Dave Meltzer stuff

[goc]

Someone on twitter taking a photo of the Intermission sign on the tron and making a joke about how it's an upcoming UK PPV isn't a "hoax" but I guess Dave has to try and spin it so he doesn't look as dumb as he really is in that situation.

[Loss]

Why did they stop doing UK-only PPVs, by the way?

[NintendoLogic]

They started doing European tours instead, which I assume were more profitable.

[FMKK]

Did those UK PPVs precede tours altogether? I remember the first WWE house show I went to was a tour connected to one of those UK PPVs (Rebellion I think). I got the impression that it just made more sense on a number of levels for them to do Raw and Smackdown from London or wherever rather than trying to get over and back so quickly.

[Mrzfn]

They toured Europe at least as early as the mid 80s. There are episodes of Prime Time dedicated to airing matches from Paris and such.

[Matt D]

They started doing European tours instead, which I assume were more profitable.

 

I don't see why these things are exclusive.

[paul sosnowski]

I really thought it was because they didn't want to deal with the time difference and spoilers getting out

[Robert S]

Loss was talking about these UK-only PPVs like One Night Only or Insurrextion, not world-wide PPVs. In the network era there are no real PPVs anyway (at least outside the US, in the US I suppose the shows are still available on some cable providers even though the official internet page of the Survivor Series 2017 does not even mention it), so the most they could do nowadays is running network specials from the UK which they actually did this year.

Regarding them doing European tours before: I don't think that the WWF would have survived the mid 90ies without running lots of tours (like 6-8 a year; sometimes on German TV they were plugging two tours in parallel) in Europe during that time.

[Kadaveri]

Dave Meltzer is now on Twitter arguing Kenny Omega sells more tickets than John Cena.

[Beast]

Dave Meltzer is now on Twitter arguing Kenny Omega sells more tickets than John Cena.

 

No, he's not.

 

He's arguing Omega moves a higher percentage of tickets per show than Cena. Apparently when Omega was added to RoH shows this year, they were able to sell more tickets than usual.

 

He's not pretending Omega brings indy shows up to WWE-crowd levels.

[Grimmas]

Since ROH draws so much less than WWE, the fact Omega moved more tickets when added than when Cena is added to WWE is something worth pointing out? It's fucking odd.

[Loss]

That's like saying that someone who has a three-way doubles the house. It doesn't really mean anything.

[hammerva]

And now you understand why people make jokes about how Jericho vs Omega will be 5 stars before it actually happen.

[Kadaveri]

He's also arguing that if John Cena was booked for Ring of Honor it wouldn't sell as many extra tickets as Kenny Omega, so it's not just 'proportionately in their respective companies'.

 

Omega might have moved more tickets proportionately for those RoH shows but he's wrestled for RoH only two weeks in the last three years? Obviously something in such rare supply is going to sell quicker than something readily available. It doesn't necessarily mean the demand for it is that high.

[Loss]

On what planet do proportional increases matter when the companies are nowhere near the same size? If a company draws 5 people, then brings me in to headline and 10 people show up, am I a bigger difference maker than John Cena? It's a completely useless thing to even talk about unless you're comparing oranges to oranges.

[Beast]

It was in response to someone knocking Omega and as with most Dave Twitter arguments, has evolved into something else with both sides being pedantic about wording.

 

He said Omega was the biggest ticket mover in the US.

 

Is he right? Numbers-wise, it would be impossible since RoH isn't selling at WWE's level. But if he adds hundreds of tickets to a group that regularly sells 1000 or less, that's kind of a big deal.

 

Whether he sells more than Cena (he doesn't), it's still impressive and worth noting.

[Loss]

It is definitely impressive, especially in the modern climate. Sadly, the way Dave formulated his point takes away from that instead of pointing out how impressive it is.

[Matt D]

It was in response to someone knocking Omega and as with most Dave Twitter arguments, has evolved into something else with both sides being pedantic about wording.

 

He said Omega was the biggest ticket mover in the US.

 

Is he right? Numbers-wise, it would be impossible since RoH isn't selling at WWE's level. But if he adds hundreds of tickets to a group that regularly sells 1000 or less, that's kind of a big deal.

 

Whether he sells more than Cena (he doesn't), it's still impressive and worth noting.

 

That's the kind of crazy open-mindedness and flexibility of logic that lets people actually give Buddy Rose the credit he deserves.

[sek69]

It's also kind of annoying how a lot of the people coming at Dave automatically dismiss anyone and anything not WWE, several times they've come at him that wrestler X or Y can't be a star in wrestling because they've never had at WWE run which is ridiculous.

[...TG]

It's also kind of annoying how a lot of the people coming at Dave automatically dismiss anyone and anything not WWE, several times they've come at him that wrestler X or Y can't be a star in wrestling because they've never had at WWE run which is ridiculous.

Part of Dave's twitter bit is QT-ing and snarkily responding to the dumbest of his replies so there's more than a little confirmation bias in there.

 

This is a weird hill for Dave to try to die on but again, that's part of his twitter persona.

[FMKK]

 

It's also kind of annoying how a lot of the people coming at Dave automatically dismiss anyone and anything not WWE, several times they've come at him that wrestler X or Y can't be a star in wrestling because they've never had at WWE run which is ridiculous.

 

Part of Dave's twitter bit is QT-ing and snarkily responding to the dumbest of his replies so there's more than a little confirmation bias in there.

 

This is a weird hill for Dave to try to die on but again, that's part of his twitter persona.

If he's quote tweeting and snarking to the most stupid of people in his mentions and isn't coming across as being particularly smarter, what does that say?

[Eduardo]

Pretty disappointed in Dave on Twitter today. I and other people I know have talked about how cool it is that Kenny Omega and other people, like Penta, on the independent wrestling scene have been impressive as of late, without doing eyerolling comparisons to John Cena or making up a Jeff Hardy ROH run that never happened. Just embarrassing.

[Loss]

Didn't the Jeff Hardy run he's referring to happen in 2003 anyway?

[Eduardo]

Didn't the Jeff Hardy run he's referring to happen in 2003 anyway?

 

Yep, people have been tweeting at him that correction and of course, he hasn't replied or corrected his previous talking point.

[stomperspc]

 

Didn't the Jeff Hardy run he's referring to happen in 2003 anyway?

 

Yep, people have been tweeting at him that correction and of course, he hasn't replied or corrected his previous talking point.

 

 

That was the part that irritated me the most. His main support for why Cena might not draw in ROH is completely false. Hardy wrestled one match in 2003 for ROH and a few earlier this year. Neither were after his run as Smackdown champion like Dave claimed.

 

FWIW, Hardy did draw fans for his single ROH appearance (prior to this year) in July 2003. No way of knowing how many but I was there and there were a fair amount of people clearly there for Jeff which would disprove his point even further since pre-peak Jeff Hardy still appeared to draw well in ROH. The hardcore ROH fans rejected him before the match even started, but he sold extra tickets.