The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

[Beast]

Is Trump really quick witted?

I don't think he's known for his one liners. Does have a lot of word salad though.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Orange 45 isn't quick anything, "Alternative  sex"?  The Cheeto Benito is a rapist. Cornette is a lot, but not that. 
And the only funny thing about Orange Julius Caesar is knowing that he shits his pants while golfing and being an addled, stupid, racist.  

[NintendoLogic]

After reviewing Young Bucks/FTR, Cornette explains how he would have booked the match. He would have FTR spend the match "not cooperating" with the Bucks and then "double-cross" them on the finish by putting one of them in a small package and not allowing him to kick out. The next day, they would announce on the Internet that they're holding the belts hostage until they get a raise. His hatred of AEW has turned him into Vince Russo.

[MoS]

1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said:

After reviewing Young Bucks/FTR, Cornette explains how he would have booked the match. He would have FTR spend the match "not cooperating" with the Bucks and then "double-cross" them on the finish by putting one of them in a small package and not allowing him to kick out. The next day, they would announce on the Internet that they're holding the belts hostage until they get a raise. His hatred of AEW has turned him into Vince Russo.

IIRC, his fantasy booking of the Invasion was also filled with similar worked-shoot bullshit 

[El-P]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

IIRC, his fantasy booking of the Invasion was also filled with similar worked-shoot bullshit 

Yeah, I remember the Vince Russo version actually made more sense in the beginning (until it made none because "there was no heels nor babyfaces")

But yeah. Total Russo booking, complete with Schiavone having to say "What are they gonna do now, improvise ?".

[cm funk]

Glad I skipped all that noise on this week's Drive Thru.  I'm at the point where I just skip the AEW and NXT reviews altogether because all the bullshit and cheap, petty attacks outweigh whatever good might come from it.  I already skip the commercial reads and the songs.  Pretty soon I'll just be skipping it altogether at this rate.  And I'm not a hardcore AEW fanboy, they're far from perfect, but his inability to admit that Kenny and the Bucks, ya know, might actually be good rasslers, is kind of infuriating to me.  And I'm definitely not in the audience of people he's aiming to trigger

[Big Pete]

I actually don't mind the idea of FTR being so in-ring savvy that they reverse a lot of the usual sports entertainmenty Bucks spot and force the Bucks to wrestle a more intense match. The Bucks are capable and I think it would have made the rivalry seem more believable than this hokey 'Days of our Lives' nonsense the Bucks have been doing on BTE. In classic Cornette fashion, he did go too far with it and I don't blame anyone dismissing him out of turn, but the stuff before that could have worked.

While I think fans by and large enjoyed the match, the general concensus suggests the match under-delivered.

Outside of the tributes to Bullet Bob and Smothers, the last piece of content I enjoyed from Cornette was his response to Meltzer criticising his ROH run. I've said it before, but it's a period I'd really like to see them explore, even though it would require Brian Last to do some research prior to. I thought Cornette provided some nice explanations, I think the only elephant in the room is that fans weren't as enamoured by the roster and felt they could watch better talent on PWG or Dragon Gate USA. At a guess, I'd imagine a lot of the same situations that applied to the Bucks and Bobby Fish would apply here as well but it'd just be nice to have it on record that Jim couldn't sign the likes of PAC, Samuray Del Sol, Ricochet, Uhaa Nation, Jon Moxley, Willie Mack, Brodie Lee etc. when they had buzz and a lot of them went onto become big stars.

Regardless, the criticism with ROH stems from the way he tried to book the Steen/Generico angle and basically forced it to be an unsanctioned match and when Steen lost he'd have to leave the company for six months to get into better shape when he was the most over guy in the company. The wrestlers and the fans saw that and it turned them off the company. So Jim likes to pretend he made Steen his biggest star and gave him this huge push, but he fought the fans the entire way with it.

The biggest revelation to come out of it was that Cornette was planning Generico/Steen for Final Battle. I remember they shot the angle with Lethal and Steen which appeared to be the direction and fans hated it. Supposedly Generico was playing hard-ball so they shot that angle just as a back-up plan incase Generico pulled out at the 11th hour.

[khawk20]

On 11/11/2020 at 6:08 PM, cm funk said:

Glad I skipped all that noise on this week's Drive Thru.  I'm at the point where I just skip the AEW and NXT reviews altogether because all the bullshit and cheap, petty attacks outweigh whatever good might come from it.  I already skip the commercial reads and the songs.  Pretty soon I'll just be skipping it altogether at this rate.  And I'm not a hardcore AEW fanboy, they're far from perfect, but his inability to admit that Kenny and the Bucks, ya know, might actually be good rasslers, is kind of infuriating to me.  And I'm definitely not in the audience of people he's aiming to trigger

On youtube, they often break down the segments of the Drive-Thru into specifically titled pieces, so you can pick and choose a lot of what you want to listen to. Much easier to pick out things that might interest you or that you know won't that way.

[Coffey]

14 hours ago, Big Pete said:

I actually don't mind the idea of FTR being so in-ring savvy that they reverse a lot of the usual sports entertainmenty Bucks spot and force the Bucks to wrestle a more intense match.

I actually thought they did a pretty decent job of telling this exact story at Full Gear. Up to the point where the "No Flips, Just Fists" old school tag team tried to do a flip, the 450, and it cost them the match. 

The Bucks still did high spots, obviously, but the whole leg work & cutting off the ring took away a lot of the offense that the Bucks normally do and that's why I liked the match, to be honest.

 

[Big Pete]

1 hour ago, Coffey said:

I actually thought they did a pretty decent job of telling this exact story at Full Gear. Up to the point where the "No Flips, Just Fists" old school tag team tried to do a flip, the 450, and it cost them the match.  

The Bucks still did high spots, obviously, but the whole leg work & cutting off the ring took away a lot of the offense that the Bucks normally do and that's why I liked the match, to be honest.

 

I would have to watch it again with fresh eyes to form a definitive opinion, but on first view it appeared that FTR were utterly clueless in the opening stanza when they had all the momentum. Outside of the one spot where Dax ran into Cash while he had the leg lock in, it just seemed like they were going through the motions which was disappointing in a big match like this. Cash actually went for a number of high spots and blew all of them which buried him. If they had have done it where Cash took the Bucks by surprise with some surprising athleticism and then got too full of himself it would have worked, but here it just made him look like a choke artist.

It wasn't a bad match, certainly somewhere in the Top 10 AEW Tag Team matches, but I'd have a hard time recommending it over other Bucks or Revival matches.

[The Thread Killer]

16 hours ago, khawk20 said:

On youtube, they often break down the segments of the Drive-Thru into specifically titled pieces, so you can pick and choose a lot of what you want to listen to. Much easier to pick out things that might interest you or that you know won't that way.

I still consider myself a Jim Cornette fan.  I pretty much agree with his opinion on Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks.  But between the incessant ad reads, the interminable political rants and the repetitiveness of his reviews, his podcasts have become an absolute chore to get through. Lately, it hasn't been unusual to have to sit through almost an hour of him doing ads and then ranting about Donald Trump and Republicans before he actually starts to talk about Pro Wrestling. That's nuts.  Say what you want about Conrad, but at least he gets to talking about Pro Wrestling pretty much right off the bat. He gives his co-hosts a few minutes to ramble, then they get down to business. I agree with @khawk20, using YouTube to listen to the individual segments/questions is pretty much the only way I can handle listening to Jim Cornette at this point.  And as much as I respect his knowledge of the history of Pro Wrestling, his fantasy booking ideas are generally total shit. 

I have come to understand something about Jim Cornette, and it is a distinction I never really made until recently.  Cornette understands Pro Wrestling psychology better than pretty much anybody I have ever heard.  The mechanics of how, when and why Pro Wrestlers do things during a match...he is almost peerless in that department.  But on the flip side, he has woefully outdated, simplistic and quite frankly unimpressive ideas when it comes to actual storytelling and booking outside the ring.  The distinction is really quite remarkable.  If I ran a Pro Wrestling promotion, I'd hire him in a minute to plan and layout matches and help the talent tell the story once the bell rang, but he's the next to last guy I'd ever pick to actually book the angles.

(Vince Russo would be the last.)

[cm funk]

38 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

I still consider myself a Jim Cornette fan.  I pretty much agree with his opinion on Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks.  But between the incessant ad reads, the interminable political rants and the repetitiveness of his reviews, his podcasts have become an absolute chore to get through. Lately, it hasn't been unusual to have to sit through almost an hour of him doing ads and then ranting about Donald Trump and Republicans before he actually starts to talk about Pro Wrestling. That's nuts.  Say what you want about Conrad, but at least he gets to talking about Pro Wrestling pretty much right off the bat. He gives his co-hosts a few minutes to ramble, then they get down to business. I agree with @khawk20, using YouTube to listen to the individual segments/questions is pretty much the only way I can handle listening to Jim Cornette at this point.  And as much as I respect his knowledge of the history of Pro Wrestling, his fantasy booking ideas are generally total shit. 

I have come to understand something about Jim Cornette, and it is a distinction I never really made until recently.  Cornette understands Pro Wrestling psychology better than pretty much anybody I have ever heard.  The mechanics of how, when and why Pro Wrestlers do things during a match...he is almost peerless in that department.  But on the flip side, he has woefully outdated, simplistic and quite frankly unimpressive ideas when it comes to actual storytelling and booking outside the ring.  The distinction is really quite remarkable.  If I ran a Pro Wrestling promotion, I'd hire him in a minute to plan and layout matches and help the talent tell the story once the bell rang, but he's the next to last guy I'd ever pick to actually book the angles.

(Vince Russo would be the last.)

That's spot on.  (Other than agreeing with him on the Bucks and Kenny )

[War is Raw]

There is no doubt when it is their time at Cauliflower Alley or the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame (or their future replacements) that The Young Bucks will be considered the next step in the natural evolution of tag team wrestling (Rock N Roll Express-->Rockers-->Hardys-->Young Bucks).

FTR vs TYB was comparable to Rockers vs Brain Busters.

Traditional rasslin' like NWA Powerrr (and truthfully how NXT was presented before USA) are also niches, not solutions to "fix" wrestling. Marvel/Disney can "fix" it all right, by mainstreaming it for kids on NBC prime time and get 5 million viewers. Will everyone be happy then? Of course not. 

 

[Migs]

2 hours ago, War is Raw said:

Traditional rasslin' like NWA Powerrr (and truthfully how NXT was presented before USA) are also niches, not solutions to "fix" wrestling. Marvel/Disney can "fix" it all right, by mainstreaming it for kids on NBC prime time and get 5 million viewers. Will everyone be happy then? Of course not. 

 

This would honestly be a much better direction for WWE than trying to appeal to the whims of an 80 year old who thinks he understands kids. I'm not saying it would be good art but it would probably be coherent at least.

[El-P]

11 hours ago, Migs said:

I'm not saying it would be good art but it would probably be coherent at least.

You mean like those last Star Wars movies ?  

"Fuck, we've wasted our crappy heel boss on the second movie in the worst major confrontation ever, what do we do now ? "

"Bring back the big heel star from 40 years ago !"

[Migs]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

You mean like those last Star Wars movies ?  

"Fuck, we've wasted our crappy heel boss on the second movie in the worst major confrontation ever, what do we do now ? "

"Bring back the big heel star from 40 years ago !"



Ha! I am in no way a Star Wars person. That does sound bad.

[FMKK]

Those movies fucking stunk

[El-P]

They also had the "Bring up some new cool midcard characters in the first movie, then by the third movie they end up being complete afterthought instead of stars" syndrome BTW. That and a bunch of nostalgia pops and humiliation of older stars (poor Harrison Ford, between this and Indy 4 which has never actually been made in this universe... at least I loved him in Blade Runner 2049), actually, yeah, Disney should buy WWE, wouldn't change jackshit most probably !

[The Thread Killer]

30 minutes ago, El-P said:

at least I loved him in Blade Runner 2049

I remember sneaking into to see Blade Runner in the theatre when I was around 13 years old.  I loved that movie so much, it was one of the first movies I ever bought on VHS, and then DVD and then Blu Ray.  I am a Blade Runner mark.  When they announced they were making a sequel I was so pissed, but yeah...that movie was awesome. Visually stunning and artistic, and Ford did a great job of playing the character again.

[C.S.]

I haven't seen any of the recent Star Wars movies, but The Mandalorian has been pretty good, to be fair. 

WWE would kill for a babyface as over as Baby Yoda.

Vince would turn Baby Yoda heel after six months though. 

Speaking of The Mandalorian, Sasha Banks showed up this week. Only a couple of lines, and her voice is much more high-pitched than I ever realized - but this franchise is a far bigger deal than WWE ever was or will be, so it could open some doors for her...

She's credited as Mercedes Varnado, BTW, not Sasha Banks.

[FMKK]

Just right for her to start to make the break away. I guess if WWE never goes back to doing house shows and such like before she can still wrestle on TV and do filming if she wants to. I thought the first season of Mandalorian was a decent, entertaining show but nothing that's making me rush to pick up a Disney sub to watch another season.

[NintendoLogic]

Cornette speculated that Dave must have sent HOF ballots to reporters he knew would vote for Kenny Omega because that's the only way he can imagine Omega being voted in. Also, Dave on the F4W board called Cornette out for not really pushing back against Brian Last complaining about Larry Matysik being on the ballot and Chris Benoit not being recalled when he voted for Matysik year after year and was one of the biggest advocates of retaining Benoit.

[Edwin]

On 11/13/2020 at 11:52 AM, The Thread Killer said:

I still consider myself a Jim Cornette fan.  I pretty much agree with his opinion on Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks.  But between the incessant ad reads, the interminable political rants and the repetitiveness of his reviews, his podcasts have become an absolute chore to get through. Lately, it hasn't been unusual to have to sit through almost an hour of him doing ads and then ranting about Donald Trump and Republicans before he actually starts to talk about Pro Wrestling. That's nuts. ... I agree with @khawk20, using YouTube to listen to the individual segments/questions is pretty much the only way I can handle listening to Jim Cornette at this point.  And as much as I respect his knowledge of the history of Pro Wrestling, his fantasy booking ideas are generally total shit. 

I have come to understand something about Jim Cornette, and it is a distinction I never really made until recently.  Cornette understands Pro Wrestling psychology better than pretty much anybody I have ever heard.  The mechanics of how, when and why Pro Wrestlers do things during a match...he is almost peerless in that department.  But on the flip side, he has woefully outdated, simplistic and quite frankly unimpressive ideas when it comes to actual storytelling and booking outside the ring.  The distinction is really quite remarkable.  If I ran a Pro Wrestling promotion, I'd hire him in a minute to plan and layout matches and help the talent tell the story once the bell rang, but he's the next to last guy I'd ever pick to actually book the angles.

(Vince Russo would be the last.)

This 100%. I like listening to pro-wrestling podcasts for the same reason I like watching pro-wrestling; as an escape from the real world. Tuning into Cornette's podcast only to listen to his political commentary isn't why I listen to it, so digging through his YouTube at least gets you that, but even then he still finds ways to make some of those wrestling clips about politics and I have to FF them a bit.

I also agree with some instances he has on modern pro-wrestling, but sometimes he just goes way overboard and proves he truly isn't the wrestling genius he thinks he is. I legit cringed a few times listening to the way he'd book the FTR vs. the Bucks match. Not that I thought if it was well booked or not, but his booking for that match was legit worse than what they actually did.

Aside from his wrestling talk, I will say sometimes he and Brian have some entertaining conversations about food and random occurrences such as Jim mentioning he used to eat ice cream as a child, but he wouldn't eat the cone as his hands were all dirty and the random tree from his yard extending into his neighbors yard story.

[sek69]

I know it might sound like I'm full of it because of how I criticize him here, but Cornette was one of my favorites in my early period of wrestling fandom. It truly makes me sad to see him go full "shitty message board troll account" in his old age. 

[El-P]

3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Cornette speculated that Dave must have sent HOF ballots to reporters he knew would vote for Kenny Omega because that's the only way he can imagine Omega being voted in. 

Yeah, the election was rigged or something. Wait... Hum... Yeah, Corny is so far gone at this point.

I was a huge Corny fan for so long. At first I found it sad and too bad, now it's just plain pathetic and I don't give a flying fuck anymore.