Dave Meltzer stuff

[Loss]

And he gave Flair-Steamboat at the Capital Centre in '89 ******, too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6efQnQwgo

[Bix]

And he gave Flair-Steamboat at the Capital Centre in '89 ******, too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6efQnQwgo

He told me he gave it 5 3/4 *. I can't find it in the old observers and I always thought the 6* was Jeff Bowdren.

[Grimmas]

Can't we just stick at 5 or go to 10?

 

This 6 star rating system is just bonkers. I'm sorry Dave just because you over use 5 stars, doesn't mean you need to try to fix that with pure sillyness.

[NintendoLogic]

He also apparently retroactively gave 6/3/94 ******, which kind of undermines his argument about wrestling being about time and place, but whatever.

[FMKK]

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/893546747183505408

 

People talk about the dumb questions Dave gets asked on Twitter etc. but he does himself no favours by making disingenuous responses to valid discussion points because they tend towards criticism of his favourite type of wrestling. Wrestlers making concerted attempts to tailor their matches to Dave and hardcore fan opinion is a phenomenon worth discussing imo.

[benj]

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/893546747183505408

 

People talk about the dumb questions Dave gets asked on Twitter etc. but he does himself no favours by making disingenuous responses to valid discussion points because they tend towards criticism of his favourite type of wrestling. Wrestlers making concerted attempts to tailor their matches to Dave and hardcore fan opinion is a phenomenon worth discussing imo.

The Meltzer Effect? Meltzerian Syndrome? PWSD - Pro Wrestling Star Disorder?

[sek69]

If you're wrestling in a place like PWG you should tailor their matches to Dave and the hardcore fan since that's the exact audience you're working in front of.

 

 

I kind of think the internet sometimes amplifies things out of proportion and makes it seem like stuff today's wrestlers do is a new concept. Was HBK trying to impress Dave and the Hardcores (great band name btw) by stealing the show in the 90s? Were Savage and Steamboat trying to impress Dave at WM3? It seems like trying to put on the best match is something top level guys have done since the dawn of time.

[Loss]

It's possible they are working for Dave or hardcore fans, but to be fair, those are the matches that get the loudest reactions at big WWE shows these days as well. So I'm not ready to make that leap. Dave may be what inspired the change, but I wouldn't say pleasing Dave is the totality of what they are going for.

[sek69]

I mean, clearly some guys are but is that so much to impress Dave directly or with the knowledge that there's been times where impressing him has led to getting noticed by bigger companies?

[Victator]

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/893546747183505408

 

People talk about the dumb questions Dave gets asked on Twitter etc. but he does himself no favours by making disingenuous responses to valid discussion points because they tend towards criticism of his favourite type of wrestling. Wrestlers making concerted attempts to tailor their matches to Dave and hardcore fan opinion is a phenomenon worth discussing imo.

I encountered that the other night. He reverts to being a condescending ass at any disagreement. But I try to remember the garbage he encounters online. I would probably already be on a IRL rampage if I dealt with half of that.

[PhilTLL]

I mean, clearly some guys are but is that so much to impress Dave directly or with the knowledge that there's been times where impressing him has led to getting noticed by bigger companies?

This is part of what I'm asking; when and why the working motives of "have great matches to get great reactions, future draws, and better opportunities" were joined by critical motives like "have great matches as an artistic pursuit, compare and canonize them". Savage/Steamboat and Bret/HBK were meticulous matches, designed to be remembered. Does that make them Art Wrestling? (Was Jerry Lawler only artistic by accident, since he'll happily admit to not knowing or caring about exactly which are his Greatest Matches Ever, as opposed to his biggest draws?)

[Loss]

Wrestlers have zero ownership of the perception of their work, and their intent matters little. Once they put it out there, it belongs to all of us.

[Matt D]

Wrestlers have zero ownership of the perception of their work, and their intent matters little. Once they put it out there, it belongs to all of us.

Except for when we do GWE again next month!

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

 

And he gave Flair-Steamboat at the Capital Centre in '89 ******, too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6efQnQwgo

He told me he gave it 5 3/4 *. I can't find it in the old observers and I always thought the 6* was Jeff Bowdren.

 

It's in the 4/3/89 issue.

 

"3/18 at the Capital Centre drew 5,000 and $66,000 as Gilbert pinned Bradley, Reed drew Murdoch, Hayes beat Joey Maggs, Sting pinned Kendall Windham (good), Steiner pinned Sullivan, Luger pinned Windham (very good), Warriors beat Williams and Rotunda after they have Williams the Tenryu/Hara sandwich lariat (very good) and Steamboat pinned Flair in 32 minutes of a match which blew the top off the five star scale. This match was significantly better than their Chicago match and deserved something like 5 ½ to 6 stars as a fair grade. Those in the know were amazed at how good this match was, particularly when they realized they had another match later that night in Philadelphia (which wasn't as good, but was still a fantastic match)."

[Grimmas]

Somebody says: Every time I watch an Ishii match I think he's legit hurt. Either he's a great seller or I'm right.

Meltzer: He's the best seller in the business. Some recognize it. Some don't understand because only understand a singular pattern of wrestling.

I really hate shit like this. The options aren't Ishii is the best or people are stupid.

[WingedEagle]

I really wouldn't get too wrapped up in Twitter opinions from Dave Meltzer or others.

[sek69]

An internet acquaintance of mine has the best phrase for any and all Twitter discussions: The Discourse is Shit.

[sek69]

Dave looking like Nostradamus in the 7/17/2000 WON back issue:

 

 

TV tapings on 7/11 in Oakland before a sellout at the Arena. Prototype (John Sena) beat Damian Steele kind of a spinning back suplex in 4:36. Prototype also was the featured guy at about the same time on the Discovery Channel special. Match was really bad but Prototype showed a ton of charisma and is going to make it some day.

 

[Sidebottom]

Wrestlers have zero ownership of the perception of their work, and their intent matters little. Once they put it out there, it belongs to all of us.

 

Great quote, Loss.

[C.S.]

LOL at this trolling tweet...

 

Baron Corbin‏ @BaronCorbinWWE 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @WrestlingNewsCo

What matches and promos has Dave meltzer done. Ohh none! He is a old man who could never do what anyone on the roster can or could.

https://twitter.com/BaronCorbinWWE/status/895773416879423498

 

Responses:

 

Mike Gilbert‏ @GetUpMike 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @BaronCorbinWWE @WrestlingNewsCo
Uncle Dave is more respected in wrestling than you will ever be.

 

Baron Corbin‏ @BaronCorbinWWE 3h3 hours ago
Respected by who. Losers like you with a profile pic in a high school gym Indy show.

[sek69]

"You can't criticize unless you've done it" really is the weakest though. Not to mention he's clearly never seen a pic of Dave, Vince would push a guy built like him the exact same way Baron has been.

[Shatter_Machine]

"You can't criticize unless you've done it" really is the weakest though. Not to mention he's clearly never seen a pic of Dave, Vince would push a guy built like him the exact same way Baron has been.

And in a few years, Vince will find a new tall guy with middling ability and a smidgen of charisma to push and Corbin will be second from the top on some backwoods indy in rural Ohio somewhere, and we'll all still be following Meltzer on twitter.

[Victator]

Corbin will be second from the top on some backwoods indy in rural Ohio somewhere

 

GFW doesn't run Ohio.

[Loss]

Vince McMahon had never done it until 1998-1999. Therefore, any opinions he expressed before then weren't valid either.

[Victator]

I feel bad for Corbin because that is such an amateur move to make. There is a way to do that attack and not leave yourself open.