Ric Flair (sigh)

[Victator]

 

I don't really know what David Flair has to be bitter about in the big picture. Did Ric beat him and his mom? His dad worked a lot and drank. Which that is true for a lot of kids. They did not get the perks and benefits David did.

If, like David Fliehr, my dad was an alcoholic who cut off contact with me, my sister, and my mom for years after they got divorced then yeah, I think that's plenty of reason to be bitter.

 

Well not really. Seems like Ric did a lot to make up for anything he might have done to him before. I know people who have good relationships with their parents who did a lot worse and they did not get the opportunities David did in life. Though again it could be the editing. Cornette said he talked to them for two hours and little was used. I'm speaking to what was on the show.

[sek69]

The narrative they were going for was how the guy who personified everything the 80s wanted to be did so at the expense of his family, and perhaps all in the pursuit of getting validation from his parents who didn't seem to want anything to do with his chosen profession.

[dawho5]

You do understand Victator that really what kids want is to feel like their parents love them and want to spend time with them. The food and clothes mean nothing to them. Toys are great, but without parents who give loving attention the kids are going to be miserable. I can tell you this because I see it happening within my own family and we all do our best to make up for what the kid isn't getting from her mom.

[flyonthewall2983]

Victator, it's funny you bring it up because Rory Karpf also directed the Tim Richmond 30 For 30.

 

You do understand Victator that really what kids want is to feel like their parents love them and want to spend time with them. The food and clothes mean nothing to them. Toys are great, but without parents who give loving attention the kids are going to be miserable. I can tell you this because I see it happening within my own family and we all do our best to make up for what the kid isn't getting from her mom.

 

I came from a lower/middle-class background and had a father in prison from the time I was 11 until shortly after my 18th birthday. While I know that Ric's kids "had it better" intuitively I can understand a little of whatever pain/frustration they had in having someone be as distant as he was.

 

One revelation from this doc was how much Ric was distant even from his own parents. I really don't remember if any of this was covered in his book or in shoot interviews, just that he was adopted and never bothered to find out who his real folks were. The scene where he talks about showing off his huge house to his father, who had anything but the desired response to it was just heartbreaking.

[flyonthewall2983]

I actually believe that within reason, Hogan and Flair have become friends (or the Pro Wrestling business equivalent of "friends") after years of highs and lows. I saw an interview with Flair where he said one of the first calls he got after Reid died was from Hogan. He didn't specify what Hogan said but he got choked up just talking about it. I don't doubt that Hogan and Flair have developed the ability to appreciate each other on a personal level after all these years, and respect what the other brought to the sport.

 

And yes you're right, it does Hogan's legacy no good for him to deny his peers credit. I prefer him working people with effusive praise, over Bret Hart still whining and taking shots at people after all these years.

 

I get the impression that Hogan and Flair at least have known each other since the 80's. They probably ran into each other in St. Louis a lot when Hogan was working for Verne, and Flair said in his book that whenever the NWA and WWF were in the same town or close to it they'd hang out together. He also said (and Hogan backs this up in the doc) that when he signed with Vince one of the first phone calls he got was from Hulk. For whatever reason, Hogan's ego made things hard for the two of them to get along easy in WCW.

[Victator]

Victator, it's funny you bring it up because Rory Karpf also directed the Tim Richmond 30 For 30.

 

You do understand Victator that really what kids want is to feel like their parents love them and want to spend time with them. The food and clothes mean nothing to them. Toys are great, but without parents who give loving attention the kids are going to be miserable. I can tell you this because I see it happening within my own family and we all do our best to make up for what the kid isn't getting from her mom.

 

I came from a lower/middle-class background and had a father in prison from the time I was 11 until shortly after my 18th birthday. While I know that Ric's kids "had it better" intuitively I can understand a little of whatever pain/frustration they had in having someone be as distant as he was.

 

One revelation from this doc was how much Ric was distant even from his own parents. I really don't remember if any of this was covered in his book or in shoot interviews, just that he was adopted and never bothered to find out who his real folks were. The scene where he talks about showing off his huge house to his father, who had anything but the desired response to it was just heartbreaking.

Well to go further into this. David is at an age where he should at least try to understand why Ric is the way he is. Also a larger point that a lot of kids get the short end of the stick with parents and don't even get taken care of financially.

 

With my own late father I had a lot of issues with him. He was an alcoholic and he did some bad things. He got sober later and thankfully I grew close to him. I also learned a lot of what caused him to have the life he did.

 

I have an older half brother, he is actually old enough to be my father. Even at his age he still waste energy being bitter at him without attempting to understand him as a person. Last year I attempted to contact him and it went nowhere.

 

David is wasting a lot of time that could be spent building a relationship.

 

Reading Flair's book and there seems to be a great underlying tension with his parents. But he will not really even acknowledge it exist. But I think it fuels the drinking and spending.

[C.S.]

A lot of bizarre psychoanalysis from a 20-second clip of David Flair.

 

As for Hogan and Flair, didn't Hogan pay for one of Flair's surgeries or some other big expense? So, yeah, I believe Hogan. I think he and Flair are genuine friends now.

[Loss]

Hogan and Flair are very good friends now. Flair reached out to Hogan after he went through his divorce and they have developed a close bond since then. I don't think they ever hated each other, even if it did get snippy at times and there was some gamesmanship from both of them. But that's wrestling, especially at that level and in that era.

[Victator]

A lot of bizarre psychoanalysis from a 20-second clip of David Flair.

 

As for Hogan and Flair, didn't Hogan pay for one of Flair's surgeries or some other big expense? So, yeah, I believe Hogan. I think he and Flair are genuine friends now.

Well I feel I pointed out that a lot could have been edited out that changes the context. Shit I think I said it twice.

[C.S.]

 

A lot of bizarre psychoanalysis from a 20-second clip of David Flair.

 

As for Hogan and Flair, didn't Hogan pay for one of Flair's surgeries or some other big expense? So, yeah, I believe Hogan. I think he and Flair are genuine friends now.

Well I feel I pointed out that a lot could have been edited out that changes the context. Shit I think I said it twice.

 

 

Fair enough, but what I think is more worthy of psychoanalysis is that Flair's parents were very distant with him and Flair (apparently) ended up being the same kind of dad to his own kids.

[dawho5]

So what we are saying is that daddy issues can cause the next generation to go through daddy issues? Shocking.

[Victator]

 

 

A lot of bizarre psychoanalysis from a 20-second clip of David Flair.

 

As for Hogan and Flair, didn't Hogan pay for one of Flair's surgeries or some other big expense? So, yeah, I believe Hogan. I think he and Flair are genuine friends now.

Well I feel I pointed out that a lot could have been edited out that changes the context. Shit I think I said it twice.

 

 

Fair enough, but what I think is more worthy of psychoanalysis is that Flair's parents were very distant with him and Flair (apparently) ended up being the same kind of dad to his own kids.

 

Its more Flair won't even acknowledge how his parents treated him. His first wife brought it up and got how much it hurt him.

 

Based on his book it really bothered him how tight his dad was with money. While at the same time never saying anything bad about him. His mentality was he was an embarrassment to them.

 

I think he took the mentality of he gave his kids every material thing they wanted. In his mind making him better than his dad.

[Hawkeye12]

A lot of bizarre psychoanalysis from a 20-second clip of David Flair.

 

As for Hogan and Flair, didn't Hogan pay for one of Flair's surgeries or some other big expense? So, yeah, I believe Hogan. I think he and Flair are genuine friends now.

 

Hogan paid to send Reid to rehab when he almost died the first time.

[Tim Cooke]

Anyone have an approximate month/year for this promo?

 

http://www.vimeo.com/244710480

[Victator]

 

A lot of bizarre psychoanalysis from a 20-second clip of David Flair.

 

As for Hogan and Flair, didn't Hogan pay for one of Flair's surgeries or some other big expense? So, yeah, I believe Hogan. I think he and Flair are genuine friends now.

 

Hogan paid to send Reid to rehab when he almost died the first time.

 

He also chartered a plane to visit Flair after Reid passed.

[Tim Cooke]

Anyone have an approximate month/year for this promo?

 

http://www.vimeo.com/244710480

 

11-28-87 WCW TBS Studio after clip of Flair getting the title back against Garvin

[iamthedoctor]

 

I actually think Hogan was genuine in his praise. He was specifically asked if Flair was better in the ring, not if he was better all-around.

I thought it was just Hogan being Hogan. Knowing what to say to babyface himself to the audience that would be watching a Ric Flair show. Image rehabilitation.

 

 

I always felt Hogan was a better wrestler (Not in ring work) than Flair anyway. Hulk did great in Japan and his big push in WWE and I just don't see Flair as popular as that during his run inb the NWA.

[flyonthewall2983]

You couldn't really market the Ric Flair persona the way WWF did Hogan's. It's natural setting is as a heel persona, up against an uber-babyface personality that a company would put that weight behind. After seeing the doc I feel the question of who was better is a bit nebulous at best. Just beyond any sort of athletic or physical capabilities, one couldn't do what the other excelled at. Hogan epitomized the 80's version of clean living to an extent, to the adulation of his audience (mostly children, taken with the super-human element). Flair epitomized, to an audience that was primarily of a lower financial strata, everything that they loathed and envied the 1% for.

 

That was at least the aim of what they did. Young men of a certain age, either having grown out of or just not interested at all in what Hogan was doing, looked at Flair as the ideal. Surrounded by beautiful women, wearing the nicest stuff, topped off with the bravado that comes from knowing you're the best. At the time Flair came to the WWF, I don't think Vince ever really took that into account. I won't say that Flair's work suffered for it, he managed to keep true to the character as much as possible. But that Vince's tunnel-vision couldn't allow something like the dream match with Hogan to happen as much as anything else.

[Loss]

Also, Ric Flair in 1991 was a bit damaged compared to the Flair they would have gotten had they signed him three years earlier or five years earlier. Flair was more believable playing the role in his 30s than he was in his 40s, and while he was still a great performer, he was not quite at the same level he was in the late 80s. Crockett was the smaller group, but I don't think they were ever seen as the loser group. WCW was seen as the loser group, and Flair was the face of it for a few years.

[flyonthewall2983]

Coupled with that, the company itself was about to take some major damage too. July 1991 is just when the Zahorian stuff was making it into the press, and also when Hogan made that awful appearance on Arsenio Hall, denying he took steroids. In the long-range view of things, signing one of the most recognizable wrestlers outside of their promotion took a backseat.

[flyonthewall2983]

 

According to Bill Simmons and director Jason Hehir on the latest episode of Simmons' podcast, this was shot just hours before he fell into his coma.

[shodate]

Flair is his peak was the best in the world 1980-1994 based on consistency alone if not match quilty he was put with alot of shit workers sting luger Nikita and dusty and pulled ok matches from them but the last almost decade and 1/5 of his active time knocks him down im sorry hos match wiih HBK was passable at best based on age alone alot of people aged better than Ric Fujiwara for exmaple there about the same age and Aoki vs Fujiwara was my match of the year last year and hes nigh on 70 so yes thta shows in my euys Ric sdaly never aged well in ring wise

[Victator]

Minus Nikita arguably, they were not shit workers. Sting and Lex were green and Dusty was outright good.

[shodate]

Minus Nikita arguably, they were not shit workers. Sting and Lex were green and Dusty was outright good.

i never saw sting as good,

dusty was good talker but i care not about talking about pure technique its ok for you have youre vires and me to have mine this is like the lawler debate i had with matt D and yes i like brawlers but dusty is not even top ten in that people like morgan were far better at that

luger had the look that is all

 

or a better way see why i do not see dusty as good wroker is look at my top 20 workers of all time list and you will see what i think makes a good worker

[Edwin]

Flair is his peak was the best in the world 1980-1994 based on consistency alone if not match quilty he was put with alot of shit workers sting luger Nikita and dusty and pulled ok matches from them but the last almost decade and 1/5 of his active time knocks him down im sorry hos match wiih HBK was passable at best based on age alone alot of people aged better than Ric Fujiwara for exmaple there about the same age and Aoki vs Fujiwara was my match of the year last year and hes nigh on 70 so yes thta shows in my euys Ric sdaly never aged well in ring wise

Sure, but Fujiwara and rarely if anyone worked the schedule Ric worked, so that's not really a fair comparison...