Loss Posted August 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 And he gave Flair-Steamboat at the Capital Centre in '89 ******, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6efQnQwgo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 And he gave Flair-Steamboat at the Capital Centre in '89 ******, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6efQnQwgo He told me he gave it 5 3/4 *. I can't find it in the old observers and I always thought the 6* was Jeff Bowdren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Can't we just stick at 5 or go to 10? This 6 star rating system is just bonkers. I'm sorry Dave just because you over use 5 stars, doesn't mean you need to try to fix that with pure sillyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 He also apparently retroactively gave 6/3/94 ******, which kind of undermines his argument about wrestling being about time and place, but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/893546747183505408 People talk about the dumb questions Dave gets asked on Twitter etc. but he does himself no favours by making disingenuous responses to valid discussion points because they tend towards criticism of his favourite type of wrestling. Wrestlers making concerted attempts to tailor their matches to Dave and hardcore fan opinion is a phenomenon worth discussing imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/893546747183505408 People talk about the dumb questions Dave gets asked on Twitter etc. but he does himself no favours by making disingenuous responses to valid discussion points because they tend towards criticism of his favourite type of wrestling. Wrestlers making concerted attempts to tailor their matches to Dave and hardcore fan opinion is a phenomenon worth discussing imo. The Meltzer Effect? Meltzerian Syndrome? PWSD - Pro Wrestling Star Disorder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 If you're wrestling in a place like PWG you should tailor their matches to Dave and the hardcore fan since that's the exact audience you're working in front of. I kind of think the internet sometimes amplifies things out of proportion and makes it seem like stuff today's wrestlers do is a new concept. Was HBK trying to impress Dave and the Hardcores (great band name btw) by stealing the show in the 90s? Were Savage and Steamboat trying to impress Dave at WM3? It seems like trying to put on the best match is something top level guys have done since the dawn of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 It's possible they are working for Dave or hardcore fans, but to be fair, those are the matches that get the loudest reactions at big WWE shows these days as well. So I'm not ready to make that leap. Dave may be what inspired the change, but I wouldn't say pleasing Dave is the totality of what they are going for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 I mean, clearly some guys are but is that so much to impress Dave directly or with the knowledge that there's been times where impressing him has led to getting noticed by bigger companies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/893546747183505408 People talk about the dumb questions Dave gets asked on Twitter etc. but he does himself no favours by making disingenuous responses to valid discussion points because they tend towards criticism of his favourite type of wrestling. Wrestlers making concerted attempts to tailor their matches to Dave and hardcore fan opinion is a phenomenon worth discussing imo. I encountered that the other night. He reverts to being a condescending ass at any disagreement. But I try to remember the garbage he encounters online. I would probably already be on a IRL rampage if I dealt with half of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I mean, clearly some guys are but is that so much to impress Dave directly or with the knowledge that there's been times where impressing him has led to getting noticed by bigger companies? This is part of what I'm asking; when and why the working motives of "have great matches to get great reactions, future draws, and better opportunities" were joined by critical motives like "have great matches as an artistic pursuit, compare and canonize them". Savage/Steamboat and Bret/HBK were meticulous matches, designed to be remembered. Does that make them Art Wrestling? (Was Jerry Lawler only artistic by accident, since he'll happily admit to not knowing or caring about exactly which are his Greatest Matches Ever, as opposed to his biggest draws?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Wrestlers have zero ownership of the perception of their work, and their intent matters little. Once they put it out there, it belongs to all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Wrestlers have zero ownership of the perception of their work, and their intent matters little. Once they put it out there, it belongs to all of us. Except for when we do GWE again next month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 And he gave Flair-Steamboat at the Capital Centre in '89 ******, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6efQnQwgo He told me he gave it 5 3/4 *. I can't find it in the old observers and I always thought the 6* was Jeff Bowdren. It's in the 4/3/89 issue. "3/18 at the Capital Centre drew 5,000 and $66,000 as Gilbert pinned Bradley, Reed drew Murdoch, Hayes beat Joey Maggs, Sting pinned Kendall Windham (good), Steiner pinned Sullivan, Luger pinned Windham (very good), Warriors beat Williams and Rotunda after they have Williams the Tenryu/Hara sandwich lariat (very good) and Steamboat pinned Flair in 32 minutes of a match which blew the top off the five star scale. This match was significantly better than their Chicago match and deserved something like 5 ½ to 6 stars as a fair grade. Those in the know were amazed at how good this match was, particularly when they realized they had another match later that night in Philadelphia (which wasn't as good, but was still a fantastic match)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Somebody says: Every time I watch an Ishii match I think he's legit hurt. Either he's a great seller or I'm right. Meltzer: He's the best seller in the business. Some recognize it. Some don't understand because only understand a singular pattern of wrestling. I really hate shit like this. The options aren't Ishii is the best or people are stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 I really wouldn't get too wrapped up in Twitter opinions from Dave Meltzer or others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 An internet acquaintance of mine has the best phrase for any and all Twitter discussions: The Discourse is Shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Dave looking like Nostradamus in the 7/17/2000 WON back issue: TV tapings on 7/11 in Oakland before a sellout at the Arena. Prototype (John Sena) beat Damian Steele kind of a spinning back suplex in 4:36. Prototype also was the featured guy at about the same time on the Discovery Channel special. Match was really bad but Prototype showed a ton of charisma and is going to make it some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Wrestlers have zero ownership of the perception of their work, and their intent matters little. Once they put it out there, it belongs to all of us. Great quote, Loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 LOL at this trolling tweet... Baron Corbin @BaronCorbinWWE 4h4 hours agoReplying to @WrestlingNewsCoWhat matches and promos has Dave meltzer done. Ohh none! He is a old man who could never do what anyone on the roster can or could. https://twitter.com/BaronCorbinWWE/status/895773416879423498 Responses: Mike Gilbert @GetUpMike 3h3 hours agoReplying to @BaronCorbinWWE @WrestlingNewsCoUncle Dave is more respected in wrestling than you will ever be. Baron Corbin @BaronCorbinWWE 3h3 hours agoRespected by who. Losers like you with a profile pic in a high school gym Indy show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 "You can't criticize unless you've done it" really is the weakest though. Not to mention he's clearly never seen a pic of Dave, Vince would push a guy built like him the exact same way Baron has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter_Machine Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 "You can't criticize unless you've done it" really is the weakest though. Not to mention he's clearly never seen a pic of Dave, Vince would push a guy built like him the exact same way Baron has been. And in a few years, Vince will find a new tall guy with middling ability and a smidgen of charisma to push and Corbin will be second from the top on some backwoods indy in rural Ohio somewhere, and we'll all still be following Meltzer on twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Corbin will be second from the top on some backwoods indy in rural Ohio somewhere GFW doesn't run Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Vince McMahon had never done it until 1998-1999. Therefore, any opinions he expressed before then weren't valid either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I feel bad for Corbin because that is such an amateur move to make. There is a way to do that attack and not leave yourself open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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