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AEW All Out 2020

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A couple of years ago, I passed out in my bathroom and banged my head on the garbage bin. I puked my guts out on the way to the hospital in the ambulance and while no doctor formally told me I had one, I'm fairly confident that I did have a concussion and I'm sure that the violence of the impact of my head was nowhere near Matt's bump last night. So, I'm also very skeptical about this myself.

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Matt Sydal was doing shows for ROH (he's in the Pure tournament I think) so at best he's not exclusive to AEW. 

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Hate to say it as an AEW fan but this was easily the worst of their big shows.  Not bad per se, just meh overall.  Match layout was poor, the inconsistent crowd heat (partly due to the actual heat) hurt things, and then just some unfortunate botches up and down the card.  Some of this was a bit out of their control, but everything combined left me with a not so great taste in my mouth

- I actually sort of enjoyed the Tooth & Nail match.  It wasn't good, but some of the stuff was cute.  Why the hell did this open the show?  It would have been much better as a palate cleanser somewhere else on the card.....inexplicable to begin the show with this wrestlecrap and they deserve all the shit they get for that

- The ACTUAL opener was exactly what it should have been.  I'm a big Bucks fan and every one of their matches feels like a big deal to me, even if this was basically just a placeholder match to give them a win.  I went from thinking Luchasaurus had a lot of potential to being pretty unimpressed with him.  The act has worn thin, he moves at half speed at times making everything look overly choreographed, and I don't know if he ever fully recovered from that leg injury he had a year ago.  Time to give Jungle Boy a singles push IMO, stick Marko and the Dinosaur on Dark.

- Battle Royale wasn't very good.  I like the setup and rules but this was lacking the kind of cohesive storytelling and pre-planned spots/scenarios that I expect a match like this to deliver.  Pretty disjointed and sloppy, nobody really came out of it looking all that great.  I felt horrible for Sydal and it really took me out of the match.  I really like him so I hope he recovers from this.  It does get to how I hate guys doing flippy highspots in battle royales with crowded rings, but that's a rant for another day.  I don't believe those were real thumbtacks but if they were wtf were they thinking making everyone else in the match have to bump around them.  I love Archer so I'm glad he won, looking forward to him and Mox as a tv match they build up for a month.

- Nothing to add to the Hardy situation other than he was clearly out and Aubrey did the right thing to first initially pause the match, then call it off when Hardy couldn't even stand under his own power.  I'm not going to give AEW a pass here, there is NO FUCKING WAY THEY SHOULD HAVE FINISHED.  And a finish involving a damn scaffold no less.  This put such a sour taste in my mouth and AEW trying to spin it makes it even worse.  You can't pass a fucking concussion protocol in like 2 minutes like they claim he did.  Fuck AEW for this.

Wasn't the whole idea behind Broken Matt to save him from killing himself?  Why is he doing stupid shit and why is AEW allowing it?  I don't want to see him fall off of stuff like it's 2000 all over again, I enjoy the smoke and mirrors and comedy of Broken Matt.  Hopefully this is a wakeup call for everyone involved.

And one more thing on that.....enough with the WWE style gimmicked crash pads for big bumps.  It sucks.  It sucks when WWE does it, and AEW is supposed to be better than that

- I liked Shida and Thunder Rosa but this needed a crowd.  It at least got me back into the show after being disgusted at the Hardy stuff.  The other thing that stood out is how much better than Shida Thunder Rosa is and how the wrong woman won, but I understand the reasons why.  Bringing in Rosa, Dinaminta and Ivalesse has exposed how bad the regular women's roster is. 

- Eight man was good.  Cardona is out of place.  He looks like a million bucks but he's the exact kind of WWE castoff they shouldn't be using IMO.  Nothing against him and I kind of feel bad saying that,  but it is what it is.  Every time I ask myself "why are they using QT freakin Marshall so much" I'm reminded he's really good in the ring, so I don't really mind him in this role.  I enjoy Cabana as a sort of Stevie Richards of the Dark Order so I liked the story there.  Dustin cut a hell of a promo afterwards, looking forward to him and Brodie.  They had really good chemistry during the Rhodes Bros. vs. Wyatts stuff.

- Tag title match was really good, would have been much better with a real crowd.  I can see the complaint that it went a bit too long, but I didn't mind the length.  Tully hasn't been a good fit with FTR IMO, which is surprising and disappointing to me.  The storytelling with the Elite has gone off the rails a bit with me.  It had been great all year until recently, but they're starting to lose me.

- I have mixed feelings on the Orange Cassidy push.  He works so much better with a crowd, and while it's nice that Jericho elevated him.....elevated him to what exactly?  Where does he go from here?  I like Cassidy in a mid-card role but it's hard for me to buy him as more than that.  Jericho is my guy but this feels like him trying to prove a point more than making a guy longterm.  That said, the right guy won and the match was fun for what it was.

And this is where I get to my biggest criticism of the show:  TOO FUCKING LONG.  And I didn't even watch the pre-show stuff.  I was so burnt out at this point that I tapped out before the main event, which I hear was very good.  I don't think that's what AEW wants.  I'll check it out eventually, but I had more than enough AEW in one sitting at this point.  I imagine I'll like the match, but it won't be enough to change my overall thoughts on the show

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2 hours ago, cm funk said:

And one more thing on that.....enough with the WWE style gimmicked crash pads for big bumps.  It sucks.  It sucks when WWE does it, and AEW is supposed to be better than that

Agreed. This is one thing that comes with the territory after 20 years of WWE monopoly, some stuff they do are so ingrained in people's mind that it seems there's no other way, but I've hated this shit since day one when I saw Shane O-Mac do it in like 1999. Looks stupid. It didn't bother me in the Stadium Stampede match because it was such a ridiculous jump plus it was an offensive move, but I don't need to see people climb up stuff and take a dive on a crash pad and pretend they are dead.

2 hours ago, cm funk said:

Cardona is out of place.  He looks like a million bucks but he's the exact kind of WWE castoff they shouldn't be using IMO.  Nothing against him and I kind of feel bad saying that,  but it is what it is.

My feelings exactly. Maybe he'll win me over, but at this point, he's got the old TNA syndrome. Not what I want from AEW at all. Give me guys like Sydal instead, indeed.

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Isn't Cardona on a limited appearance deal? I think he's maybe got one more left, in which case they should feed him to Brodie and send him packing. Brodie running through Dustin this week and Cardona the next is a nice way to tee up Cody coming back.

I think they need to reboot a few things coming out of this show. I think Jericho needs to step back from TV for a couple of weeks and rediscover the serious edge he had when he was champion. Orange Cassidy is a fun little midcard act but he has no business in the semi-main of a PPV going over Chris Jericho. You're doing more to diminish Jericho than you are to push Cassidy because that gimmick has a pretty obvious ceiling. Jericho is getting a little too enamoured with the idea that he can get anyone over and elevate them to main event status. That's all well and good when it's the right person but he needs to remember that he needs to keep on presenting himself as a star and as a serious threat.

They need to pull the trigger on the Kenny and Bucks heel turn on Hangman this week as well. Get things moving again because the last PPV cycle has been their weakest thus far; some storylines were allowed to get a bit too stale and too much goofiness has crept in again. Khan needs to take the reigns again and they need to get Cody back in the room.

And Matt Hardy does not need to wrestle ever again. I feel bad for the guy getting so badly hurt but he shouldn't even be doing matches let alone insane bumps like that. And what's worse is that if the bump went off ok, they would have moved on to the next spot and we wouldn't have even remembered but by half way through the next match. Gigantic risk for fuck all reward.

Mox vs Archer will be something good to build towards though.

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I think the idea with OC is for him to be the super popular mid-carder than can assist in drawing ratings/revenue but never to be a serious main-event guy. To achieve that, he needed to win because with his gimmick he is hardly going to be seen as "cool" if he just loses all the time (and before the Jericho win he pretty much was losing every big match).

The Matt Hardy stuff was egregious. Just call off the match. The AEW audience, and really any audience, should understand if a match is called off due to a real-life injury. Call it off, and change the future booking, it's not a big deal.

Agree that the Elite story line should have had a bigger progression on this show. It was essentially just teased at more, albeit in a more blunt manner. I like the slow-build stuff but there is a point where it becomes too slow.

The Sydal thing was tough to watch but not totally unexpected. I don't know if it was directly related, but there were some botches in the Bucks match due to the ropes being too tight. In the next match they were clearly looser, and looked a bit too loose. Sydal botched because his foot was on the turnbuckle and it moved significantly when he jumped. I don't know if the rope tightness was relevant at all, but they should definitely look at how those turnbuckle pads behave.

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49 minutes ago, World's Worst Man said:

I think the idea with OC is for him to be the super popular mid-carder than can assist in drawing ratings/revenue but never to be a serious main-event guy. To achieve that, he needed to win because with his gimmick he is hardly going to be seen as "cool" if he just loses all the time (and before the Jericho win he pretty much was losing every big match).

He is Jimmy Valiant?

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I just assumed the ropes and stuff were pretty slippy because of the sweat and humidity as opposed to being too tight. Daily's Place being an outdoor venue is a blessing and a curse for them in that they can get some fans in but the wresters are going to suffer in the heat.

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The plus side of the show was Mox putting in an excellent performance as the ace champ. Ue might be the best world champ in wrestling right now

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I have to say that the Sydal/Shockmaster comparisons are seriously overblown. The problem with the Shockmaster went well beyond his entrance. It was an attempt to repackage Tugboat as a main eventer by putting a glittery Stormtrooper helmet on him and having Ole Anderson cut promos in a Dr. Claw voice. It would have sucked ass even if the entrance had gone off without a hitch. In fact, he probably did WCW a favor by mercy killing the gimmick right out the gate. I'm sure anybody who would purchase an AEW PPV knows who Matt Sydal is and likely has seen him successfully hit a shooting star press hundreds of times. Brock Lesnar was able to live down nearly breaking his neck attempting a SSP in the main event of Wrestlemania. Sydal will be fine.

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4 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I have to say that the Sydal/Shockmaster comparisons are seriously overblown. The problem with the Shockmaster went well beyond his entrance. It was an attempt to repackage Tugboat as a main eventer by putting a glittery Stormtrooper helmet on him and having Ole Anderson cut promos in a Dr. Claw voice. It would have sucked ass even if the entrance had gone off without a hitch. In fact, he probably did WCW a favor by mercy killing the gimmick right out the gate. I'm sure anybody who would purchase an AEW PPV knows who Matt Sydal is and likely has seen him successfully hit a shooting star press hundreds of times. Brock Lesnar was able to live down nearly breaking his neck attempting a SSP in the main event of Wrestlemania. Sydal will be fine.

Thank You.

Ever since those Botchamania videos became a thing, there has been a subset of wrestling fans who just seem obsessed with finding every little thing they can and then screaming "BOTCH" at the top of their lungs, or asking each other if it was a botch, and to me it is one of the single most annoying things in the world. To the point that I actively despise the word Botch now.

Sure, Sabu fell and crotched himself attempting a triple jump moonsault. I'm sure these assholes behind their keyboards posting about it repeatedly could do much better.

This Sydal thing is just another example. Nearly a hundred degrees out there, ropes are covered in sweat and moisture, and the dude is probably amped up to be debuting and moving a little faster than usual. He slipped and fell. Shit Happens. It looked bad, thankfully he wasn't hurt, and he got up and continued. Can we move on?

 

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1 hour ago, Matt D said:

He is Jimmy Valiant?

Yes, exactly. He can be a strong mid carder for a long time but unless he really fully ditches some aspects of the gimmick, he probably can't be a main eventer. 

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6 hours ago, FMKK said:

I think Jericho needs to step back from TV for a couple of weeks and rediscover the serious edge he had when he was champion. Orange Cassidy is a fun little midcard act but he has no business in the semi-main of a PPV going over Chris Jericho. You're doing more to diminish Jericho than you are to push Cassidy because that gimmick has a pretty obvious ceiling. Jericho is getting a little too enamoured with the idea that he can get anyone over and elevate them to main event status. That's all well and good when it's the right person but he needs to remember that he needs to keep on presenting himself as a star and as a serious threat.

I dunno, dude. He put Fandango over at Wrestlemania. While that did nothing for the dancing wrestler, Jericho wasn't exactly hurt by it.

Plus, OC is way better than Dango, so it's not like it devaluates Jericho, even if it doesn't work out in terms of making a mega main event star.

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Hope no one thinks I said Sydal shouldn't have been signed because of his "Shockmaster" botch. I agree with the above that it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things and not even an accurate comparison. 

The reason I think Sydal shouldn't be signed is because AEW already has a bunch of guys who can do Sydal's style, and they're all younger and better at it, period. 

As for Jericho-Orange Cassidy, I was going to bring up the Fandango comparison myself. That did nothing for either guy. I wouldn't quite put Orange Cassidy in the same category, as he definitely has more upside and can be a draw for the company. But I do agree they have to be very careful about who Jericho puts over, how, and why. 

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I don't necessarily know if we can actually use the Fandango comparison with Orange Cassidy here. Let's remember that when Jericho put him over at Wrestlemania 29, that was Fandango's debut. The only thing we had to judge by before that was the vignettes and nothing really substantial in terms of in-ring. In Cassidy's case, he's proven to be very over with the AEW core audience and while I agree that Cassidy shouldn't be in the main event picture in any way, shape or form, he's still proven to be a great commodity for AEW and has shown his worth during that summer-long program with Jericho. The question now becomes where do you slot Cassidy next that will make him look equally as good as he did against Jericho?

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54 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

I don't necessarily know if we can actually use the Fandango comparison with Orange Cassidy here. Let's remember that when Jericho put him over at Wrestlemania 29, that was Fandango's debut. The only thing we had to judge by before that was the vignettes and nothing really substantial in terms of in-ring. In Cassidy's case, he's proven to be very over with the AEW core audience and while I agree that Cassidy shouldn't be in the main event picture in any way, shape or form, he's still proven to be a great commodity for AEW and has shown his worth during that summer-long program with Jericho. The question now becomes where do you slot Cassidy next that will make him look equally as good as he did against Jericho?

He needs a Paul Jones

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I watched the PPV the way God intended - in fits and starts at my in-laws over the course of a holiday weekend, right before I went to sleep and just as I would wake up (their house is small and they never replaced my wife's single bed, so I'm on a pullout couch when we stay over).

The $50 price tag is absurd, but I'm fortunate enough to be able to indulge a few times a year (mercifully, they have not yet gone to a PPV per month model). I skipped the last one, as that was right as the pandemic began (I think?), and I was able to catch a few matches on youtube the next day. I went for this one, interested in at least four of the matches, and having seen everything but the eight man tag...I don't regret it.

Can't add anything to the Hardy discourse. Real bad stuff and hopefully they learn from this. Not letting Hardy wrestle again this year would be the minimum.

I hate botch culture, too, but the Sydal thing was a big time woofer and took me out of the battle royal. As silly as it sounds, it may not have been as bad for me had his entrance video not flashed 'SSP' in giant block letters moments earlier. I think I knew his name, but had never seen him before, but immediately promoting him as a presumed SSP specialist only to lead to...that was no bueno.

I should keep reminding myself that it's nuts they've all been wrestling in the peak of terrible Florida humidity for months, Saturday night included, and judge some matches accordingly. I liked the FTR match, but didn't think it hit that extra level, and maybe it couldn't given the heat.

Moxley/MJF was real solid. Not a classic and not something i'm likely to revisit, but they told a good story and I was fine with the fuck finish. Don't know what they do with Archer to make the result any more obvious than what they did with Moxley/Lee earlier this summer.

Oh yeah...this has applied for real sports the last few years for me, too, where everyone bitches about announcing all the time, but unless it's really obvious and grating (Mauro :( ), I'm able to tune it out. Same with JR in AEW. I'm sure the product would be improved by just letting Excalibur and Tony handle things, with the occassional third voice thrown in (Taz has been solid, from what I pay attention to), but I'm really not hanging on every word and really even paying attention that much. I know that's not feedback the company should rely on, of course.

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2 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

I dunno, dude. He put Fandango over at Wrestlemania. While that did nothing for the dancing wrestler, Jericho wasn't exactly hurt by it.

Plus, OC is way better than Dango, so it's not like it devaluates Jericho, even if it doesn't work out in terms of making a mega main event star.

Chris Jericho was in no way a main event act for WWE between 2013 and whenever he left. Doing shit like that is what helped make him into a comedy sideshow while other people from his era got to be the part time Mania payday guys. There's a place for silly stuff with him because of his quick wit and ridiculous character but too much and he loses his dangerous edge.

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On 9/6/2020 at 6:24 PM, Boss Rock said:

 From what I'm seeing folks say, neither test for a concussion. So this definitely looks like damage control.

Yeah its intentionally misleading. Imaging can determine if a person suffered a concussion, but it can't prove that a concussion didn't happen. Most concussions don't show up on imaging. That's why baseline test and physical and emotional symptoms are used far more often than imaging to diagnose concussions. Anybody who has been around been around sports especially football would know this.

 

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I didn't catch all of the show on Saturday so re-watched pretty much the entire thing (except Hardy-Guevara) and honestly I don't think it was a bad show. Not as good as the previous 3 which were all excellent, but not bad either.

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As if the show didn't have enough actual problems on its own, a complete non-issue was briefly blown up about AEW apparently banning reporters asking tough questions from their media scrum, something which has now been definitively debunked. I am not sure of all the details of how it started, but to absolutely no one's surprise Jonathan Evilclown Snowden is in the middle of it all

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