Loss Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Just making a quick post because I felt the need to point out that my silence is not condoning or reducing any of this. And this is more confessional than I'd prefer to be, but as someone who has been drugged and abused, who narrowly avoided a seriously bad situation in my early 20s and who also has my own childhood trauma that will always be with me, it's a topic that's really hard for me to discuss at length. So if you see me posting elsewhere on the board and not really in this thread, know that it's not because I see this story as unimportant. I'm not sharing that because I'm seeking sympathy or care to talk about it. I'm just posting that because I don't want to contribute to any enabling through silence, but I also don't really want to post about this topic. Hope that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, C.S. said: Is there a master list anywhere so I can unfollow all these fuckers en masse? The people who I have seen actual damning stories on are: David Starr, Jordan Devlin, Matt Riddle, Joey Ryan, the Crist Brothers, Travis Banks, Wolfgang, and Jack Gallagher. There is a story about Jimmy Havoc being a douchebag, but it's nothing sexual. There is a tidbit about Tyler Bate asking a married woman back to his room, but that is the extent of the story. Will Ospreay, Joe Coffey, Ligero, Mikey Whiplash and Alexander Dean are all listed, but I have not personally read anything about them. Marty Scurll is said to enjoy partying with underage girls, but that is literally all that is said. Super vague, and no actual stories that I have seen.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 They Osprey thing is he and Bea Priestly got a woman blackballed for accusing his friend of something. But I don't think there any allegations of him personally doing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 If Osperey and Bea got someone blackballed for speaking out, then that is a really shitty move on them. Shit like that is exactly why women prefer Twitter to filing official complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 The Jimmy Havoc one just makes my blood boil. The guy clearly had serious mental health issues and he was his own victim more than anything. I understand that it is difficult to be in that situation as the partner (I've been there myself) but to spin it like it was him emotionally abusing/manipulating her is just the worst kind of narcissistic bullshit and is a fine example of an allegation that works to discredit the entire movement. It's also an insult to those who have experienced legitimate physical or sexual abuse by trying to piggyback on their misfortunes. I just have to laugh how easily mental health is thrown to the wayside when it suits the agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 The mental health aspect is tough. I agree, it does just get tossed to the side in some situations but I also know and have seen some people act like absolute pieces of shit to everyone around them and hide behind their illness as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 If the behaviour is bad enough, I agree that the mental health issue shouldn't really matter much at that point. If there was physical abuse for example, action has to be taken regardless of the motivations. It certainly changes how the perpetrator should be dealt with or judged, but it's a bit different than if the bad behaviour was simply a result of one's character traits (although to be honest, people don't have complete control of their character either, but that is another philosophical debate entirely).  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: They Osprey thing is he and Bea Priestly got a woman blackballed for accusing his friend of something. But I don't think there any allegations of him personally doing anything. 29 minutes ago, MoS said: If Osperey and Bea got someone blackballed for speaking out, then that is a really shitty move on them. Shit like that is exactly why women prefer Twitter to filing official complaints. Pollyanna accused his friend (Scott Wainworth) of rape. She didn't get booked after that.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, World's Worst Man said: If the behaviour is bad enough, I agree that the mental health issue shouldn't really matter much at that point. If there was physical abuse for example, action has to be taken regardless of the motivations. It certainly changes how the perpetrator should be dealt with or judged, but it's a bit different than if the bad behaviour was simply a result of one's character traits (although to be honest, people don't have complete control of their character either, but that is another philosophical debate entirely).  Yeah. It's a tough line to call sometimes. I have some family with severe mental illness. The damage they left behind to others is real and still felt decades later but they also weren't responsible and needed medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Fwiw, apparently Matt Riddle is denying those allegations  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 And this is where it's gonna get tricky, because if some of those guys are falsely accused (even if it's 5% of them), this needs to be addressed too. And those who are lying about it, they are complete dirtbags using other people real suffering for whatever personal goal of vengeance they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, El-P said: And this is where it's gonna get tricky, because if some of those guys are falsely accused (even if it's 5% of them), this needs to be addressed too. And those who are lying about it, they are complete dirtbags using other people real suffering for whatever personal goal of vengeance they have. I agree with this. We shouldn't tolerate people latching on to this to intentionally try to damage people's reputations. Unfortunately it's hard to tell in these situations. It's not like Johnny Depp where he could prove he didn't in fact do what he was accused of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 A few seem to be clearly guilty. Starr sent out a torrent of non-apology apology tweets (including paid promoted tweets) but basically is conceding that the accuser is not lying. Cornette has not said anything but there are corroborations - and Joey Janela had made similar digs at him before all of this had started. There will be a lot of "corrupting" forces in this movement, but I would argue that is the case for any kind of groundswell movement. However, it has at least got a major conversation started about the existing pro wrestling culture, which I think is the most important part. Of course, the follow up will be equally important as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 I combined the initial comments with Kawada's thread. From this point forward, if you are going to comment on a claim, please provide an actual link to the story or tweet. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Any time there's a big social media pile-on, you can expect people with ulterior motives (whether it be individuals with an unrelated axe to grind or outright trolls) to get involved. That's why we have courts of law with rules of evidence to deal with things like this. I understand that the criminal justice system often gives victims of sexual abuse a raw deal, but trial by Twitter is no substitute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 West Yorkshire police announced they are going to carry out an investigation after the story hit the news on BBC, none of this would have happened if the Twitter threads didn't start the ball rolling, Which is why this had to be done this way. Not to say I don't feel for anyone innocent caught up in this, but honestly if it's only a couple of people in a list of dozens and dozens of creepers/pests/rapists I can live with that. If the business had done a better job policing themselves no one would be in this position. I'm more concerned with the scores of women who've had to live in silence because no one believed them and/or were gaslit IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Looks like Riddle's debut has been pulled from Smackdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 It's looking mighty suspect that Riddle and Devlin's responses both have some variation of them claiming to be the real victim of a vengeful ex. That very well may be true, but it's very suspect and very typical of an abusive gaslighter to try to flip the tables on the accuser rather than just denying the claims made against them. Apparently someone else came forward stating they were party to Riddle bragging he had his way with another woman similar to what the person making the accusation said, so his rebuttal is ringing especially hollow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 WWE-contracted wrestlers will also have more institutional backing for pursuing lawsuits against accusers, something both Riddle and Devlin seemed to indicate they are going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, sek69 said: It's looking mighty suspect that Riddle and Devlin's responses both have some variation of them claiming to be the real victim of a vengeful ex. That very well may be true, but it's very suspect and very typical of an abusive gaslighter to try to flip the tables on the accuser rather than just denying the claims made against them. Apparently someone else came forward stating they were party to Riddle bragging he had his way with another woman similar to what the person making the accusation said, so his rebuttal is ringing especially hollow. Any links to that second part, Bubba? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 With a lawyer like this, Riddle is in great hands. 1. The lawyer is too stupid to scan a document or draft a press release. Instead, he took a photo of a piece of paper with his phone. 2. On top of that, the lawyer is too stupid to use a clean sheet of paper. BROOOOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Just now, C.S. said: Â Kind of them to pick a pre-tattoo picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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