Dave Meltzer stuff

[Cox]

Foley's third book I think is what turned me against him for good. I've always been a big fan of his, but hearing him basically whine and cry over 300+ pages that his midcard program with Tommy Dreamer and Terry Funk (two guys who weren't even on regular TV at the time) wasn't given more of a build up on Raw every week was pretty nauseating.

[MikeCampbell]

I was turned off from Foley in 2004 when he had his conniption fit about Flair's comments about him in his book. Not because I agree with what Flair said or why he said it. But because he always praised Vince and the WWF for not removing anything from his books, even when they don't paint the WWF and Vince in a great light. But, he expected them to remove Flair's comments just because they hurt his feelings.

[Grimmas]

On the Bryan and Vinny show they reviewed Cena-HBK vs. Taker-Batista from No Way Out 2007 and claimed that Cena was horrendous in 2007 and he most likely got way better over the last three years from working with HBK.

 

2007 was Cena's best year, from what I recall, wasn't it?

[rovert]

On the Bryan and Vinny show they reviewed Cena-HBK vs. Taker-Batista from No Way Out 2007 and claimed that Cena was horrendous in 2007 and he most likely got way better over the last three years from working with HBK.

 

2007 was Cena's best year, from what I recall, wasn't it?

Yep he had a pretty great match with Umaga the month prior, the match with HBK in London, the miracle match with Khali etc that year.

[Guest Slickster]

Those are some reasons why I'd consider 2007 to be Cena's best year, in fact.

[Dylan Waco]

There were multiple good Khali matches that year. It's pretty hilarious how terrible Bryan Dave's opinions on wrestling are.

[rovert]

Dave was on Ed's show here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/edward-loredo

 

Mostly shooting the breeze about the week in Wrestling and Bryan's wedding. His reaction to Foley is that Foley doesn’t take criticism lightly. Dave would like Foley to pick out something specific he said. He has no problem his performance and delivery. Most of his sarcastic comments come from Foley's references to WWE being the big leagues. All and all he thought it was strange and it is just indicative of the frustration within TNA, his star power decreasing and his poor feuds with Sting, Nash etc.

 

Dave's contention is that Foley was simply victim of bad booking in WWE while in TNA he is just failing and over exposed.

 

There is some HOF talk featuring Tamura and Murdoch as well as the Donohue show talk.

[Bix]

I have no desire to hear Ed talk. How is the Dave stuff?

[rovert]

I have no desire to hear Ed talk. How is the Dave stuff?

Well Ed doesnt say all that much

 

Again just shooting the breeze, inessential really but the HOF talk and Donohue talk is fun. Well Ed doesnt say that much as is largely Dave and then later Alan4L and Dave interacting.

 

Dave comes in around the 18 minute mark and is there for roughly an hour.

[sek69]

I personally don't see how the two things are mutually exclusive. Who says an aw shucks everyman can't also be a huge mark for himself? Just like you said, he never really hid it.

 

He can be as big a mark for himself as he wants, but it seems a lot of people (smart fans as well as marks) bought into his everyman gimmick hook line and sinker. The shock some people expressed finding out he's a big fat carny was hilarious.

[rovert]

Anyone with a Torch sub listen to Bruce Mitchell's analysis of Foley's screed? Any good?

[Dan]

They basically just buried Foley for an hour. It was pretty good.

[Jingus]

He can be as big a mark for himself as he wants, but it seems a lot of people (smart fans as well as marks) bought into his everyman gimmick hook line and sinker. The shock some people expressed finding out he's a big fat carny was hilarious.

I'm getting OLC flashbacks. But really, it was never a secret that Foley was a seething mess of stubborn pride mixed with rampaging insecurity. You don't even need his books to see that, it was obvious as far back as his ECW heel promos. Every character he's ever had was that of a guy who is mostly a loser, but is desperate to prove he's not a loser by any means possible. Nobody should have been surprised by any of the more recent "revelations".

 

He's still one of my all-time favorite wrestlers, but I've never pretended the guy doesn't have his share of mental issues. He's a bizarre combination of genuinely sharp intellect leavened with childlike naivety, in a nearly autistic fashion. It's like he completely forgets about the possibility that anyone might not like him. So when he is reminded of that fact, it hurts his feelings and he feels like it's a betrayal. He takes all these business matters personally; and the weird thing is that he really can't stop that, because his best work has usually come when he's bitter and feels like he has something to prove.

[Bix]

Jingus is totally right. Foley has been really, really odd ever since he started to lose his hardcore fanbase, both in terms of perception of his work and other stuff like the "Why yes, I AM platonic friends with Christy Canyon and Melina, let me tell you all about it!" weirdness. It seems like he really prided himself on being a great performer who got lots of critical praise while having a great rapport with fans (When I was a kid, he made sure to send me an autographed photo a good 18 months or so after I sent a fan letter of some sort), and now most of that's gone. He can't have good matches anymore, his promos have been iffy for awhile, and now he's floundering whatever the hell TNA is supposed to be. Fans didn't overwhelmingly side with him when he left his WWE color commentator job. His third book was largely ignored and those who did give it attention noted how out-there his ideas were (Terry Funk bites Vince during a Kiss My Ass Club segment?).

 

As some of you know, I used to be a huge, huge fan of his, but he's just insufferable nowadays.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Mitchell made a great point in that audio on the Torch site: Foley was really into the dichotomy of being a fearsome, dangerous madman who was also a wacky, fun-loving rollercoaster enthusiast. But he played up his goofy side so much that he wasn't fearsome or dangerous anymore, and when he tries to revert back to his old self, it doesn't have any bite. The "other" side of Mick may have endeared him to the fans, but it was the "hardcore" side which made him a great wrestler.

 

Bruce also speculated that Mick may be suffering from concussion-related depression or mood swings.

[Dan]

He can be as big a mark for himself as he wants, but it seems a lot of people (smart fans as well as marks) bought into his everyman gimmick hook line and sinker. The shock some people expressed finding out he's a big fat carny was hilarious.

I'm getting OLC flashbacks. But really, it was never a secret that Foley was a seething mess of stubborn pride mixed with rampaging insecurity. You don't even need his books to see that, it was obvious as far back as his ECW heel promos. Every character he's ever had was that of a guy who is mostly a loser, but is desperate to prove he's not a loser by any means possible. Nobody should have been surprised by any of the more recent "revelations".

 

I don't disagree with that. But it's undeniable that Foley has (or had) a fanbase of almost cult-like devotion. Frightening, really.

 

I was looking at a Foley thread at F4W from Jan 2006, There was some critisism of Foley and ...

 

estilo latino

 

Are you for real?

 

Thanks for the laugh. Go bitch about Foley on another NOOZ site. We don't need this shit here.

Alan4L

 

AAGHAHHAHGAGAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO OUR BOARD!!!

 

One month ago, this was the greatest board on earth. Everyone had fun, intelligent discussions were had and everyone was happy. Now a month later, F4W has been invaded by a bunch of miserable individuals who seem intent on ruining this board. I'm sick of it, just fuck the hell off and leave us to our peaceful little board with funny photoshops and Granny. God I hope BW comes in here and runs you guys off.

 

sigh.....

RE: the RR '99 match:

 

Have you ever considered that perhaps he didn't realy feel much pain despite the bleeding? Foley is known as someone who gets pleasure from things that would cause others pain. There's a distinction between "he busted me open" and "I'm in crippling agony, oh God end the pain." I'm sure the kid felt better when her dad said it didn't hurt, regardless of how he looked.

 

I remember at DVDVR at around the same time, Kevin Cook (probably the best poster in MB history) became the most hated poster ever for suggesting that maybe Foley isn't the greatest guy in the world.

[Death From Above]

Bruce also speculated that Mick may be suffering from concussion-related depression or mood swings.

If he isn't, it's a Goddamn miracle.

[jdw]

Busting on Foley is old at this point. I remember catching shit in the Torch after KOTR HitC.

 

John

[MikeCampbell]

I think Sek is onto something when he says Foley as the humble everyman is high on the list of cons. I actually picked up Have A Nice Day a few months ago when my power out, the baby was sleeping, and I just needed to pass the time. I couldn't believe how much of an egomaniac Foley came off as. The same thing on his PTC section of Foley Is Good.

[kjh]

Fans didn't overwhelmingly side with him when he left his WWE color commentator job.

I don't have any sympathy for someone who thinks he's above being shouted at by Vince McMahon.

[Strummer]

Honestly I don't think Mick realizes how out of the loop he is by being in TNA.I mean it's a joke promotion with a million or so die hards who watch each week. Kurt Angle and Kevin Nash constantly tell stories of meeting people in airports who have no idea they still wrestle and have no clue what TNA is. To Mick it's like it's still 1998 or at least 2004.

 

Kind of sad actually

[Bix]

I was gonna mention head injuries but forgot. He was having neurological issues over a decade ago (forgetting how to get home from the airport), so ...

[rovert]

Honestly I don't think Mick realizes how out of the loop he is by being in TNA.I mean it's a joke promotion with a million or so die hards who watch each week. Kurt Angle and Kevin Nash constantly tell stories of meeting people in airports who have no idea they still wrestle and have no clue what TNA is. To Mick it's like it's still 1998 or at least 2004.

 

Kind of sad actually

 

Kind of reminds me of the Des Kay character from the comedy show Little Britian:

 

Des is a former 80s children's TV presenter who has to now work in a DIY shop who has difficulty letting go of his fading frame.

[Loss]

Part of it is Foley himself, part of it is wrestling changing, part of it is petty politics, but HHH's statement that Mick Foley can't relate to today's wrestling fan is probably accurate.

[Bix]

Wade:

All of those chairshots may have changed Foley's brain where he doesn't even know how he comes off anymore. Reading that entire 4,400 words was really astoundingly narcissistic and un-self-aware of how self-absorbed he is. The amount of time he spends thinking about himself in those ways, breaking down where he finished in poll results to that much detail, was just weird and not healthy and a waste of human resources. His ego seems to have overtaken his soul.