Dave Meltzer stuff

[sek69]

FWIW, Dave has been trying to correct the narrative since Bruno was welcomed back to the fold and the WWE machine went into overdrive with the MSG sellout number. So it's not like today was the first time he's mentioned it. I don't know if anyone's noticed but Dave gets triggered (as the kids say) by inaccurate numbers so it's the reason why he gets so hung up on stuff like this and the WM3 number. It's probably also why so many people joke and/or speculate that he's on the spectrum since the easiest way to get under his skin is to parrot an inaccurate number related to wrestling.

[Fando]

 

Hey Grimmas, do you really think not a single person who read those articles also follows Dave or reads the newsletter?

Most don't and anyone who does would get the real obit/facts in the actually Observer. There was no rush if that was his reasoning.

 

 

"No rush" but one has actually articulated why it's disrespectful or harmful to acknowledge the record is real, but the famous number is worked right now.

[Fando]

If Tom Brady died tomorrow and the NFL put out a statement commemorating his nine Super Bowl wins, would people be pissed off if a Boston Globe reporter tweeted to say the figure was wrong?

 

Or if it was Hogan, would people on this board (not on twitter) be having such a fit if Dave called out any one of the company myths about him?

[Wahoos Leg]

The issue is the timing and the execution. It did not come off as correcting an error, it came off as a chance to show how smart he was.

[SomethingSavage]

Exactly. The issue people are pointing to has nothing to do with accurate historical journalism or anything. It's an issue of common sense, decent courtesy, and behaving like a human being.

 

I get that people are saying Dave is just doing his job, but those same people are purposely acting like they don't realize that there's a time and a place for these things. Regardless of anyone's relationship with Bruno, this just feels like the worst possible time to get bogged down in that junk.

 

At best, it's in poor taste. At worst? Yeah. He sounds totally aloof and oblivious to the norms of, ya know, actual society around him.

 

And lol @ the people defending Dave by calling it "fake numbers" in a worked sport. Meanwhile, Dave is the one that's over-the-top OCD about those "fake numbers." Just silly.

[Fando]

So indecent to temper the record while it's a trending topic.

 

Such poor taste to honor someone known as an honest man by pointing out a very benign truth.

 

Folks, what is this really about?

[Jmare007]

Holy shit at this thread going 4 pages over 1 tweet that was used to complain about people complaining

 

 

By the way, how inaccurate is the sellout number? Would be hilarious if the difference isn't that big.

[SomethingSavage]

It's about showing a little class and letting some time pass before addressing silly shit like that.

 

Dave sells speculation and his opinions every bit as much as facts and numbers. So it's downright fucking weird and at least a little odd for him to feel this sudden sense of obligation to correct someone or call out an inaccuracy in such a time of sadness.

 

There's a time and a place for those things - but how about a little time for grief and mourning? It's a basic, natural ordeal for most humans. I don't get why people are acting like it's so strange that people would feel like he should just shut the fuck up and let them pay their respects for a moment before he starts convulsing about stats and shit again. There's literally like 364 other days of the year for him to do that.

 

Honestly, it's fucking bizarre and at least slightly troubling that some people can't wrap their heads around that.

[SPS]

 

So indecent to temper the record while it's a trending topic.

 

Such poor taste to honor someone known as an honest man by pointing out a very benign truth.

 

Folks, what is this really about?

 

 

Exactly, I'm all for pointing out moments where Dave comes off poorly and discussing them but this one is just foolish. Dave made one tweet aside from his paying condolences to his friends passing about something that was just a factual inaccuracy and was not a slight to Bruno or his fans in anyway.

 

Dave pointing out something that was something pushed by other media while being false and letting folks know about it isn't in poor taste at all. Bruno himself always spoke about wanting to be honest and legitimate with his accomplishments and I highly doubt he would be upset at a person like Dave who he had a good relationship personally would state something like that on Twitter of all places where it's just social media and interactions with people on the site even if it's on the day of his passing.

 

I understand people having grievances with Dave's work or opinions but this whole 'is he on the spectrum' nonsense is just childish speculation and seems only to be speculated as a way of putting Dave down more than an aspect of trying to understand his viewpoint.

 

What the hell does it matter and who the hell is anyone to speculate? I doubt anyone would have the gall to walk up to Dave's face and ask him 'are you on the spectrum Dave?' and I doubt anyone on here would be alright with folks speculating stuff like that about yourselves in a way to justify their grievances with you and what you say.

[Childs]

It's about showing a little class and letting some time pass before addressing silly shit like that.

 

Dave sells speculation and his opinions every bit as much as facts and numbers. So it's downright fucking weird and at least a little odd for him to feel this sudden sense of obligation to correct someone or call out an inaccuracy in such a time of sadness.

 

There's a time and a place for those things - but how about a little time for grief and mourning? It's a basic, natural ordeal for most humans. I don't get why people are acting like it's so strange that people would feel like he should just shut the fuck up and let them pay their respects for a moment before he starts convulsing about stats and shit again. There's literally like 364 other days of the year for him to do that.

 

Honestly, it's fucking bizarre and at least slightly troubling that some people can't wrap their heads around that.

 

Honestly, it's "fucking bizarre and at least slightly troubling" that you think it's inappropriate to discuss the facts of a prominent person's life on the occasion of his death. Do you think obituaries are disrespectful? How do you think they come into existence? Fucking magic? Someone has to report and check the facts of the person's life.

[El-P]

There's a time and a place for those things - but how about a little time for grief and mourning? It's a basic, natural ordeal for most humans. I don't get why people are acting like it's so strange that people would feel like he should just shut the fuck up and let them pay their respects for a moment before he starts convulsing about stats and shit again.

 

Because a single tweet about facts prevent the Twitter crowd (consisting of people who never even met the guy, never knew him and most of them probably never even saw him back in the days) from "mourning" (which is a term that really should be reserved to the actual family and friends) ? Come on now... People really need to stop being so fucking sensitive about everything.

 

Dave Meltzer was a friend of Bruno, so maybe the classeless ones in this story are the douchebags who pack up on Twitter to patronize and insult Dave in *his* time of mourning (of a man he actually KNEW) because they can't get over a single fucking tweet about MSG sell-outs which is actually a very important part of Bruno's legacy. Lack of decency indeed, but Twitter and social media in general are a cesspool.

[SPS]

 

There's a time and a place for those things - but how about a little time for grief and mourning? It's a basic, natural ordeal for most humans. I don't get why people are acting like it's so strange that people would feel like he should just shut the fuck up and let them pay their respects for a moment before he starts convulsing about stats and shit again.

 

Because a single tweet about facts prevent the Twitter crowd (consisting of people who never even met the guy, never knew him and most of them probably never even saw him back in the days) from "mourning" (which is a term that really should be reserved to the actual family and friends) ? Come on now... People really need to stop being so fucking sensitive about everything.

 

Dave Meltzer was a friend of Bruno, so maybe the classeless ones in this story are the douchebags who pack up on Twitter to patronize and insult Dave in *his* time of mourning (of a man he actually KNEW) because they can't get over a single fucking tweet about MSG sell-outs which is actually a very important part of Bruno's legacy. Lack of decency indeed, but Twitter and social media in general are a cesspool.

 

Amen

[ragemaster]

Two pages talking about Bruno on the Bruno thread, 5 pages about a tweet on this,

[Fando]

It's about showing a little class and letting some time pass before addressing silly shit like that.

 

Dave sells speculation and his opinions every bit as much as facts and numbers. So it's downright fucking weird and at least a little odd for him to feel this sudden sense of obligation to correct someone or call out an inaccuracy in such a time of sadness.

 

There's a time and a place for those things - but how about a little time for grief and mourning? It's a basic, natural ordeal for most humans. I don't get why people are acting like it's so strange that people would feel like he should just shut the fuck up and let them pay their respects for a moment before he starts convulsing about stats and shit again. There's literally like 364 other days of the year for him to do that.

 

Honestly, it's fucking bizarre and at least slightly troubling that some people can't wrap their heads around that.

 

Yeah, probably because it's not something shameful or scandalous or that reflects negatively in any way on the person, but is still a major part of the legend of Bruno over the last several years and it was brought up as an aside among many nice tributes during the day due to being repeated verbatim in nearly every piece that got published today.

 

But you go on, man. Let it out.

 

[...TG]

Dave did respond in a couple of tweets this afternoon. I don't know how to embed tweets but here:

Today was the day the media stories came out, Bruno turned down Hollywood movies because they wouldn't tell the truth about his life, no point in making up facts in his real-life obit. I would think people would understand that.

 

- https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/986735467885297664

I'll stay off, but every story was written today, not next week. Next week I'll care, and some wrestling fans will care, but the media only cared today. Sad but true. Sorry for those who don't understand.

- https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/986735741622337537

 

FWIW (not much), my initial thought is that it was a bit too soon, but he has a point here.

[Johnny Sorrow]

No disagreement from me regarding social media warriors. Wrestling Twitter, in particular, I the absolute fucking worst.

 

I still stand by what I said about people feel like it's in poor taste. Because it's just not the time or place for that shit. Where I come from, when someone passes, you reminisce about the good times and celebrate memories. My thoughts on common courtesy, decency, and showing some respect for the recently departed isn't going to change because some username told me I should appreciate Dave Meltzer or some shit. Is what it is.

 

And yes. You got me. You absolutely nailed it. Here I've spent my entire adult life believing that "fucking magic" was how obits were made. Appreciate you busting that bubble. I may need to take a week to get all in my feelings about that one.

 

Honestly, I'm quite possibly the LAST person to get all sensitive and dramatic over this shit. I don't have any kind of personal connection to Bruno. But I can understand why it would rub some people the wrong way. And I don't get how any functioning member of society doesn't see that maybe - just maybe - people are offended much more by the timing than anything to do with the actual message.

 

Exactly. It came off as incredibly ill-timed to tweet this, for both the reason of fucking decorum and that it came off as an extension of his "twitter fight" over Andre's height from last week.

There's a time and a place, and the day the man died isn't it. That being said, I'm sure Dave's obit is going to be amazing.

[SomethingSavage]

I don't follow wrestling Twitter at all, so that's all news to me. I was only responding to what was said in this thread. Appreciate you sharing some of Dave's other thoughts though. Definitely helps to put things into context, and he comes across like someone with good intentions in mind.

 

Still stand by my points about it being more of an issue of the timing versus the message (at least in my eyes), but yeah. This fleshes things out a bit more.

[SomethingSavage]

 

No disagreement from me regarding social media warriors. Wrestling Twitter, in particular, I the absolute fucking worst.

I still stand by what I said about people feel like it's in poor taste. Because it's just not the time or place for that shit. Where I come from, when someone passes, you reminisce about the good times and celebrate memories. My thoughts on common courtesy, decency, and showing some respect for the recently departed isn't going to change because some username told me I should appreciate Dave Meltzer or some shit. Is what it is.

And yes. You got me. You absolutely nailed it. Here I've spent my entire adult life believing that "fucking magic" was how obits were made. Appreciate you busting that bubble. I may need to take a week to get all in my feelings about that one.

Honestly, I'm quite possibly the LAST person to get all sensitive and dramatic over this shit. I don't have any kind of personal connection to Bruno. But I can understand why it would rub some people the wrong way. And I don't get how any functioning member of society doesn't see that maybe - just maybe - people are offended much more by the timing than anything to do with the actual message.

 

Exactly. It came off as incredibly ill-timed to tweet this, for both the reason of fucking decorum and that it came off as an extension of his "twitter fight" over Andre's height from last week.

There's a time and a place, and the day the man died isn't it. That being said, I'm sure Dave's obit is going to be amazing.

Agreed.

 

I deleted that post - after reading Dave's other comments but before seeing you'd quoted it - but you basically summarized my thoughts there, man.

[PeteF3]

"The day the man died" seems like it's exactly the time to be doing it, though I agree that Dave's wording could have been better.

[shodate]

 

It's about showing a little class and letting some time pass before addressing silly shit like that.

 

Dave sells speculation and his opinions every bit as much as facts and numbers. So it's downright fucking weird and at least a little odd for him to feel this sudden sense of obligation to correct someone or call out an inaccuracy in such a time of sadness.

 

There's a time and a place for those things - but how about a little time for grief and mourning? It's a basic, natural ordeal for most humans. I don't get why people are acting like it's so strange that people would feel like he should just shut the fuck up and let them pay their respects for a moment before he starts convulsing about stats and shit again. There's literally like 364 other days of the year for him to do that.

 

Honestly, it's fucking bizarre and at least slightly troubling that some people can't wrap their heads around that.

 

Yeah, probably because it's not something shameful or scandalous or that reflects negatively in any way on the person, but is still a major part of the legend of Bruno over the last several years and it was brought up as an aside among many nice tributes during the day due to being repeated verbatim in nearly every piece that got published today.

 

But you go on, man. Let it out.

 

 

i was waiting for that guy

[ragemaster]

If you read the original tweets because its on Dave Meltzer wall of tweets.

So you following a wrestling historian/new reporters tweeter feed and he corrects a bit of false information and people get upset.

Here's an idea, instead of acting like a bunch of 13 year old's and calling him names.
Unfollow him if your too immature and the truth upsets your sensibilities.

This has nothing to due with a mans passing, but about having an excuse to have a pop at Meltzer.

He did nothing wrong, if you don't like it tough, get over it and move on.

Follow Donald Trump or the kardashians if the truth upsets you so much.

[shodate]

 

If you read the original tweets because its on Dave Meltzer wall of tweets.

So you following a wrestling historian/new reporters tweeter feed and he corrects a bit of false information and people get upset.

Here's an idea, instead of acting like a bunch of 13 year old's and calling him names.

Unfollow him if your too immature and the truth upsets your sensibilities.

This has nothing to due with a mans passing, but about having an excuse to have a pop at Meltzer.

He did nothing wrong, if you don't like it tough, get over it and move on.

Follow Donald Trump or the kardashians if the truth upsets you so much.

 

truth bomb

[Ricky Jackson]

Holy shit at this thread going 4 pages over 1 tweet that was used to complain about people complaining

 

 

By the way, how inaccurate is the sellout number? Would be hilarious if the difference isn't that big.

I think the actual number is about 45 or so, around the same as Backlund actually. So it's a pretty big exaggeration. I don't think Bruno even appeared on 187 MSG shows total. Wrestling at MSG was hot from 63-65, but was relatively cold for the rest of the decade with no sellouts from early 65 until June of 1970. Bruno's second reign was full of sellouts, but so were Morales', Graham's and Backlund's reigns.

 

But whatever, Bruno was fucking God

[Jmare007]

 

Holy shit at this thread going 4 pages over 1 tweet that was used to complain about people complaining

 

 

By the way, how inaccurate is the sellout number? Would be hilarious if the difference isn't that big.

I think the actual number is about 45 or so, around the same as Backlund actually. So it's a pretty big exaggeration. I don't think Bruno even appeared on 187 MSG shows total. Wrestling at MSG was hot from 63-65, but was relatively cold for the rest of the decade with no sellouts from early 65 until June of 1970. Bruno's second reign was full of sellouts, but so were Morales', Graham's and Backlund's reigns.

 

But whatever, Bruno was fucking God

 

 

Good stuff

 

More of this and less of whatever the hell has been the last few pages.

[Cap]

Between this, people losing their minds over him saying the Miz was a waste of a Bryan feud, and twitter getting in a hissy every time he drops five stars I kind of don't get it anymore. Sure, he could have waited a day or worded this better or whatever, but I honestly don't think it would matter. People love getting riled up for Meltzer and most (not all, most) of the people who get riled up are the ones who say he is full of shit, out of touch, and/or just doesn't have the scoops anymore.

 

I am not trying to say Dave doesn't have clout or influence (quite the opposite), but the logic of how so many people engage that dude and his work is mind blowing. People have made such a villain out of him (and in some ways he has perpetuated that process) that I think a huge section of wrestling fans (at least wrestling twitter) really revels in calling him out and juxtaposing themselves/their takes and knowledge against his in a way that they think makes them look smart or superior.

 

I didn't love the tweet and I think it was perfectly reasonable to not be thrilled about it, but it seems like it took a lot of people's attention away from Bruno and put it on Meltzer or their own self righteous responses to him and that is at least as much their fault as it is Metlzers I think.