  They talked about how The Young Bucks have been claiming they are the best Tag Team in Pro Wrestling for a few years now. They pointed out that it was the fans and the internet that started claiming The Revival was the greatest team, and insinuated that made the Bucks jealous. Cornette discussed with FTR how The Young Bucks have a reputation in the industry for being very sensitive to criticism and jealous of other talents.  FTR claimed that The Bucks had taken shots at them on their YouTube show but never talked to them about it before or reached out to them.  FTR also claimed they were upset with Cody Rhodes because he told Sam Roberts on his radio show that The Young Bucks are the greatest team because The Revival practices all their matches beforehand at the PC.  They managed to actually sound legitimately pissed at that, although I am sure this portion of the interview was all a work. FTR claim they have not actually signed AEW contracts yet, and are working with AEW on a handshake agreement.  They claimed that there are a lot of teams not in AEW around the world that they want to work with, but they are open to signing AEW contracts. They claimed that the proof they hadn't signed actual AEW contracts is that they were appearing on Jim Cornette's podcast.

- FTR put over Tony Khan for being very generous financially and offering talent creative freedom.  Jim Cornette asked them if that meant we could expect to see FTR teleporting around with Matt Hardy or magically changing costumes in an ice machine.  FTR implied this would not be the case, and joked about if they did sign contracts, having it written into their contracts that they will not be taking part in angles like that. 

- Cornette pretty much ended the interview by encouraging FTR to kick The Young Bucks in the balls.

[MoS]

Thank you for that, @The Thread Killer. I have to think that the stuff about them not having signed AEW contracts is them working. After the Marty Scrull fiasco last year, I don't think Tony Khan is going to give any kind of prominent push on his TV to unsigned wrestlers. 

[C.S.]

Thank you so much for typing out all of that, @The Thread Killer - I really enjoyed reading your recap (and also your incredible thread about the late Hyatte, who I never really read but whose name I remember from a couple of decades ago).

3 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

They claimed that the McMahon family had made some speech on the air last year admitting that things needed to change in WWE, and that things were going to change. (I have no recollection of that.) They claim that the talent was being told the same thing backstage, and that Triple H seemed to legitimately believe it, but obviously it was just lip service and nothing ever changed. 

You probably don't remember this because it was one of many WWE resets and one of many ra-ra "we've listened to you, the WWE Universe, and we're going to change" speeches that never went anywhere.

[SirEdger]

I'm almost convinced that they use that speech so they could use that in the angle to dismiss Baron Corbin as Constable Corbin on RAW when they blamed him for the shitty ratings it was doing.

[C.S.]

Sharing this here just because it's a fun picture. Does make me wonder what Jim Cornette thinks of modern day video games and superhero comics and movies though.  

 

 

[WingedEagle]

The man experienced his greatest professional success and arguable peak over 30 years ago.  He hasn't been remotely relevant in 25.  And he's somehow become an apparently professional troll.  Amazing.

[The Thread Killer]

3 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

The man experienced his greatest professional success and arguable peak over 30 years ago. 

Jim Cornette is experiencing his "greatest professional success" right now. He makes more money now than he ever did.

3 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

He hasn't been remotely relevant in 25.

Oh good, the "Jim Cornette is irrelevant" talking point. 

For the millionth time, I ask...what exactly is "relevance" in Professional wrestling and who defines it?  His podcast gets 300,000 downloads a week, minimum. Even Conrad Thompson has admitted that Cornette's podcasts get as many or more downloads than the majority of his do.  Cornette's official YouTube channel just passed 137,000 subscribers. So if you define relevance by popularity or by how many people actually listen to you, then clearly Jim Cornette is relevant...at least to his own fanbase.

If you define relevance as somebody who is in touch with current or modern trends, then you're clearly missing the point.  Jim Cornette has made it clear repeatedly that he doesn't want to be "relevant" to current Pro Wrestling or fans of so-called "modern" Pro Wrestling, because he hates it.  He's a critic. He speaks for a very large number of disaffected or alienated Pro Wrestling fans who really don't like the way Pro Wrestling is "evolving" or what it is evolving into.

Whether you agree with Jim Cornette or you don't...you can't honestly make a logical argument that he isn't successful or that he isn't relevant to his own fans, at the very least. There is just too much evidence to the contrary.

[The Thread Killer]

6 hours ago, C.S. said:

Sharing this here just because it's a fun picture. Does make me wonder what Jim Cornette thinks of modern day video games and superhero comics and movies though.

Cornette apparently has a pretty impressive Silver and Golden Age Comic Book collection (he has managed to hang onto a lot of the comic books he bought when he was a kid, amazingly) but he sold off some of his most valuable issues over the past few years.  He actually discussed that not too long ago on his podcast, how he sold his "Amazing Fantasy #15" (the first appearance of Spiderman) and "Tales Of Suspense #39" (the first appearance of Iron Man) for a decent price. Brian Last is always asking him to watch and review the Marvel Movies and Cornette has hemmed and hawed about it.  He claims his wife has seen them and really liked a few of them, but Cornette apparently doesn't watch any modern TV or movies.  I get the impression from stuff he has said on his podcast that he basically only watches Documentary films or old classic movies like the stuff they have on Turner Classic Movies.  He is always talking about different Documentaries he's watched. Of course, he is also a confirmed South Park and Family Guy fan.  But from the sounds of it, his memorabilia business keeps him so busy (he and his wife run it alone) that it doesn't appear to give him a lot of time for casual entertainment.

As far as modern video games, aside from bemoaning how modern Pro Wrestlers are more interested in playing video games backstage than they are in watching the other matches, I don't recall him every saying much about modern gaming.  Cornette is notoriously reluctant to embrace any form of modern technology...he still writes everything by hand and only uses the Internet under great duress.  I don't even think he owns a Cell Phone.  If he actually sat down to try and play a video game, I can easily envision him not understanding how it works, getting easily frustrated and then smashing the console to pieces in a profanity laden psychotic episode.  (Very similar to my reaction every time I have upgraded my gaming system since the end of the original Nintendo system.)

[C.S.]

4 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Cornette apparently doesn't watch any modern TV or movies.  I get the impression from stuff he has said on his podcast that he basically only watches Documentary films or old classic movies like the stuff they have on Turner Classic Movies. 

If he hadn't blocked me on Twitter, I would enthusiastically recommend The Criterion Channel to him.

Since I can't recommend it to him, I'll recommend it to all of you instead!

[El-P]

5 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

For the millionth time, I ask...what exactly is "relevance" in Professional wrestling and who defines it?  His podcast gets 300,000 downloads a week, minimum. Even Conrad Thompson has admitted that Cornette's podcasts get as many or more downloads than the majority of his do.  Cornette's official YouTube channel just passed 137,000 subscribers. So if you define relevance by popularity or by how many people actually listen to you, then clearly Jim Cornette is relevant...at least to his own fanbase.

There's one honest question though. If Jim Cornette had been talking solely about old pro-wrestling history in the last few years, would he have as much downloads ? I have honestly no idea, but I highly doubt it. When he was doing the KC Back to the Territories videos and when his podcast was barely following the modern product a few years ago, apart from a few digs here and there on Trip, he wasn't the talk of the Internet at all. I know because I was a very regular listener. Why he is suddenly so popular with a certain fanbase ? Because he's hate watching AEW and shits on it and gets buzz from it. Let's be honest, Cornette today is a satellite of AEW, not to say a parasite. He knows he gets a lot more buzz and downloads and revenues by saying shit about Omega and the Bucks than if he was just talking about the Portland territory in the late seventies. Without these guys to hate on, Corny is "just" a respected historian and great storyteller and host on KC. Corny knows where his bread is buttered. If he makes more money now than ever before, well, good for him, but he should thanks Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks and Tony Khan then. If they aren't around, Corny has no hype whatsoever. His occasional rants about modern stuff on his podcast didn't get nearly as much hype before AEW existed. He was also an occasional guest on Meltzer's show and it was always really fun and interesting too, because he had not turned himself into a self-parody and talked about the things he loved.

Hating on Omega, the Bucks and basically AEW is what sells Corny's podcast today. Talking about AEW is what makes Corny's show relevant to his audience. Hell, he invited FTR on his show... the very week they debut on Dynamite...

So, who is relevant today ? AEW. Omega. The Bucks. They have been defining modern pro-wrestling during the last decade, no matter what anyone thinks about them. It's a cold hard fact. They are so relevant that Corny is hanging on to *them* to make "the most money he ever made" (which, if it's true, is a pretty sad state of affair, really, when you consider his HOF run with the MX).

Corny by himself isn't relevant because he's not contributing anything positive anymore, he's living off those who are by doing what people do today, being a hater (and at times, a carny hater as showed by the Callihan debacle).

He's the guy who says techno and hip-hop aren't real music because "they don't play real instrument". He's the guy who moans after the "good old days". He's the old man yelling at clouds. The fact his yelling at the clouds makes him money doesn't mean he's relevant in any shape or form. He probably could if he had an open mind, but sadly, thats ship is gone. 

[The Thread Killer]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

There's one honest question though. If Jim Cornette had been talking solely about old pro-wrestling history in the last few years, would he have as much downloads ? I have honestly no idea, but I highly doubt it. When he was doing the KC Back to the Territories videos and when his podcast was barely following the modern product a few years ago, apart from a few digs here and there on Trip, he wasn't the talk of the Internet at all. I know because I was a very regular listener. Why he is suddenly so popular with a certain fanbase ? Because he's hate watching AEW and shits on it and gets buzz from it.

I agree with you.  To me, this began to get out of hand when Cornette reviewed AEW Double or Nothing 2019.  His comments about the Casino Battle Royal and Sonny Kiss in particular seemed to ignite the shit storm. That controversy seemed to bring Jim Cornette to the attention of a lot of fans who otherwise didn't know what his opinions were, or in some cases may not have even known who he was.  The following week and for the next few episodes after that, Brian Last stated he was shocked how their downloads had begun to skyrocket.  I even remember him mentioning at one point that their audience had almost doubled.  You could pretty much hear Brian Last rubbing his hands together as their downloads went up, (as I assume so did their ad buys and ad rates, because they certainly started quickly adding new advertisers to the show.)

Jim Cornette himself is to blame for this, of course.  But I also blame Brian Last.  Cornette himself has complained during the show about Brian Last insisting he watch certain things and review them...things that Cornette never would have bothered to seek out on his own.  But Last insists that he watches stuff that he knows Cornette won't like, just so Cornette will freak out and say something outrageous.  It's the same reason he deliberately selects stupid questions for Cornette's Q&A podcast.  To me, it's the equivalent of having a friend who you know will act like a jerk if he gets drunk, but you keep insisting on buying him drinks and making sure he drinks them.  Cornette bears the ultimate responsibility for everything that comes out of his mouth, but the way Brian Last pretty much goads him and manufactures a lot of the controversies himself is kind of pathetic.  But Cornette isn't being manipulated.  He's not stupid and he gladly goes along with it.

Almost as bad, there are a bunch of Pro Wrestling so-called "News" sites, who have started to listen to Cornette's shows every week and then report on what he says.  That also perpetuates the problem.  Jim Cornette saying some outrageous or nasty shit about AEW or modern Pro Wrestling is not news, but unfortunately a lot of these sites act like it is. They report it, people get outraged and head to Twitter, and the whole thing starts all over again.  And that's not even taking some weird AEW fans into account, who literally listen to Cornette's shows just so they can find something to get pissed off about, and complain about it on Twitter.  The whole situation is pretty much self-perpetuating at this point and it's getting really old.

8 hours ago, El-P said:

So, who is relevant today ? AEW. Omega. The Bucks. They have been defining modern pro-wrestling during the last decade, no matter what anyone thinks about them. It's a cold hard fact.

AEW might define modern Pro Wrestling but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of fans who don't like modern Pro Wrestling, though. If nobody agreed with what Jim Cornette says about modern Pro Wrestling...then nobody would listen to him. Cornette would be a crazy old timer ranting and raving and everybody would ignore him (like Superstar Billy Graham, for example.) Jim Cornette is crazy and rants and raves, but people listen. He has a huge fanbase. He's getting that audience because there is a very large number of fans who hate what Pro Wrestling has become.  Cornette reads letters from fans every week who are fans of old school, traditional style Pro Wrestling and don't like the modern stuff.  I think Jim Cornette speaks to those fans, and he speaks for them. 

To me, relevance can be defined by doing something that people notice and care about. Like him or not, people care about what Jim Cornette says...so I can't see the argument that he isn't relevant.

8 hours ago, El-P said:

They are so relevant that Corny is hanging on to *them* to make "the most money he ever made" (which, if it's true, is a pretty sad state of affair, really, when you consider his HOF run with the MX).

Corny by himself isn't relevant because he's not contributing anything positive anymore, he's living off those who are by doing what people do today, being a hater (and at times, a carny hater as showed by the Callihan debacle).

Cornette has been quite upfront about the fact that during the heyday of the Midnight Express in JCP, he made around $250,000 a year.  When Turner bought out the NWA I am pretty sure he ended taking a pay cut, and of course everybody has heard Cornette's stories about how Jim Herd cut his pay back to $125,000.  If I'm not mistaken he probably ended up making around $300,000 a year when he worked for Vince McMahon.  So I assume those would have been his prime "earning" years.  Cornette claimed that between his podcasts, conventions/personal appearances and most importantly his collectibles business, he has managed to match those numbers...and now he can stay at home most of the time so he's not spending a ton of money on travel, food and accommodation.

I know Cornette makes a good amount of money from the ad sales for his podcasts and the YouTube money, but he's always given the impression that his financial bread and butter has been his Cornette's Collectibles business.  I have heard him say that one of the main reasons he started doing a podcast in the first place was to promote his business.  I think he's been very successful with that business.  I remember when he sold out what he thought would be a year's supply of his graphic novel in a couple of months, so quickly that they had to order a second printing. Last year he announced that he was down to 250 units left of his action figure, and that sold out in a few weeks as well.  I remember thinking at the time: "Who the hell wants a Jim Cornette action figure?!" I think between the books, DVD and T-shirt sales, he's doing pretty damn well for himself.  I don't agree that he's making a living off hanging onto AEW.

But hey, even if I'm wrong and he is making a living off hating AEW...that actually makes it funny.  If Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks were responsible for Jim Cornette making a living, I'd find that kind of hilarious.  Tony Khan offered Cornette a job, and Cornette didn't want it...and why would he? He can make money from AEW without even having to work for them. That's Pro Wrestling for you.

[Log]

Cornette seems to have that Howard Stern thing of "people who love him listen an average of an hour a day, people who hate him listen for four hours" thing going on.  

[WingedEagle]

15 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

Jim Cornette is experiencing his "greatest professional success" right now. He makes more money now than he ever did.

Oh good, the "Jim Cornette is irrelevant" talking point. 

For the millionth time, I ask...what exactly is "relevance" in Professional wrestling and who defines it?  His podcast gets 300,000 downloads a week, minimum. Even Conrad Thompson has admitted that Cornette's podcasts get as many or more downloads than the majority of his do.  Cornette's official YouTube channel just passed 137,000 subscribers. So if you define relevance by popularity or by how many people actually listen to you, then clearly Jim Cornette is relevant...at least to his own fanbase.

If you define relevance as somebody who is in touch with current or modern trends, then you're clearly missing the point.  Jim Cornette has made it clear repeatedly that he doesn't want to be "relevant" to current Pro Wrestling or fans of so-called "modern" Pro Wrestling, because he hates it.  He's a critic. He speaks for a very large number of disaffected or alienated Pro Wrestling fans who really don't like the way Pro Wrestling is "evolving" or what it is evolving into.

Whether you agree with Jim Cornette or you don't...you can't honestly make a logical argument that he isn't successful or that he isn't relevant to his own fans, at the very least. There is just too much evidence to the contrary.

From everything I've read/heard he stopped being a fan of professional wrestling quite a long time ago.  He may have his fans but I'd contend their interest in him has nothing to do with wrestling.  He's undoubtedly relevant to them.  But that's the extent of his relevance.