Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Timbo Slice]

Probably the best baby face ever. Resume speaks for itself, but I wish he didn't get hurt when he did. He could have made a run at a #1-type career if that was the case. Don't see him falling out of the Top 50 for me, maybe even Top 25.

[Childs]

Steamer is probably hurt a bit by the absence of footage from his Mid-Atlantic days. We assume he was very good to great for a lot of that time based on his reputation and the handful of classics we have from the early '80s. But he probably won't get full credit for that time. And he's a guy who had some real nothing years in what should have been his prime. The Steamboat of '92-'94 was an incredibly consistent, excellent performer, but it would be wrong to act like he maintained that level from '85 to '94. There's also the Flair line, which is at least somewhat valid, that he never worked heel. To add to that, he struggled to get over in Japan. He'll be a tough one for me -- no doubt he makes the ballot but I could see him falling anywhere from 35 to 75.

[Loss]

Did he really struggle to get over in Japan? He was invited back so many times. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just asking.

[Childs]

To my eyes, he did, at least compared to other American workers who were on the same level in that era. A lot of the stuff he did to garner sympathy in the U.S. just didn't click with the All Japan fans. I'm sure they respected his ability, but they didn't react to him like they did to the Funks, Flair, even Snuka.

[Timbo Slice]

Well, that's because all the guys you mentioned could work heel. Steamboat was a perpetual face and All Japan was not used to a face touring Japan like that. I know there were other guys who ended up working face, but I think that has to do with the crowd more than Steamboat.

[JerryvonKramer]

To me he seemed to be over in those matches vs. Sheik (awesome) and Snuka (terrible).

[ohtani's jacket]

Japanese crowds tended to prefer outlandish American gimmicks. It's a knock on Steamboat I guess, but the patchiness of his post Mid-Atlantic, pre-Dangerous Alliance WCW work is a bigger one.

[NintendoLogic]

Steamboat probably would have gotten over more in Japan if Abdullah and Sheik had bloodied him up and gotten the crowd behind him in a big way like they did with the Funks.

[JerryvonKramer]

Japanese crowds tended to prefer outlandish American gimmicks. It's a knock on Steamboat I guess, but the patchiness of his post Mid-Atlantic, pre-Dangerous Alliance WCW work is a bigger one.

Yes, but patchiness during which he had the matches with Savage and Flair that will form the bedrock of his case for a lot of people.

[Loss]

Are there are any standout matches from his feud with Muraco? I haven't seen anything from that feud that I can recall. I have seen some stuff from the Jake feud that I have enjoyed.

[Shining Wiz]

I can't think of a standout match with Muraco. I can't imagine Muraco was too jazzed to be used to get the new guy popular.

 

There is that great Bret Hart Boston Garden match from late 85 or 86 though, and the Jake stuff is great, and the Savage feud was fun.

[shoe]

I've always been a fan. I've always been a fan of his storytelling in the ring. To me he's the ultimate babyface worker. He's had great matches or feuds with a variety of wrestlers. You have Flair,Savage,Rude,Roberts,Austin,Blanchard,Anderson,Pillman,Muraco,Windham, Slater,Slaughter,Kernodle and a host of others.He had great single matches. He was one of the great tag workersin the likes of Anderson,Eaton, and that ilk. Young talent that worked with him usually learned from him and evolved into better wrestlers. Some of these guys are like Luger,Austin,Pillman, and Dustin Rhodes.

 

In regards to Muraco. It wasn't loaded with tremendous matches. Nothing I'd call 4 stars. Though their were a few 3 stars or better matches.

 

This is from 8/18/85 in Toronto

 

This might be the best match in the feud. Muraco is in the ring 1st while Steamboat is being announcedhe is running up the ramp to get his revenge from the hanging angle. Steamboat is all over Muraco with chops, strikes, and dropkicks. Muraco is bumping and flayling for Steamer. Muraco tries to escape and Steamboat climbs the middle of the top rope and comes down with a chop.Steamboat even leap frogs the ref to chop Muraco. Now Steamboat is focusing on Muraco's neck with clotheslines, spinning neckbreaker, chops to the neck, and he locks on a neck vice. Eventually Muraco gets the heat and beats on Steamer. Nothing to light the world on fire, but very heelish. He does some KOTM spots. Fuji gets in on the action and whacks Steamer with the cane. The hope spots were pretty great because everytime they happenned it felt the timing was right for a comeback. Finally he does make a comeback and he busts Muraco open with strikes to the forehead. Steamer is all over the cut. We're building to the finish and Steamboat is on the top rope ready for his flying body press, but Steamboat gets salt throw in his eyes for a DQ. This was a pretty good match.

 

 

Another one is a really good double juice brawl which takes Steamer out of his comfort zone. This is from 12-7-85 in Philly. Another interesting match note is he had a great match with Savage on the same day in Boston.

 

 

I was actually talking about the wrong match in my prior post. It was at the prior Philly show. I agree this is a low-end nomination. This was a fun brawl. It was hot to start. Muraco slingshots Steamer into the post and busts him open. He kicks, punches, gouges, and bites the cut. Just real good heat section. Everything Muraco does is aimed at Steamboat's cut. Eventually Steamboat busts Muraco open and chops,kicks, and beats on the cut. This is a double juice fight. Fuji tries to get involved and Steamboat chases him to the back. Steamboat beats the count. Then Muraco and Steamer brawl to the back. The finish made sense, but I would have liked it better if Steamboat didn't chase Fuji to the back 1st. I'd prefer that he'd KO Fuji and then work the dbl countout. The Fuji chase took away from the chaotic feel the fight had and took away from the chaos needed for the finish. This was a better body than the Sheik match that made the AJ set.

 

Here's a review of a match against Dick Slater on 6/13/84 that really doesn't get talked up enough. I hope people check it out.

 

I love this match. I'm a sucker for the impromptu match that the fans are red hot for. They are having an awesome fight that tells a great story. Both guys are tremendous at working each others back. It was a lot of fun to see Steamer go after the back. Slater sold his back well in the early portion. Steamboat's back drop landing on his feet had a real Eddie Guerrero feel to it. Eventually these guys are on the floor, in the crowd for a double c.o . Man they really left you wanting some more.

[goodhelmet]

Are there are any standout matches from his feud with Muraco? I haven't seen anything from that feud that I can recall. I have seen some stuff from the Jake feud that I have enjoyed.

 

When I put together a Steamboat set years back, the Muraco matches stood out as being below average. Since I have yet to see a standout singles Muraco match from the 80s, it just reinforces the idea that Muraco won't make my list of top 950 guys.

[shoe]

I'll say the majority of Steamboat/Muraco matches didn't do anything for me. I watched 16 of their singles matches and only 4 of them I'd rate in the 3 to 3 1/2*.

[elliott]

I was thinking about this earlier. You could argue that Steamboat was in

 

1. The best WWE IC title match ever (vs Savage)

2. The best NWA Heavyweight Title match ever (vs Flair, pick one)

3. The best NWA Tag Title Match (Final Conflict)

4. The best WCW Tag Title Match (w/ Dustin vs Enforcers 11/91)

5. The best War Games Match (1992)

 

In a world where Magnum vs Tully didn't happen, the Steamboat vs Luger Clash match would be a good candidate for best US Title match ever.

The Iron Man Match vs Rude is a strong candidate for best WCW match ever.

The tag with Tito vs The Dream Team is a strong candidate for the best WWF tag match ever.

 

Not really sure that I have a point but I thought it was pretty interesting. Initially I was thinking he'd be somewhere in my upper 30s or low 40s. But I could actually see him sneaking into my top 25.

[BigBadMick]

I was thinking about this earlier. You could argue that Steamboat was in

 

1. The best WWE IC title match ever (vs Savage)

2. The best NWA Heavyweight Title match ever (vs Flair, pick one)

3. The best NWA Tag Title Match (Final Conflict)

4. The best WCW Tag Title Match (w/ Dustin vs Enforcers 11/91)

5. The best War Games Match (1992)

 

In a world where Magnum vs Tully didn't happen, the Steamboat vs Luger Clash match would be a good candidate for best US Title match ever.

The Iron Man Match vs Rude is a strong candidate for best WCW match ever.

The tag with Tito vs The Dream Team is a strong candidate for the best WWF tag match ever.

 

Not really sure that I have a point but I thought it was pretty interesting. Initially I was thinking he'd be somewhere in my upper 30s or low 40s. But I could actually see him sneaking into my top 25.

Yeah, but how strong is the argument for Final Conflict, and how important was he to War Games '92? I immediately think of Windham, Austin, Rhodes and Anderson as more important to that one.

 

Also, v Luger as second best US title match ever is pretty weak imo.

And the Iron Man as best WCW match ever? To each his own, but....... well down my list anyway.

 

I do think Steamboat is very, very good, but I think you're overstating the value of these examples.

[JerryvonKramer]

There's a good chance one of his US title matches with Flair in 78 is better though.

 

I'd second Beach Blast as contender for best WCW match ever, only competition I can think of are one of the Flair / Luger matches or depending on if you count 89 as WCW, Flair/Steamer.

[elliott]

I think Final Conflict is the best US Tag match I've ever seen title or no title. So, I would say it's pretty strong. It might be my favorite cage match ever as well.

 

Agreed that he's not as important as those other guy's to WarGames 92 actually. And while he was definitely great in the match I'm not going to argue he was the main reason that match was a classic. It was more of an example of "here's Steamboat popping up again in another match you could argue as the best....something....ever." He's obviously a key player in all the other matches I listed.

 

I don't really think I'm reaching on the Luger or Rude matches. I guess when WCW became WCW is important because of the Flair/Steamboat and Flair/Funk series in 89. So I would amend that to say Steamboat vs Rude is arguably the Best WCW Singles Match of the 90s (I don't think it's better than WarGames 92). I freaking love Steamboat vs Luger too. Really great match with both guys looking awesome.

 

Also, just saw Parv's post pop up while I was about to hit send.

 

I was absolutely going to mention that Flair vs Steamboat probably had the best US title match back in the late 70s but I haven't seen a complete one. Although the clips I have seen are incredible.

[BigBadMick]

Well, you're persuading me that some rewatching is needed, anyway....

[WingedEagle]

Steamer absolutely belongs on my list. But I have zero desire to rewatch anything here. We'll see how that shakes out. Need to be objective and give certain matches another look.

[NintendoLogic]

I'd rate Luger/Steamboat the best US title match ever even in a world with Magnum/Tully. On the other hand, I actively hate the Final Conflict tag match.

[cheapshot]

Steamboat is a lock for top 50. Like others have said, arguably one of the great babyfaces.

[...TG]

Is there much out there from the Mid-Atlantic glory days?

[JerryvonKramer]

There's a fair amount 77-84, but it's mostly joined in progress. As is the way with footage from that era, you have to watch clips to get a "feel" for how someone was. And some of the clips are 10+ mins, mixture of Cornette Garbage tapes, arena footage, TV matches, etc.