CM Punk Fired

[Embrodak]

5 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I've been wondering ever since the media scrum and "Brawl Out" aftermath if Punk is mentally okay. 

I hope he is, and with his wife being a mental health expert, that would be something she'd probably be more attuned to.

Still though...

I think he had visions of riding in and steering the product toward his vision of wrestling by sheer reputation and force of personality, and when he not only couldn’t do that but found that large swaths of the talent didn’t look at him the way he looked at Eddie Guerrero or Tracy Smothers, he just got progressively more pissed and despondent. I get that some people are tired of the bullshit, but even Punk’s pissy, persecution complex backstage persona is compelling to me.

[pmo]

33 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Is he, though? The most prominent lawsuit he was a part of was one in which he was the defendant. Regardless, the fact that AEW terminated him for cause rather than buying out his contract means they likely have him dead to rights and any litigation would be an open-and-shut case in their favor.

Possibly, my thought is that yeah they might have an open and shut case but to get there they're going to have show the EVPs or TK in a very unflattering light.  

[C.S.]

20 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

large swaths of the talent didn’t look at him the way he looked at Eddie Guerrero or Tracy Smothers

I wonder who they do look at in that light, if anyone?

I think part of the problem is they think they're already better than all the veteran talent, or at least that's Punk's perception of them.

Hangman didn't help himself when he said he didn't need anyone's advice, or whatever it was. A weird statement, because surely he has taken advice from Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks, Bullet Club, etc.

[Coffey]

25 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I wonder who they do look at in that light, if anyone?

If I were a betting man? Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio. Guys like that. Small guys or high flying guys or high flying small guys that got over but weren't necessarily great on the mic. That kind of feels like the direction pro wrestling went, at least for the likes of AEW talent.

Not to say that RVD was small, just those names popped into my head.

[strobogo]

35 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I've been wondering ever since the media scrum and "Brawl Out" aftermath if Punk is mentally okay. 

I hope he is, and with his wife being a mental health expert, that would be something she'd probably be more attuned to.

Still though...

Punk has acted this way his entire career. Dude was getting into fights with co-workers in IWA MS, TNA, ROH, pissed off vets in WWE, constantly paranoid people were using him or going to double cross him, cutting off friends over the most minor of offenses said friends might not even know they made.

There has never not been a swirl of drama and conflict with Punk. Brawl Out was wildly unprofessional that he said all of that shit right next to his boss in front of press, but wasn't exactly out of character or unusual in the career of Hey Phil.

[fxnj]

6 minutes ago, Coffey said:

If I were a betting man? Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio. Guys like that. Small guys or high flying guys or high flying small guys that got over but weren't necessarily great on the mic. That kind of feels like the direction pro wrestling went, at least for the likes of AEW talent.

Smaller high flying guys like Sting, Eddie Kingston, and Samoa Joe? That narrative doesn't fit at all when you have all these vets with no issues fitting in, but then one lone guy whining about respect who keeps getting into shoot fights and cutting off-script promos.

[El-P]

CM Punk is the leaving breathing demonstration of the old sayin' "If you meet one asshole during the day, that sucks. If you meet two assholes, that's really bad luck. If you meet only assholes, you're most probably the asshole".

The guy was asked to be a part of AEW's foundation alongside Jericho and Omega, those were the three names TK wanted to start with. Two took the risk and contributed to build a successful pro-wresting alternative, alongside Cody, Mox and the Bucks. Punk's "love" for pro-wrestling I guess wasn't strong enough back then, or maybe he did not had the balls to take an actual risk. Only when AEW was hot and successful enough (built on the backs of people who have "accomplished nothing" apparently), he finally choose to join in and was given the red carpet treatment. But it wasn't enough and he managed to flip his lid and still act like an unprofessional shit, like only he can. Then he was brought back and even given his own TV show, his own little kingdom because "he's a big star" and that's how it works. It would be "a drama free environment". It took what, 5, 6 weeks before drama surged up *again*. AEW just had the biggest paid crowd ever, a stadium show that just pulverized whatever number they were supposed to do. Hell, some people talked about how ridiculous 20.000 people would look at Wembley. Nope. Bigger than Andre vs Hogan. And what was the talk of the day ? Another CM Punk drama and backstage fight (that is, of course, never his fault).

Ryan Nemeth was actually spot on : softest guy ever. Overinflated ego and sense of self-importance. Toxic as fuck as his *entire* career as now demonstrated. I'm actually amazed that there is still people simping for this guy and trying to find excuses. Guess what, AEW got hot before CM Punk. Sure, he boosted their business for a PPV or two and a few big ratings. Short term. His comebacks were already diminishing returns. I for one was on the verge of not watching Collision anymore because there was no reason to even invest in what he was doing, because it was surefire he was gonna act like a prick again and the product would get fucked. Jay White and the boys really kept me there. 

To quote an hilarious post on reddit : Dude wanted to be Bret Hart, he ended up Austin Aries.

Cheers.

[Coffey]

13 minutes ago, fxnj said:

Smaller high flying guys like Sting, Eddie Kingston, and Samoa Joe? That narrative doesn't fit at all when you have all these vets with no issues fitting in, but then one lone guy whining about respect who keeps getting into shoot fights and cutting off-script promos.

I think there's some miscommunication here. I was talking about who the guys like Jungle Boy probably looked at in the way that Punk looked at Smothers or Piper, not who they could get along with. I feel like their influences were probably more high flying wrestlers.

[MLB]

What kind of advice do veterans actually have to offer aside, "slow down, kid."

[Robert S]

I read over the coverage of the incident in the latest Observer and there is an almost hidden tidbit that might have had a huge influence and the handling of the situation:

Quote

Unlike with other situations, the belief is that there were surveillance cameras with footage of all of what happened.

I would assume that said footage makes Punk look VERY bad, i.e. that the version where Punk sucker punched Perry is the one closest to the truth. Because I would assume firing Punk outright would only be an option if you have no fear at all of a lawsuit.

[The Man in Blak]

Should have never got to this point. 

TK never should have brought Punk in without explicitly addressing the elephant in the room with Cabana. 

TK or the EVPs or whoever is allegedly management/leadership in this shitwreck should have squared things away after both Page and Punk were shooting on each other before Brawl Out.

TK shouldn’t have brought Punk and the Elite back if they weren’t willing to work with each other; a soft brand split isn’t/wasn’t a solution as much as a deferral of the real problem.

Punk is an impossible asshole, but firing him can be both the right decision and also something that’s ultimately more of an indictment on the company rather than the individual.

[KawadaSmile]

 

Let's go, Punker

[Migs]

2 hours ago, Coffey said:

If I were a betting man? Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio. Guys like that. Small guys or high flying guys or high flying small guys that got over but weren't necessarily great on the mic. That kind of feels like the direction pro wrestling went, at least for the likes of AEW talent.

Not to say that RVD was small, just those names popped into my head.

The Bucks, for example, very obviously looked up to Mysterio (in their children's book, a character who is clearly Mysterio is their inspiration) and the Hardyz (evidence everywhere of that). 

I also think there's a lot of people who look up to Danielson and ask him for advice. He's just not a prick about it.

[ButchReedMark]

1 hour ago, MLB said:

What kind of advice do veterans actually have to offer aside, "slow down, kid."

After speaking to a good friend of mine recently who’s just retired, I reckon that’s good advice. He was one of the King of the Indies lot and now his body’s knackered.

[Timbo Slice]

We’ve had this argument countless times since the brawl last year and the only thing I learned is that there still isn’t a fucking adult in the room and firing Punk in response to whatever happened with Perry was hilarious given how Punk was treated when he came back. Playing both sides doesn’t work. Coming to a resolution does, and this wasn’t a resolution. It was a cop out. 
 

Tony doesn’t want his company to become WCW, but it’s happening because he can’t step up and tell everyone to park the fucking pride and just do business together. You lose your biggest draw because you couldn’t figure out how to deal with him, and you dealt with him in ways that played right into his wheelhouse of being a curmudgeon and asshole. Having your cake and eating it too might as well be the damn AEW motto at this point. 

[Boss Rock]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blak said:

Should have never got to this point. 

TK never should have brought Punk in without explicitly addressing the elephant in the room with Cabana. 

TK or the EVPs or whoever is allegedly management/leadership in this shitwreck should have squared things away after both Page and Punk were shooting on each other before Brawl Out.

TK shouldn’t have brought Punk and the Elite back if they weren’t willing to work with each other; a soft brand split isn’t/wasn’t a solution as much as a deferral of the real problem.

Punk is an impossible asshole, but firing him can be both the right decision and also something that’s ultimately more of an indictment on the company rather than the individual.

Think that's where I'm at. This recent situation definitely seems like an instance where they had no choice but to fire him. It just never should've gotten to this point to begin with.

[sek69]

4 hours ago, fxnj said:

Smaller high flying guys like Sting, Eddie Kingston, and Samoa Joe? That narrative doesn't fit at all when you have all these vets with no issues fitting in, but then one lone guy whining about respect who keeps getting into shoot fights and cutting off-script promos.

Those three guys by all accounts don't go around expecting the younger guys to bow at their feet either. 

[strobogo]

Hopefully FTR doesn't do something stupid and torch their careers for a guy named Phil

[Stiva]

It’s a shame that he’s finally gone but really, the man sounds absolutely exhausting. At this point, I’m actually way more interested in a Danielson-Led Collision at this point. The last year or so of backstage nonsense has genuinely soured me on following AEW. 

[MLB]

A very emotional Ricky Starks was clearly distraught over Punk's termination during the opening of Collision. Starks went off on a fiery babyface promo about starting over again, Big Bill getting sober, and Steamboat came out like, "uh, you whipped me...remember?" 

[C.S.]

5 hours ago, strobogo said:

Hopefully FTR doesn't do something stupid and torch their careers for a guy named Phil

If they do, they'll be welcome back to the WWE with open arms by Papa Haitch, who arguably knows how to book them better than even Tony does.

In any case, dumbass Cash is lucky he wasn't fired right along with his buddy. I feel bad for FTR Bald. He hitched his wagon to Cash, who is legitimately one of the dumbest and most unhinged wrestlers ever - and, hoo boy, what a long list that covers!

2 hours ago, MLB said:

A very emotional Ricky Starks was clearly distraught over Punk's termination during the opening of Collision. Starks went off on a fiery babyface promo about starting over again, Big Bill getting sober, and Steamboat came out like, "uh, you whipped me...remember?" 

The Starks heel turn always felt very forced and misguided, so I really hope they go back to what actually works. People want to cheer Starks. 

2 hours ago, Stiva said:

At this point, I’m actually way more interested in a Danielson-Led Collision at this point.

I'm a Punk fan. Yes, even now. But I said right from the start that Tony backed the wrong horse. Punk's push should have been Danielson's all along.

Someone here tried to argue that Danielson wanted to have fun and put others over. I said I don't give a fuck what Danielson wants, and neither should Tony Khan. After all, he's running a business and needs to maximize his assets. That probably didn't go over well with whoever I was discussing this with on PWO, but it remains the truth.

Just like everyone else's anti-Cody stances here aged like rotten milk, while I've been repeatedly proven right about him being the only grown-up in the room among the EVPs and that Tony Khan letting him walk out the door would turn out to be one of the biggest and most catastrophic mistakes in AEW history. Well, the proof's in the pudding.

[MoS]

If Punk really got fired "with cause", it means what happened last Sunday was clearly more than him beating Jack Perry's ass cuz of the on-camera trash talk. Clearly, something else happened. It's a damn pity really, because his vision of wrestling was by far the best of anyone in AEW or modern wrestling or that matter. and his short AEW run has a lot of legendary moments, but in the end, after Brawl Out last year, this was inevitable I guess. Wonder why TK did not change the booking on the fly to have Joe beat Punk at Wembley. 

[MLB]

It sounds like Punk verbally threatened Tony. I'm guessing TK didn't put Joe over because Punk would've taken his ball and went home on the spot.

[MoS]

Punk was apparently not going to wrestle until Joe stepped in and basically told him he was not going to fuck over Joe's spot. Would Punk really have said no to putting Joe over?

[sek69]

The latest Observer has a story about what happened where they tell three sides: one from Punk's side, one from Perry's, and a third from someone not on ether side. I'm assuming it was probably some rando production person who got caught in the crossfire.  The third party's version was Punk went up to Perry to ask if they had a problem and Jack said no. He then mouthed off to Punk and bringing up the "cry me a river" line, and Punk charged at him. Joe then broke up the fight, which was described as "sending monitors flying" since this was happening in Gorilla.  Punk was then yelling that "I QUIT" and lunged at Tony.  I think this is probably the closest to what really happened. The  person relaying the story pretty much said everyone thought Jack shouldn't have poked the bear, but Punk's response was over the top by putting non wrestlers at risk. It also would explain Tony's comments about fearing for his life. 

2 minutes ago, MLB said:

It sounds like Punk verbally threatened Tony. I'm guessing TK didn't put Joe over because Punk would've taken his ball and went home on the spot.

Funny you say that, the Observer went on to say it was Joe's idea for their match to go on next instead (the guys in the six man were warming up to go on next) and do their match as scheduled. He wanted Punk to go as far away as possible from the boss he just tried to throttle I guess hoping cooler heads would prevail by the time they got back?