What are you watching?

[Exposer]

I agree with a lot of your description of the match, but I don't think Satanico became anything like a tecnico in the third fall. He was the one who was borderline fouling Cochisse (with that hold where he had his elbow in Cochisse's groin) and arguing with the referee after a two-count. Nothing Cochisse did in that fall seemed particularly unbecoming of a tecnico, either, especially given the way Satanico had worked him over in the previous fall and ignored Cochisse's request for a handshake at the start of the match. Kneeing Satanico off the handshake wasn't clean, but the announcer and the crowd had doubted the sincerity of the offer right along with Cochisse.

To be more clear, I don't think Cochise changed as much as I thought Satanico did. Yeah, he wasn't really a tecnico in the third fall but he did become the underdog and in some ways even gained sympathy from the crowd. It's the closest thing to a full turn I've ever seen in wrestling where a guy actually doesn't do a full turn.

 

I also think Cochise didn't think the handshake was sincere but the importance of that spot was that Cochise turned Satanico's game around on him and played him for a fool instead leading Satanico to be the underdog for the third fall.

[Gregor]

Okay, yeah, then we didn't see it all that differently. I remembered him weathering quite the storm in that third fall but still looking like a dirtbag, so it was probably just seeing "tecnico" that threw me off.

[Sidebottom]

Was in one of those weird moods last night to watch something obscure, and dug out the XWF tapings. Couldn't help but think what short term dross would turn up if TNA does go down. Weird cards headlined by Samoa Joe vs Ted Dibiase Jr.

[Graham Crackers]

I think something people need to understand when watching lucha is that tecnico and rudo don't mean face and heel in the same way we use it when talking about US wrestling. You need to think about them being styles of wrestling. Tecnicos use clean, athletic, scientific grappling ans sometimes high flying while rudos brawl and cheat. Typically tecnicos are babyfaces and rudos are heels but they don't have to be. Sangre Chicana may be a major babyface star in Arena Mexico in the 80s but he still wrestlers like a rudo. That's part of why rudo vs rudo matches in Mexico work so much better than heel vs heel matches in the states.

[WingedEagle]

I think something people need to understand when watching lucha is that tecnico and rudo don't mean face and heel in the same way we use it when talking about US wrestling. You need to think about them being styles of wrestling. Tecnicos use clean, athletic, scientific grappling ans sometimes high flying while rudos brawl and cheat. Typically tecnicos are babyfaces and rudos are heels but they don't have to be. Sangre Chicana may be a major babyface star in Arena Mexico in the 80s but he still wrestlers like a rudo. That's part of why rudo vs rudo matches in Mexico work so much better than heel vs heel matches in the states.

Is this always the case? If so it'd definitely help appreciate some matches a whole lot more, provided I know who's who going into it. There have definitely been times watching lucha where wrestlers just didn't fit the roles I expected for them going into the match. This might help explain why.

[Exposer]

I think something people need to understand when watching lucha is that tecnico and rudo don't mean face and heel in the same way we use it when talking about US wrestling. You need to think about them being styles of wrestling. Tecnicos use clean, athletic, scientific grappling ans sometimes high flying while rudos brawl and cheat. Typically tecnicos are babyfaces and rudos are heels but they don't have to be. Sangre Chicana may be a major babyface star in Arena Mexico in the 80s but he still wrestlers like a rudo. That's part of why rudo vs rudo matches in Mexico work so much better than heel vs heel matches in the states.

So, Hulk Hogan was a rudo?

[Sidebottom]

Been watching some OTR's with Michael Landsberg. Googled the guy as I know nothing of him, turns out he has a mental disorder and is suffering from depression. Shame.

[tim]

Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, Wrestlemania III

 

You know what, this match is pretty damn cool. Of course you have the big atmosphere and crazy hot crowd. But it's worked pretty darn good. Hogan hope spots tend to come off pretty cool transitions (Andre missing a headbutt and hitting his head on the turnbuckle, etc) and Hogan's brief runs of offense are pretty good and of course the crowd is nuts for them. The crowd is even into Andre's extended bearhug which keeps it from being dull. You get the cool, iconic visuals like Hogan collapsing under the weight of Andre when he goes for the slam out of the gate and Hogan up in the camera selling a bodyslam; and of course there's the ending. Fun stuff and a great spectacle. If I started ranking Wrestlemania matches I'd probably surprise myself by how well this would place.

[Badlittlekitten]

Low Ki vs Christopher Daniels vs Doug Williams vs Spanky (27/7/02 Crowning A Champion)

 

I've been slowly making my way through the early ROH shows from the beginning. Most of it doesn't hold up in my eyes, lots of aimless headdropflippityflop shit. This was good stuff though. It was hurt slightly by the wanky stipulation (four way tag, hour long iron man rules) which led to some occasional lulls in the match but it never remained uninteresting for too long. Low Ki and Williams were quite easily the stand outs in this match. Doug's matwork was always smart, snug and unique looking and his power moves were fun and impressive. Low Ki's selling of his kicking leg was phenomenal. Low Ki's a goofy fuck and he annoys the hell out of me character-wise, but he's good enough in the ring to make me forget all that. Daniels on the other hand didn't bother to sell the arm once after all three other guys had worked on it. I'll give Daniels credit though, the crowd started out too respectful of him, cheering on his dickishness in the early going, but the guy was such a infuriating prick (constantly breaking submissions/cheap shots to Low Ki etc.) that the crowd had fully turned on him by the mid way point ("Fallen Asshole!"). This match would have suffered without a strong heel performance and Ki's sympathy garnering would have been lost. Spanky felt like he was there to just fill the numbers to be honest. It could have been Brian XL and it wouldn't have made much difference. Good match overall, especially for an over long multi man match. I'd place it third behind Danielson vs Ki and Danielson vs Doug Williams as the best matches since the first show.

[Jordan]

Low Ki vs. Jay Lethal (ROH Midnight Express Reunion 2004)

 

Watched this earlier today and I think it reminded me how much I really do prefer Gangsta Ki to Honorable Warrior Ki. I guess being heel lets him get out any of his Napoleon complex issues in a more brutal fashion, and it works well in getting his opponent sympathy, since the crowd was pretty behind Lethal for this (and after watching some other '04 and '05 ROH, that doesn't happen too often). Plus he bumped big for Lethal's stuff and the little exchange outside with Ki and Lethal's mom was pretty well done. Dragon Sleeper finish near the end looked really nasty.

[Badlittlekitten]

Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi 7/29/93 AJPW

I can't say that this is the best Hansen match as I preferred him vs Funk 4/14/83 and the Kawada match from Feb of 93, but that's testament to the greatness of Hansen rather than a slight on this match. It's great from the opening bell. Hansen kicks in one of the young boys at ringside which leads to Kobashi smartly deciding to lay into the psychopath while the opportunity is there. Hansen being on the back foot for the opening stretch was a pleasant surprise. You always had the feeling it was only a matter of time though. Kobashi gets complacent and goes for one too many charges into the corner and is met with a boot to the face. Kobashi crumbles to the outside. The moment Hansen rises from the corner the crowd stirs and you know Kobashi's in some serious shit. And blimey . . that powerbomb. Hansen just tosses him onto the concrete, he doesn't guide him down or any of that pansy stuff. As Stan takes over you get all the stiff and delicious knees and elbows you'd expect but there's an extra urgency to them. Hansen doesn't so much lift Kobashi off of the mat without giving him eight knees to the head for the pleasure. And what's this . . an enziguri? A splash from the second rope? The man's full of surprises. Kobashi is the best baby in peril/fiery babyface type worker I've come across so far in my All Japan viewing and I loved the closing stretch with him resorting to various roll-ups in a fit to put the monster away, because nothing else will work. The ending was of course excellent. Kobashi had no other choice but to go high risk again with the moonsalt. He gets caught. A lariat from that position had the chance of looking not so great. It looked great. Perfect ending.

[stomperspc]

Oliver John vs. Timothy Thatcher (Wrestling Cares Association – 6/29/2013)

 

Wrestling Cares is a promotion run by Les Thatcher where their main selling point – at least in 2013 – is a year-long tournament with a lot “big name” indy guys involved. For some goofy reason, each match is contested under “most falls in ten minutes wins”. That sounds like it will be a disaster but most of the better guys in the tournament have found ways to utilize the stipulations or work around them without resorting to inexplicable falls 2 minutes in.

 

This is the opening match of the first round for the second block and is easily the best match in the tournament I have watched so far. John and Thatcher had a fun match in January in APW that was entirely built around a headlock. This match is worked more worked-shoot style and they are surprisingly adept at it. It makes sense to build a match with these particular stipulations around submission and knockout attempts because in theory that strategy is going to lead to quicker falls than working an opponent over in a more traditional US pro wrestling manner. The work is also very good. John shows some good striking that I haven’t seen a lot from him in prior matches. The submission attempts are not necessarily state of the art but for the most part they are pulled off smoothly (save for a couple of slower submission attempts by Thatcher late in the match). I thought they did a good job not only make the fall system work, but also utilizing the clock in an effective and entertaining manner. The match would have benefited from being contested under different rules in terms of no pins and a point system to award rope breaks and takedowns, but I thought they did the best they could with the rules they were given. I’d definitely recommend checking this out – it is probably my favorite US indy match of 2013 and is very good in a unique way.

[Sidebottom]

Low Ki vs Christopher Daniels vs Doug Williams vs Spanky (27/7/02 Crowning A Champion)

 

I've been slowly making my way through the early ROH shows from the beginning. Most of it doesn't hold up in my eyes, lots of aimless headdropflippityflop shit. This was good stuff though. It was hurt slightly by the wanky stipulation (four way tag, hour long iron man rules) which led to some occasional lulls in the match but it never remained uninteresting for too long. Low Ki and Williams were quite easily the stand outs in this match. Doug's matwork was always smart, snug and unique looking and his power moves were fun and impressive. Low Ki's selling of his kicking leg was phenomenal. Low Ki's a goofy fuck and he annoys the hell out of me character-wise, but he's good enough in the ring to make me forget all that. Daniels on the other hand didn't bother to sell the arm once after all three other guys had worked on it. I'll give Daniels credit though, the crowd started out too respectful of him, cheering on his dickishness in the early going, but the guy was such a infuriating prick (constantly breaking submissions/cheap shots to Low Ki etc.) that the crowd had fully turned on him by the mid way point ("Fallen Asshole!"). This match would have suffered without a strong heel performance and Ki's sympathy garnering would have been lost. Spanky felt like he was there to just fill the numbers to be honest. It could have been Brian XL and it wouldn't have made much difference. Good match overall, especially for an over long multi man match. I'd place it third behind Danielson vs Ki and Danielson vs Doug Williams as the best matches since the first show.

I have fond memories of that match, and that whole time period as a fan really. Ki vs Red (I believe it was the show before this, could be wrong) I watched a lot. I wonder how well that holds up?

[soup23]

Yesterday, after making the pilgrimage to my parents house, I dug through some old VHS tapes and found an old compilation VHS tape.

 

Watched Ki vs. Daniels from 11/3/01 and thought it was very good and built to a nice conclusion without blowing through too many spots. Refreshing to see this match with a hot crowd get over without doing too much and having a very sensible conclusion with Daniels winning clean.

[Dylan Waco]

Oliver John vs. Timothy Thatcher (Wrestling Cares Association – 6/29/2013)

 

Wrestling Cares is a promotion run by Les Thatcher where their main selling point – at least in 2013 – is a year-long tournament with a lot “big name” indy guys involved. For some goofy reason, each match is contested under “most falls in ten minutes wins”. That sounds like it will be a disaster but most of the better guys in the tournament have found ways to utilize the stipulations or work around them without resorting to inexplicable falls 2 minutes in.

 

This is the opening match of the first round for the second block and is easily the best match in the tournament I have watched so far. John and Thatcher had a fun match in January in APW that was entirely built around a headlock. This match is worked more worked-shoot style and they are surprisingly adept at it. It makes sense to build a match with these particular stipulations around submission and knockout attempts because in theory that strategy is going to lead to quicker falls than working an opponent over in a more traditional US pro wrestling manner. The work is also very good. John shows some good striking that I haven’t seen a lot from him in prior matches. The submission attempts are not necessarily state of the art but for the most part they are pulled off smoothly (save for a couple of slower submission attempts by Thatcher late in the match). I thought they did a good job not only make the fall system work, but also utilizing the clock in an effective and entertaining manner. The match would have benefited from being contested under different rules in terms of no pins and a point system to award rope breaks and takedowns, but I thought they did the best they could with the rules they were given. I’d definitely recommend checking this out – it is probably my favorite US indy match of 2013 and is very good in a unique way.

I love Thatcher and I know Kyle Matthews and Vordell Walker were in this tournament too. Is this available online?

[Wahoos Leg]

Low Ki vs Christopher Daniels vs Doug Williams vs Spanky (27/7/02 Crowning A Champion)

 

I've been slowly making my way through the early ROH shows from the beginning. Most of it doesn't hold up in my eyes, lots of aimless headdropflippityflop shit. This was good stuff though. It was hurt slightly by the wanky stipulation (four way tag, hour long iron man rules) which led to some occasional lulls in the match but it never remained uninteresting for too long. Low Ki and Williams were quite easily the stand outs in this match. Doug's matwork was always smart, snug and unique looking and his power moves were fun and impressive. Low Ki's selling of his kicking leg was phenomenal. Low Ki's a goofy fuck and he annoys the hell out of me character-wise, but he's good enough in the ring to make me forget all that. Daniels on the other hand didn't bother to sell the arm once after all three other guys had worked on it. I'll give Daniels credit though, the crowd started out too respectful of him, cheering on his dickishness in the early going, but the guy was such a infuriating prick (constantly breaking submissions/cheap shots to Low Ki etc.) that the crowd had fully turned on him by the mid way point ("Fallen Asshole!"). This match would have suffered without a strong heel performance and Ki's sympathy garnering would have been lost. Spanky felt like he was there to just fill the numbers to be honest. It could have been Brian XL and it wouldn't have made much difference. Good match overall, especially for an over long multi man match. I'd place it third behind Danielson vs Ki and Danielson vs Doug Williams as the best matches since the first show.

I have fond memories of that match, and that whole time period as a fan really. Ki vs Red (I believe it was the show before this, could be wrong) I watched a lot. I wonder how well that holds up?

 

 

I came away pleased after watching and reviewing it earlier this year.

 

http://www.prowrestlingpowerhouse.com/roh-...e-june-22-2002/

[thebrainfollower]

Kevin Sullivan's 1996 timeline review. REALLY good stuff, wish I had the Luger one and a few others I'm curious about. Sullivan probably has the 2nd best relationship to Hogan as a "boss" than Vince himself did in the 80's and finding out how he gets there is fascinating stuff.

[khawk20]

Watched the latest AWA 1981 TV offerings from WWE Classics on Demand today. Two shows from November 1981, with interviews included from Sacramento and Salt Lake City. The Salt Lake ones were generic, without a card upcoming, but the Sacramento ones were promoting a 12/27/81 Battleroyal, and the indications were the show itself aired a week before, on December 20th.

 

Not sure if WWE added the interviews to the show (since it aired a month + before the interviews were relevant), or if the AWA just sent a show down there that was older that particular week. Either way, the interviews were nice as very few of their tv re-airings have them included due to the interviews being sent around on a separate reel for each particular market and put together by the station when they got the footage.

 

No non-squash matches of note on either show.

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, Wrestlemania III

 

You know what, this match is pretty damn cool. Of course you have the big atmosphere and crazy hot crowd. But it's worked pretty darn good. Hogan hope spots tend to come off pretty cool transitions (Andre missing a headbutt and hitting his head on the turnbuckle, etc) and Hogan's brief runs of offense are pretty good and of course the crowd is nuts for them. The crowd is even into Andre's extended bearhug which keeps it from being dull. You get the cool, iconic visuals like Hogan collapsing under the weight of Andre when he goes for the slam out of the gate and Hogan up in the camera selling a bodyslam; and of course there's the ending. Fun stuff and a great spectacle. If I started ranking Wrestlemania matches I'd probably surprise myself by how well this would place.

I've always loved this match. One of my fav Wrestlemania matches ever.

[Sidebottom]

Watching the Lita bio, It Just Feels Right, released back in 2001. WWE DVD production has come on leaps and bounds since then. The difference in quality is staggering.

[Matt D]

Of all the things to watch...

 

I mean there's something like 7 years of Memphis TV just hanging out on youtube. Two years of Portland. A bazillion PR matches. A lucha 100 project going on right now.

[Sidebottom]

The heart wants what the heart wants...

[El-P]

Kevin Sullivan's 1996 timeline review. REALLY good stuff, wish I had the Luger one and a few others I'm curious about. Sullivan probably has the 2nd best relationship to Hogan as a "boss" than Vince himself did in the 80's and finding out how he gets there is fascinating stuff.

Indeed. And he's also pretty insightfull about how the nWo worked from the inside. And he's also pretty funny. His Death of WCW interview about his tenure as booker in 2000 was also quite fascinating.

[y2stump]

Fall Brawl 96- what a great time it was to be a WCW fan. The undercard here was really Lucha heavy (Rey vs Super Calo & Konnan vs Juvi) Benoit vs Jericho had a fantastic match. Hell, the Nasty Boys weren't even that bad! The story of Sting "joining the nWo" is one of my favorites & it's really cool to rewatch and feel like I'm 16 again.

[bradhindsight]

Watched the latest AWA 1981 TV offerings from WWE Classics on Demand today. Two shows from November 1981, with interviews included from Sacramento and Salt Lake City. The Salt Lake ones were generic, without a card upcoming, but the Sacramento ones were promoting a 12/27/81 Battleroyal, and the indications were the show itself aired a week before, on December 20th.

 

Not sure if WWE added the interviews to the show (since it aired a month + before the interviews were relevant), or if the AWA just sent a show down there that was older that particular week. Either way, the interviews were nice as very few of their tv re-airings have them included due to the interviews being sent around on a separate reel for each particular market and put together by the station when they got the footage.

 

No non-squash matches of note on either show.

I was always curious - are these shows the first time we're seeing this footage or is this something you probably have some place already?