Royal Rumble 2015 Thread

[Fantastic]

Also Rock was pretty pissed off at changes that were made and his annoyed reaction to the crowd booing was pretty much a shoot.

 

 

It's somewhat hilarious at how far they went for Reigns endorsement - paying The Rock to make an appearance - and the crowd still shits all over the fucking mess they created here.

 

I didn't watch the show, I was unable to, but I'm surprised - actually scrap that, I'm not surprised, more bemused at how WWE can completely learn nothing from last year. They have not only ignored the audience (McMahon always says shit like: "At the end of the day, our audience makes the product"), but potentially fucked up Reigns too, people just aren't going to accept Reigns as the intended Mania headliner. He'll be booed out of the building against Lesnar and their will be "We Want Bryan" chants throughout the match.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

That being said, purely out of self-interest, can WWE please release Daniel Bryan so we can get Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles!

 

They have wrestled many times - think there are matches on tape going back to 2000/2001. Thy definitely worked 1on1 at least twice in ROH, 01/11/03 [Ascension] and 28/01/06 [Dissension].

[Fantastic]

I did get to watch the triple threat, that was an awesome match. I really don't want Lesnar to go back to MMA. He's easily in the top three workers (along with Cena and Bryan) in WWE and put on a hell of a performance last night, that being said, I can't see even the talents of Lesnar bringing out a ****+ match against Reigns. Not to discredit Reigns who has shown he can be good, but it's just not going to work methinks.

 

Part of me wants Heyman to turn on Lesnar and for Rollins to cash in on Lesnar sometime between now and Fast Lane (maybe tonight on Raw?) and for Reigns to face Rollins at Mania for the belt with Lesnar getting Bryan. That's the only thing that could save the mess that was last night - Bryan being the one to end Lesnar's reign of terror (even if Rollins wins the title through nefarious means, which will be irrelevant because Bryan will win cleanly and fairly).

[Dwide Schrude]

Anyone know about refunds for tonight's Raw? Not because of the Rumble but because CT is supposed to have a blizzard tonight.

 

For arguments sake, if Daniel Bryan won last night I would come to Raw in a blizzard, though.

[Dwide Schrude]

Sitting here thinking about how they can salvage this mess....

 

Double turn Reigns and Lesnar (even though Brock is already getting cheered and Reigns is already getting booed) in the build to Mania with Heyman managing Reigns, and both of them sort of joining the authority, leaving Seth Rollins a forgotten man.

 

Reigns conquers Lesnar at Wrestlemania much to the chagrin of everyone in attendance, then Seth Rollins cashes in and takes the title catapulting himself into being one of the biggest babyfaces in the company.

Cena loses to Rusev at Fast Lane, Daniel Bryan vs Rusev at Wrestlemania.

[anarchistxx]

 

Sitting here thinking about how they can salvage this mess....

 

Double turn Reigns and Lesnar (even though Brock is already getting cheered and Reigns is already getting booed) in the build to Mania with Heyman managing Reigns, and both of them sort of joining the authority, leaving Seth Rollins a forgotten man.

 

Reigns conquers Lesnar at Wrestlemania much to the chagrin of everyone in attendance, then Seth Rollins cashes in and takes the title catapulting himself into being one of the biggest babyfaces in the company.

Cena loses to Rusev at Fast Lane, Daniel Bryan vs Rusev at Wrestlemania.

 

 

A far more likely scenario being: Bryan loses to Rusev at Fast Lane, John Cena vs Rusev at Wrestlemania...

 

 

 

He never went for the STF in the match IIRC which I thought was odd.

 

Pretty sure he countered with curb stomp into the STF at one point on Rollins.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

John Cena desperately needs to come up with a new finish and retire the AA for a while. At this point it's about as effective as a bodyslam in big main events.

 

He never went for the STF in the match IIRC which I thought was odd. The only sub attempt I remember was Brock's Kimura which Cena stood up out of leading to a flying knee to Brock's skull from Seth

I wrote in a Facebook chat that Cena only ever seems to do one move. The AA was like his sole offense in that match.

[anarchistxx]

That criticism of John Cena is straight out of 2005, Jerry. How long have you been out the WWE loop? Criticizing a WWE worker for lack of moves is an old and outdated trope. It is true they are often limited in that respect but that is down to the style. Cena has a serviceable amount of offense for a main eventer, especially since he spends a lot of time selling. It is a strange criticism of him last night when he randomly used a Powerbomb and Michinoku Driver.

 

His range of offense is far greater than that of his predecessors Hogan & Austin. He regularly uses a flying leg drop, diving shoulder block, sit out back drop, STF, release fisherman, cross body.

[sek69]

The main issue people have with Cena these days are his horrible punches and his weird style of moving/bumping that is only getting more pronounced as the injuries pile up.

[JerryvonKramer]

That criticism of John Cena is straight out of 2005, Jerry. How long have you been out the WWE loop? Criticizing a WWE worker for lack of moves is an old and outdated trope. It is true they are often limited in that respect but that is down to the style. Cena has a serviceable amount of offense for a main eventer, especially since he spends a lot of time selling. It is a strange criticism of him last night when he randomly used a Powerbomb and Michinoku Driver.

 

His range of offense is far greater than that of his predecessors Hogan & Austin. He regularly uses a flying leg drop, diving shoulder block, sit out back drop, STF, release fisherman, cross body.

I don't know I've seen a fair bit of Cena and he only ever seems to hit finishers to me. It's like his entire offensive arsenal is built around the idea of the false finish. Product of the time I guess, but as I've watched more 70s wrestling, I've become less and less enamoured at the very concept of a finisher and here's a guy who seems to be only finisher.

 

I did enjoy the match, but I had it at **** and others seem to be talking about it in MOTY terms, so I'm guessing I'm lower than most. Part of me also wonders if that was Scott Steiner circa 1992 or Kurt Angle circa 2002 throwing 20 German suplexes people might not be going so ga ga over it. But Brock seems to get a pass.

 

But you know me, I love suplexes!

 

I didn't think Rollins was very good in the match, and the stretch with Cena brought it down a fair bit.

[Grimmas]

 

That criticism of John Cena is straight out of 2005, Jerry. How long have you been out the WWE loop? Criticizing a WWE worker for lack of moves is an old and outdated trope. It is true they are often limited in that respect but that is down to the style. Cena has a serviceable amount of offense for a main eventer, especially since he spends a lot of time selling. It is a strange criticism of him last night when he randomly used a Powerbomb and Michinoku Driver.

 

His range of offense is far greater than that of his predecessors Hogan & Austin. He regularly uses a flying leg drop, diving shoulder block, sit out back drop, STF, release fisherman, cross body.

I don't know I've seen a fair bit of Cena and he only ever seems to hit finishers to me. It's like his entire offensive arsenal is built around the idea of the false finish. Product of the time I guess, but as I've watched more 70s wrestling, I've become less and less enamoured at the very concept of a finisher and here's a guy who seems to be only finisher.

 

I did enjoy the match, but I had it at **** and others seem to be talking about it in MOTY terms, so I'm guessing I'm lower than most. Part of me also wonders if that was Scott Steiner circa 1992 or Kurt Angle circa 2002 throwing 20 German suplexes people might not be going so ga ga over it. But Brock seems to get a pass.

 

But you know me, I love suplexes!

 

I didn't think Rollins was very good in the match, and the stretch with Cena brought it down a fair bit.

 

I had the three way at 4 stars too. It was real good, but a lot of aspects I hated.

 

A final singles match between Brock-Cena would had been better.

 

So, where do they go with Mania?

 

Brock-Roman

Triple H-Sting

Rusev-Cena

Rollins-Orton

 

Outside of Rusev-Cena that is a shitty upper card. What are they doing with Dean, Dolph, Bryan who are the main over guys on the roster. Bray?

 

What a mess.

[Childs]

I could see the triple threat being a match that looks a little worse when viewed at some remove. But in real time, I found it totally engrossing. I'm mixed on Rollins in general, but I thought he hit most of his big spots in cool, opportunistic ways. And he took some sick bumps off Brock's stuff. I didn't mind the stretch with Cena, because it effectively put over the idea that Brock really might be out of it. I'm not sure how their execution was during those moments, because honestly, I was sucked up in the broader story.

 

As for comparing Brock to Steiner and Angle, two things: 1) Brock is helped by his status as a freak show special attraction. If he was doing that shit every week on TV, it would lose its luster more quickly. 2) People loved Scott Steiner in '92 and Kurt Angle in '02.

[Matt D]

The selling of one suplex is different than ten too.

[flyonthewall2983]

All I've got to say is this. At least DDP was eliminated on camera.

[hammerva]

So apparently Vince is playing the "it is all the city of Philadelphia fault" for the reaction to Roman Reigns according to Meltzer. Might I add that Pittsburgh was the location of last year's Royal Rumble which is either known for a non-insider crowd or a crowd that doesn't give a shit about anything.

 

If they want to play this east coast issue with fan reaction, wait until Wrestlemania at the home of the World Series SF Giants if they have Daniel Bryan in a nothing match

[JerryvonKramer]

 

As for comparing Brock to Steiner and Angle, two things: 1) Brock is helped by his status as a freak show special attraction. If he was doing that shit every week on TV, it would lose its luster more quickly. 2) People loved Scott Steiner in '92 and Kurt Angle in '02.

I guess I'm wondering about those people who are down on Angle in general now or who don't like Sting/Luger vs Steiners.

 

People like my co-host Chad, for example.

[Bierschwale]

I didn't think Rollins was very good in the match, and the stretch with Cena brought it down a fair bit.

 

Rollins gave an incredible underdog babyface performance for most of the match. So of course his character has to be anything but an underdog babyface.

[thebrainfollower]

After seeing last night Jerry can we safely take you out of the Vince is still a genius camp? lol

[NintendoLogic]

WWE's TV rights deal is going to escalate to over $200 million in a few years. NJPW's annual revenue is about $25 million now.

 

Do t worry about WWE. Worry about your own enjoyment.

 

WCW grossed 200 million in 1998. They were gone less than three years later. And they had a hell of lot more structural advantages than current WWE.

[anarchistxx]

 

That criticism of John Cena is straight out of 2005, Jerry. How long have you been out the WWE loop? Criticizing a WWE worker for lack of moves is an old and outdated trope. It is true they are often limited in that respect but that is down to the style. Cena has a serviceable amount of offense for a main eventer, especially since he spends a lot of time selling. It is a strange criticism of him last night when he randomly used a Powerbomb and Michinoku Driver.

 

His range of offense is far greater than that of his predecessors Hogan & Austin. He regularly uses a flying leg drop, diving shoulder block, sit out back drop, STF, release fisherman, cross body.

I don't know I've seen a fair bit of Cena and he only ever seems to hit finishers to me. It's like his entire offensive arsenal is built around the idea of the false finish. Product of the time I guess, but as I've watched more 70s wrestling, I've become less and less enamoured at the very concept of a finisher and here's a guy who seems to be only finisher.

 

 

 

That is just the WWE style though, especially in big matches. First half of the match is generally just dull filler, as they waste time until they can start trading finishers and cheap popping the crowd for near falls. I can count on one hand probably the amount of WWE main event level matches with good pacing, build and structure over the last few years.

 

Unfortunately the fans have become conditioned to it also, so unless they are really into the feud or it is a particularly hot crowd they sit on their hands and wait for the big moves to start dropping.

 

 

 

I did enjoy the match, but I had it at **** and others seem to be talking about it in MOTY terms, so I'm guessing I'm lower than most.

 

I would have rated it around that also. It was good for what it was i.e. a WWE main event spot fest. Plenty of action, exciting, well laid out, believable near falls. An example of the style done well. It will probably lose a lot watched on tape as oppose to live, because with the drama and uncertainty taken away you are left with incoherent structure, bad/inconsistent selling and over reliance on finishers.

 

It is like NOAH in the first half of the last decade, you expect endless bomb sequences, lack of selling/fighting spirit, lots of chops and strikes that are often brushed off. It is just the style, and at this point there isn't much use complaining about it because the discussions have been raked over again and again.

 

 

 

Part of me also wonders if that was Scott Steiner circa 1992 or Kurt Angle circa 2002 throwing 20 German suplexes people might not be going so ga ga over it. But Brock seems to get a pass.

 

It is a bit different - Brock is booked as an unstoppable monster throwing these guys around. There is a purpose to it, and by and large the suplexes are sold like death. Kurt Angle would be doing trading German suplex spots every week until they meant nothing and the move lost any impact.

[Russellmania]

claiming that Cena's offense consisted of only the AA in a match where he did a powerbomb and a Michinoku Driver is a surefire way to get me to immediately dismiss everything else that you say.

[Dwide Schrude]

 

 

 

Sitting here thinking about how they can salvage this mess....

 

Double turn Reigns and Lesnar (even though Brock is already getting cheered and Reigns is already getting booed) in the build to Mania with Heyman managing Reigns, and both of them sort of joining the authority, leaving Seth Rollins a forgotten man.

 

Reigns conquers Lesnar at Wrestlemania much to the chagrin of everyone in attendance, then Seth Rollins cashes in and takes the title catapulting himself into being one of the biggest babyfaces in the company.

Cena loses to Rusev at Fast Lane, Daniel Bryan vs Rusev at Wrestlemania.

A far more likely scenario being: Bryan loses to Rusev at Fast Lane, John Cena vs Rusev

I was responding to a guy coming up with a scenario in which they would salvage the mess they made at the Rumble.

 

Unless you were just being tongue in cheek. In that case, disregard.

[sporadic]

Well, Vince is finally getting his mainstream attention he desires...

 

http://time.com/3682093/cancel-wwe-network-royal-rumble/

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/wwe-daniel-bryant-royal-rumble-eliminated-reaction

 

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/wwe-royal-rumble-daniel-bryan-brock-lesnar-roman-reigns-the-rock-012515

 

And blaming the Reigns backlash on Philly? Unreal...

[El-P]

 

Rock is like "welp, that didn't work".

 

Tells the whole story.

 

The best match (the only good match) of the undercard actually happened during the pre-show.

The undercard was a waste. Glad to see a NAO match in 2015 is exactly like one in 1999. People popping for the catchphrase then dying during the wrestling. The Ascension is terrible. Downright awful.

The whole Mizdow has run its course yesterday. Makes the tag title matches a big joke.

I'd argue that Nicky Bella was the best worker of this undercard actually.

 

Then this triple threat match. Well, that was quite the epic spectacle. Brock is unique. I wasn't a fan of kicking out of a hundred AA (yeah, that finisher is kinda useless) but really, this was one of the best triple threat match I've ever seen (not a fan of the concept, especially without elimination). If they called an audible, then they did a terrific job. Maybe not MOTYC on rewatch, but as it is, yeah pretty terrific spectacle.

 

Then. Well. I have no words. Yeah, Buh-buh was a nice surprise entrance, like DDP was. But then. Well, what can I add that hasn't been said. I dind't think they could be that dumb. But they are. The crowd non-stop booing is one of the most amazing thing I've seen on a wrestling show. The pop the "feel-good" entrance weren't half as strong as expected, and died immediately. Then when it couldn't get worse, the Big Show and freaking KANE in the final four. I dreaded Orton showing up, but this was even worse. And Rusev hiding out to be eliminated like nothing afterward ? Well. Poor Roman Reigns. When THE ROCK can't save the mess, you're in deep shit. These people are dumb as fuck.

 

Vince blaming Philly is hilarious. Because if you know anything about your audience, you don't do this kind of shit in Philly to begin with ! What a pathetic whiny douchebag.

 

So yeah. Amazing, amazing to witness. They learned jackshit from last year, and obviously don't want Daniel Bryan to be a top guy. Ok. Good luck then. Hope people are gonna get pumped up by that Roman Reigns push to the sky and by a 55 year old Sting. Reach for the future.

[Childs]

 

 

As for comparing Brock to Steiner and Angle, two things: 1) Brock is helped by his status as a freak show special attraction. If he was doing that shit every week on TV, it would lose its luster more quickly. 2) People loved Scott Steiner in '92 and Kurt Angle in '02.

I guess I'm wondering about those people who are down on Angle in general now or who don't like Sting/Luger vs Steiners.

 

People like my co-host Chad, for example.

 

 

Again, the special attraction thing is a part of it. As is the fact that Brock is portraying a monster, which Scotty and Angle never were.

 

I'm not a fan of Sting/Luger vs. the Steiners but my criticism has nothing to do with the match being a spotfest. The opening few minutes were great, but then they got really sloppy, and the whole thing petered out to a shit finish.