WWE Network... It's Here

[The Thread Killer]

Thankfully, it appears recently Russo tried to mend that fence and Vince is not having any of it...

Vince Russo said during a YouTube interview with Fightful that he reached out to Vince McMahon regarding a possible return to WWE over the past week.

McMahon actually answered his former chief writer, although the WWE patriarch wasn't wordy with his response...Russo wasn't exactly clear where he stood with McMahon, but it seems he won't be making a dramatic WWE comeback any time soon. When asked if his one-time employer seemed receptive to a return, Russo said that Vince "never seems receptive".

Credit: WhatCulture.com

[C.S.]

What?!

 

No.

 

Just...

 

No.

You wouldn't love a Table For 3 with Russo? The other two could be Bischoff and let's say AJ Styles for the hell of it because they have to put someone random in there who is kinda, sorta linked to both guys.

 

Thankfully, it appears recently Russo tried to mend that fence and Vince is not having any of it...

 

Vince Russo said during a YouTube interview with Fightful that he reached out to Vince McMahon regarding a possible return to WWE over the past week.

 

McMahon actually answered his former chief writer, although the WWE patriarch wasn't wordy with his response...Russo wasn't exactly clear where he stood with McMahon, but it seems he won't be making a dramatic WWE comeback any time soon. When asked if his one-time employer seemed receptive to a return, Russo said that Vince "never seems receptive".

Credit: WhatCulture.com

 

Because Russo comes across like a complete out of touch ass now. His trolling about Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, etc. - which I doubt he really believes, but still - makes him seem like a relic of a bygone era.

 

Still, with all the other assholes who get Network interviews, "talking head" segments, Table For 3 appearances, etc., Russo should too. The heat he has with others would make for entertaining viewing in that format.

[DMJ]

I've found Russo to be insufferable on the podcast circuit over the past few years. Like, I know WWE weekly TV hasn't been my cup of tea for years now, but his ideas to make it better are actually even less likely to bring me back (shorter matches, more gimmicks to make us care about Seth Rollins).

 

For me at least, Austin's two-cents and, oddly enough, the things Nash, Hall, and XPac posit are far more basic and general, but more sensible and intriguing (Seth Rollins should be Bret Hart - no comedy, just mechanics and fighting spirit, let Owens talk even more trash and highlight that as his "thing," keep AJ at the top because he is the best guy they have, don't worry so much about Roman and just keep giving him fresh opponents - heel or face - cuz he's money either way).

 

Russo wants to blow up the product and that's dumb. It didn't work for WCW either time he was in control and they were way worse off than WWE is now. The sensible thing to do is to see what works and keep doing those things (Braun/Reigns or Charlotte's RAW run, for example) and see what's not working and fix those things (Rollins not being definable as a character) .

 

A complete renovation, as Russo often espouses, is exactly why he doesn't deserve a seat at McMahons table.

[The Thread Killer]

I am opposed to Vince Russo being invited back to WWE for talk segments etc. because it legitimizes him and gives him a platform. There would be those who think that simply because he is appearing on the WWE Network, he must be worthy of such an opportunity to be heard, and even worse, some people would listen to what he says.

 

Every time he opens his mouth, ridiculous bullshit comes spewing out - lies, distortions, obvious contradictions, idiotic justifications for indefensible and moronic decisions, perversions of logic and general nonsense. After he stops talking, nobody is ever the better for having listened to him. The man contributes nothing to any discussion. He contributes less then nothing. He contributes negative nothing, which creates a vortex into which an otherwise constructive or entertaining dialogue would be sucked, thereby suffocating it to death.

 

The only way I would ever want to see Vince Russo on any sort of televised broadcast, would be if he was placed on trial for crimes against Professional Wrestling. The prosecutor would be Jim Cornette, Russo's defense attorney would be Disco Inferno, and all wrestling fans would be the jury. And once he was convicted, his sentence would have to be permanent censure and banishment. No more podcasts, no more interviews, no more DVD commentaries, no more books. He would have to go away, and stay gone, for all time, never to be spoken of again, except as a cautionary tale.

 

That is something I would watch.

[Matt D]

I am opposed to Vince Russo being invited back to WWE for talk segments etc. because it legitimizes him and gives him a platform.

I'll agree with this sentence at least.

[fakeplastictrees]

Vince Russo being back in WWE, even for Table for 3 type of things, is dangerous for a lot of reasons. However, With WWE setting the pro wrestling narrative going forward (at least in America), why not have a different opinion and outlook chime in? Its really interesting the balance between keeping crazy out of WWE and giving the crazy a platform that will allow for the expansion of ideas and conversation. Conversation is a major mechanism humans use to improve stupidity. I feel pro wrestling modernist believe in dialogue (though not overly enthused in some cases). We believe that different groups can discuss differences in a civilized manner and come to a resolution in some-shape-or-form. However, the pro wrestling post modernist are not so welcoming to alternative viewpoints. With that said, I still think Russo is dangerous because he is one of those 'challenge the facts' people which creates 'alternative facts' talking points. Again, this comes back to being in work mode 24/7/365. If Russo is willing to be honest--I would be more than happy to hear him, but if its the carny bullshit that has been spewed out over the years---no thank you!

 

If Russo did come back, Vince would put him on 205 Live to 'shake things up'!

[NickH]

The next episode of Table for 3 will debut Monday after Raw, and will feature Ric Flair, Bruno Sammartino and Bob Orton

 

Also coming Monday June 5th, two new Collections

 

- Bruno Sammartino collection called “The Legend Lives" including an exclusive interview with the man himself.

- Ladder Match: Reaching For Glory featuring 30 ladder matches throughout history, Including lesser known gems involving Hall of Fame stars Dusty Rhodes and Beth Phoenix

[stro]

Cornette spouts as much bullshit as Russo and no one seemed to bristle at the idea of having him record talking head stuff.

[The Chief]

Getting a weird message about a blackout restriction due to content not being available in my area. Directs me towards wwe.com/blackout. Never had this happen before, anyone else?

[sek69]

Cornette spouts as much bullshit as Russo and no one seemed to bristle at the idea of having him record talking head stuff.

 

 

Cornette doesn't have a rep for destroying every company he touches like Vinny Ru does either. It's not just the bullshit with him, it's the bullshit plus the inability to admit (20 goddamn years later) that maybe some of his ideas were less than great, and the gross racism and misogyny that pervades everything he's involved in.

[El-P]

Cornette is also a terrific host of KC's Back to the Territories as he's a true wrestling historian with a passion for pro-wrestling golden days, was a great manager (the greatest ?) for 15 years, one of the best promo ever, promoted a cool throwback territory in the 90's in SMW. No matter how much bullshit he can spill out at times (this is pro-wrestling, who doesn't spill bullshit ?), there shouldn't even be an argument.

 

Russo, for fuck's sake...

[stro]

 

Cornette spouts as much bullshit as Russo and no one seemed to bristle at the idea of having him record talking head stuff.

 

 

Cornette doesn't have a rep for destroying every company he touches like Vinny Ru does either. It's not just the bullshit with him, it's the bullshit plus the inability to admit (20 goddamn years later) that maybe some of his ideas were less than great, and the gross racism and misogyny that pervades everything he's involved in.

 

Cornette as a booker: Failure in WCW in 1990, ran his own company out of business, was only successful in WWF (ironically) alongside Russo, completely killed ROH for the next 5+ years. Arguably, ROH's hype still hasn't recovered from Cornette's run, successful run in OVW on the backs of having 4 surefire superstar talents that barely spent much time with him before getting called up.

 

I'd say Russo and Cornette are basically two sides of the same boisterous, annoying coin. Russo had nothing to do with WCW getting shuttered, TNA is still alive, and WWE is still alive. Yet Cornette's promotion couldn't last more than a few years.

[Beast]

 

 

 

 

Cornette spouts as much bullshit as Russo and no one seemed to bristle at the idea of having him record talking head stuff.

 

Cornette doesn't have a rep for destroying every company he touches like Vinny Ru does either. It's not just the bullshit with him, it's the bullshit plus the inability to admit (20 goddamn years later) that maybe some of his ideas were less than great, and the gross racism and misogyny that pervades everything he's involved in.

Cornette as a booker: Failure in WCW in 1990, ran his own company out of business, was only successful in WWF (ironically) alongside Russo, completely killed ROH for the next 5+ years. Arguably, ROH's hype still hasn't recovered from Cornette's run, successful run in OVW on the backs of having 4 surefire superstar talents that barely spent much time with him before getting called up.

 

I'd say Russo and Cornette are basically two sides of the same boisterous, annoying coin. Russo had nothing to do with WCW getting shuttered, TNA is still alive, and WWE is still alive. Yet Cornette's promotion couldn't last more than a few years.

WTF?

 

Ran his own company out of business? He ran his own territorial company for four years during the '90s down period well after the majority of territories died off. How do you condense years of solid booking into a shot at him for not lasting longer?

 

He was part of the WCW booking committee in 1989 AND 1990. 1989 was killer. 1990 had Ole taking over.

 

You can knock Cornette all you want (RoH run obviously was a big disappointment), but don't act like he and Russo are cut from the same cloth.

[stro]

They're more alike than they are different, which I'm sure is part of why Cornette hates Russo so much.

[fakeplastictrees]

The biggest thing between the two is that Cornette doesn't come off as a huge bigot. He has DEFINITELY had his moments, but they seem to come from temporary anger while Russo's comes from a deeper darker place of pure hate. I am not in any way justifying Cornette's stupid past remarks, but I do not see the PR nightmare happening with Cornette being brought back into the fold. Russo? Give it one year...

 

From a pure 'wrestling' standpoint, WWE needs to feature more people with passion for the business and feature less of those who have nothing but contempt. This would be another point against Russo.

[El-P]

They have nothing in common *at all*.

 

Cornette and Heyman are the different sides of the same coin (for better and worse).

 

Russo has no clue whatsoever.

[stro]

Don't air any bigoted comments if he says them during a talking head segment. Problem solved. My point was both are obnoxious, loud mouthed assholes who have very little place in wrestling today, but people didn't seem to mind the idea of Cornette being a talking head in a heavily edited segment.

[The Thread Killer]

Although they like to hide it or avoid the fact...World Wrestling Entertainment is a Professional Wrestling organization.

 

Whether you like him or don't, you'd have to be a blind fool to not admit that Jim Cornette has an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of the Pro Wrestling business. He also has a clear love and respect for it. He has recently reviewed the recent Dunne/Bate match glowingly, and his love for The Revival is well documented. In other words, Cornette loves Pro Wrestling and can still find some good in it.

 

Based on his history, and things that other people have said about him, I have serious doubts that Vince Russo even truly understands Pro Wrestling. If he does, he obviously doesn't like it very much, at least in it's current form. This is a guy who recently said that if you think a match is "awesome" and you chant that, then it means you're probably a homosexual. Whereas he, (a non-homosexual sports entertainment fan) watches women's wrestling hoping to see a nipple slip.

 

I don't even like Jim Cornette, or at least the persona he portrays in public. He is also close minded and dismissive of others, rude profane and insulting. In that sense, sure...he and Russo are two peas in a pod.

 

Russo's vision of what Pro Wrestling should be, has either come and gone, or it never really came to full fruition. The era of wrestling that Jim Cornette came up in, (and clearly misses) has come and gone. The business has obviously passed him by. So in the sense that neither of them care for the current product as it stands, sure Cornette and Russo have something in common.

 

However the glaring difference between Jim Cornette and Vince Russo is that one loves Pro Wrestling and one does not.

 

That does not make them similar, it makes them dissimilar. And since Pro Wrestling is the main reason that anybody would listen to either of them, in the end that is the only difference that matters.

[C.S.]

Russo as a booker drew money (albeit for a very brief time, and not by himself). Cornette as a booker never has. That earns Russo a spot at the "talking head" table IMO. Both men's flaws are otherwise widely documented, both in this thread and elsewhere, so no need for me to go into that

[The Thread Killer]

Russo had nothing to do with WCW getting shuttered, TNA is still alive

 

This statement bears some scrutiny and is open to debate as well.

 

The main reason WCW died is because AOL Time Warner cancelled all WCW programming, true. It is likely that they would have done that regardless of what shape WCW was in when they took it over. However, the argument can be made that it was his inept booking that led to the loss of money and revenue that made those cancellations such an easy sell. All AOL had to do was point to the books, losing money and point to the ratings, flat-lining, and they had every justification for pulling the plug on WCW. If WCW was stable at that point, or still showing a profit, I am guessing it would have been harder to justify, if nothing else.

 

I'm not saying WCW dying is all Russo's fault, but saying he had nothing to do with it is a bit of a stretch, no?

 

As far as TNA goes, you can't really point to the fact that the company hasn't died yet as a ringing endorsement of Russo's skills. But you could blame him (and Dixie) for getting them thrown off Spike TV. You can't point at the shape ROH is in and blame Cornette, and then turn around and say that TNA is still alive, so at least Russo didn't kill it. I'd argue that Russo did a lot more damage to TNA than Cornette did to ROH.

 

[stro]

Going in either direction, it's hard to pin the blame on Russo. It had operated at a loss for years and years and stayed on the air because Ted Turner wanted it to be and had the stroke to make it so. Even if it was turning a big profit in 2001, it would have been shut down because Ted Turner no longer had the stroke to make it so.

 

If you want to pretend it was bad booking and money loss that caused WCW to get shut down (it wasn't, WCW would still be open if Ted Turner could still make it so), WCW was in a freefall well before Russo came in, and had a (very slight) uptick during Russo's first run before resuming its freefalling it had already been engaged in for nearly a year at that point.

 

Corporate politics killed WCW, not Vince Russo, or any other shitty booker.

[Loss]

Russo as a booker drew money (albeit for a very brief time, and not by himself). Cornette as a booker never has. That earns Russo a spot at the "talking head" table IMO. Both men's flaws are otherwise widely documented, both in this thread and elsewhere, so no need for me to go into that

 

That's not actually true, though. Is the standard for "drawing money" now that unless you were involved in the hottest period in the history of wrestling, then you accomplished nothing?

[El-P]

It's a wee bit easier to draw money when you work in the WWF under Vince MacMahon working with the two biggest stars ever, arguably, in the hottest period for pro-wrestling ever than when you do things on your own on a regional level during the worst period ever for pro-wrestling and you have Brian Lee & Tracy Smothers as aces. Wait, SMW did draw money for a while. So there.

[Loss]

I should add that I've come to see Cornette as a bit overrated as a wrestling mind, and I see him as someone more with good tastes in angles to copy than as someone who can conceive his own original ideas. But was SMW a failure? I guess so, if the standard is that they didn't last forever. That would be the case for all groups but one in the U.S.

 

I guess my point is that while Cornette never filled an arena with 20,000 people, he did outdraw WCW in the same markets at his peak, and that roster had Ric Flair, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude and others. He did draw 5,000 for Night of the Legends, which was a big success that wasn't aiming to be Wrestlemania, but was a big crowd in a market that hadn't seen numbers like that in quite some time.

 

As a wrestling mind, I think Eddie Gilbert was a better Jim Cornette than Jim Cornette. Ric Flair-Terry Funk, which did 15,000 in Baltimore and was the most successful feud WCW had until 1996, was his brainchild.

[C.S.]

At the same time, having the two hottest stars means less than jack shit if they're not put into a position to draw - e.g. Austin in WCW, the entire history of TNA, etc. Right place, right time for Russo? Maybe to an extent. But without him pushing the WWF to go from family friendly to Attitude Era, Austin and Rock are far different characters.