AEW TV - 9/7-9/9 - Who Throws A Chair, Honestly

[Embrodak]

Gotta say, if I’m Punk and potentially staring down another surgery, I’m thinking about just hanging it up. Whether it’s just too many accumulated bumps, bad training, decades of insomnia, or too many muffins, a major injury in your first real match back from the previous injury feels a lot like a “wheels falling off” moment. Hard to have legitimacy in the fans’ eyes going forward, even if they forgive you for all this bullshit or accept you as a heel, when they perceive you as held together with chewing gum and duct tape.

[Flyin' Brian]

5 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

Gotta say, if I’m Punk and potentially staring down another surgery, I’m thinking about just hanging it up. Whether it’s just too many accumulated bumps, bad training, decades of insomnia, or too many muffins, a major injury in your first real match back from the previous injury feels a lot like a “wheels falling off” moment. Hard to have legitimacy in the fans’ eyes going forward, even if they forgive you for all this bullshit or accept you as a heel, when they perceive you as held together with chewing gum and duct tape.

Danielson got held out quite a while after suffering a concussion at Double or Nothing and also hurt his leg after getting it trapped in the set and missed some time, no one is accusing him of being fragile and saying he should hang it up. 

[strobogo]

Danielson is also in much better physical shape and much more athletic and hasn't been tearing muscles and shattering bones. 

[Embrodak]

1 hour ago, Flyin' Brian said:

Danielson got held out quite a while after suffering a concussion at Double or Nothing and also hurt his leg after getting it trapped in the set and missed some time, no one is accusing him of being fragile and saying he should hang it up. 

Danielson was kept out intentionally longer than protocol because of his history with concussions, though. Punk had a terrible foot injury, was out three months, came back, wrestled one and a half matches, and now has a pectoral tear that will have him out for at least several weeks, if it’s minor, or many months following a surgery, if it’s major. He just turned a significant chunk of the audience and the locker room against him, and nobody else in the promotion other than FTR is really getting on board with “Let’s try to wrestle like it’s the mid 90s again”, however much I wish they would. I love what Punk has done in AEW so far, I’m sympathetic to him in all this fracas (and as was said by someone in the other thread, the fact that Parek saw what happened and both Punk and Steel seem not to be headed for a firing as of right now suggests that their version of events is not total bullshit), but at this point, if his mission was to come in and steer the promotion toward a more mainstream audience and more classical style of wrestling, that’s pretty clearly been a failure.

 

Also, I actually do think there’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s responsible to keep booking Danielson in a promotion where they’re constantly doing hardcore matches and people have a nasty habit of dropping people on their heads and necks.

[Jmare007]

The responsible thing for Danielson was to not wrestle again back in 2018. WWE let him do it because he was going to wrestle somewhere else anyway. They were going to try to let him wrestle in New Japan to keep him away from AEW in 2021. That dude will continue to wrestle in a reckless manner wherever the hell he wants (according to him, in a more limited capacity after 2024 but he's also a guy who is constantly changing his mind) and it's really naive to think any promotion wont let him do it. Being responsible towards talent has never been something wrestling is known for, much less with talent that is as beloved by fans and useful to a company as Danielson.

And Punk not getting fired could also be because dude got injured in an AEW ring and letting him go just as he's about to get surgery is probably not as easy to do without some potential legal fuckery.

 

 

[SirEdger]

4 hours ago, strobogo said:

Danielson is also in much better physical shape and much more athletic and hasn't been tearing muscles and shattering bones. 

But I also think that it depends on your perception of said wrestler. While for some it's defined as freak accidents and bad timing, others are perceived as "injury-prone" if your opinion of them is tepid at best. 

[Flyin' Brian]

Looks like it’s going to be a long time. Probably 8 months at least. I’m sure there will be many people happy to hear that news. 
 

Cody tore a pec too in one of his first big matches in WWE. Cena tore his pec once upon a time. It happens. Usually isn’t celebrated, but whatever. 
 

Who has he really turned against him? Sounds like it’s all just people who were against him before turning up the volume on the I told you so’s after they had been pretty quiet for the past year while Punk has wrestled several matches without issue and no reports of problems backstage that I heard until recently. 

I guess since Punk is gone all the problems will just magically go away now, since it’s all his fault, at least in some people‘a eyes. We’ll see. 
 

 

 

[Timbo Slice]

So the timeline now looks like this:

-Punk tries to mentor younger guys and it doesn’t get received well, most specifically by Page, leading to resentment, along with his general curmudgeonly nature turning off certain parts of the locker room that were more or less harmonious (where many folks feel Cabana leaving given his positive backstage standing with the locker room can be attributed to Punk’s arrival)

-Resentment grows to the point where Adam Page becomes the focal point during their feud, and Page uses that as a way to go into business for himself during the money promo for their PPV match, which Punk takes as an opportunity to have a receipt ready when necessary

-Receipt is given by Punk after his injury, which raises simmering ires to unseen levels, isolating Punk more than what has happened the previous several months

-Punk then gets hurt again, knows it’s going to put him out for a long time again, and being pissed off, takes the simmering ires completely nuclear, going scorched earth due to frustration both with the gossipy nature of the locker room angling against him and his own body betraying him during a run he really wanted

-The Elite takes Punk’s comments to heart given they perceive themselves as big in stature as Punk (objectively not true) and haven’t been called out like that before, so they respond in kind and the altercation happens

The escalation seems about as organic as you could imagine given the participants’ proclivities and differing philosophies. And something that, if there were adults in the room, could have been handled a lot sooner. This isn’t something that just suddenly happened. Tony letting this play out was a giant mistake.

[Flyin' Brian]

1 hour ago, Timbo Slice said:

So the timeline now looks like this:

-Punk tries to mentor younger guys and it doesn’t get received well, most specifically by Page, leading to resentment, along with his general curmudgeonly nature turning off certain parts of the locker room that were more or less harmonious (where many folks feel Cabana leaving given his positive backstage standing with the locker room can be attributed to Punk’s arrival)

-Resentment grows to the point where Adam Page becomes the focal point during their feud, and Page uses that as a way to go into business for himself during the money promo for their PPV match, which Punk takes as an opportunity to have a receipt ready when necessary

-Receipt is given by Punk after his injury, which raises simmering ires to unseen levels, isolating Punk more than what has happened the previous several months

-Punk then gets hurt again, knows it’s going to put him out for a long time again, and being pissed off, takes the simmering ires completely nuclear, going scorched earth due to frustration both with the gossipy nature of the locker room angling against him and his own body betraying him during a run he really wanted

-The Elite takes Punk’s comments to heart given they perceive themselves as big in stature as Punk (objectively not true) and haven’t been called out like that before, so they respond in kind and the altercation happens

The escalation seems about as organic as you could imagine given the participants’ proclivities and differing philosophies. And something that, if there were adults in the room, could have been handled a lot sooner. This isn’t something that just suddenly happened. Tony letting this play out was a giant mistake.

I agree with you on everything but the first paragraph. Before Page’s promo on Punk and interview where he said he doesn’t listen to veterans, when has anyone said or reported before then that anyone had a problem with Punk and anything he had said or done in AEW?

[Gramsci]

Danielson has said multiple times that his brain is healthier than a normal person's. I don't know if this is true or not, maybe he is lying to us, but my feeling has always been that he feels ok and it's been proved that WWE forced him to retire in 2016 when he could have continued wrestling.

He also said that this is his last contract as a full-time wrestler and then he will sign a part-time contract, which means he will wrestle 20 or 30 matches a year. He has no plans to retire and he wants to wrestle until he is 70 years old.

It's funny how Punk sees himself, like this veteran that young wrestlers have to take advice from, when they built the biggest 2n wrestling company in the US since WCW while he embarrassed himself in the UFC. I love Punk, he's always been one of my favorite wrestlers, but it's delusional for him to come to AEW and tell Page, The Bucks and whoever to slow down and be "smarter" in the ring (whatever that that means) when they have created all of this. He seems like a boomer, an asshole and an egomaniac.

[The Nicks]

Is there a source that clarifies if Punk attempts to give advice were also dismissed by the younger wrestlers?

I can understand the Elite logic but i totally wonder if guys who actually grow up watching him were unreceptive to his words.

 

[sek69]

16 minutes ago, The Nicks said:

I can understand the Elite logic but i totally wonder if guys who actually grow up watching him were unreceptive to his words.

Part of growing up watching Punk means you know he's kind of an asshole. It was part of his charm (as weird as it sounds). It's not like someone meeting Mr. Rogers and finding out he drops f-bombs. His whole deal was the asshole who didn't give a fuck what the veterans said, he was going to do things his way. Which is what makes what he turned into especially hilarious. 

[Embrodak]

9 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Part of growing up watching Punk means you know he's kind of an asshole. It was part of his charm (as weird as it sounds). It's not like someone meeting Mr. Rogers and finding out he drops f-bombs. His whole deal was the asshole who didn't give a fuck what the veterans said, he was going to do things his way. Which is what makes what he turned into especially hilarious. 

See this is really weird to me, because I don’t remember Punk being “anti-veteran” in any kind of programmatic sense. He spoke absolutely reverentially about Eddie Guerrero when he was at his peak, in that doc WWE made. He specifically disliked the Kliq, and Vince’s physique fetishization, and WWE’s rigid corporate structure and rules, but he never worked or talked like he didn’t value the legacy of wrestling, or those who had proven themselves quality performers. It feels like people are operating off a kind of ossified sense of who they think or thought Punk was when he was last active, or retrofitting a long-standing distaste for him into some cutout of hypocrisy that, to me, seems ill-fitting. For better or worse, this CM Punk is acting exactly congruently with *my* memory of him since at least the pipe bomb, so I’m not sure what people are getting at with this stuff.

[C.S.]

Something I've been wondering: What happened to Dan Lambert?

Did he get Tullied?

[sek69]

Someone mentioned earlier how Punk had a more bulked up looking upper body when he came back, and his injury was confirmed to be a tricep tear (which is one of those "tends to happen when you are on the gas" tears). 

Not sayin, just sayin. 

[KawadaSmile]

8 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Someone mentioned earlier how Punk had a more bulked up looking upper body when he came back, and his injury was confirmed to be a tricep tear (which is one of those "tends to happen when you are on the gas" tears). 

Not sayin, just sayin. 

THIS STRAIGHT EDGE AIN'T STRAIGHTIN' BUBBA

Triple Punk and CM Helmsley are very similar, indeed!

[Dale Wolfe]

Fenix has a great cutter/rko/stunner you know

Feel like they should make a lot more of it

[C.S.]

Sammy beats Darby.

Imagine doubling-down on this guy.

Read the room, Tony, instead of just staring blankly around it.

[The Thread Killer]

I’m good with a Danielson/Guevara final, with Danielson winning the World Title. I have no interest in seeing Jericho/Moxley again and I live in fear of the possibility that is the direction they are going. 

[sek69]

I still think somehow MJF ends up with the title at Arthur Ashe and has a program with Moxley.

[C.S.]

MJF said he can use his chip at any time. I think he Seth Rollins his way into the finals and wins. 

[Embrodak]

I kinda love Darby, he’s like Jeff Hardy with Shawn Michaels’ selling and charisma, but he is very tiny even for AEW.

Tony referencing Corny in his Tweet promoting Rampage is really weird, considering Corny doesn’t watch Rampage and like 80% of his online audience wants to do a Moxley promo to the guy.

[Stiva]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

MJF said he can use his chip at any time. I think he Seth Rollins his way into the finals and wins. 

AEW turning the chip into a MITB rip-off could maybe be the thing that turns me away. I HATE that shit. Especially when you could just have Danielson win the belt, have MJFs crew and the BCC orbit each other and then do MJF/Danielson for the belt at Full Gear or one of the Christmas Dynamites

[WingedEagle]

I really wish I appreciated Castagnoli as much as everyone else does but he rarely clicks at that level regardless of opponent.  We're just oil and water.

[KawadaSmile]

I am a huge fan of Claudio, I think he is honestly one of the greatest wrestlers ever, but I 100% get what you are saying. I guess that is the biggest reason he never really got a serious main event, world title run.