WashingtonFB Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 After Lana started throwing her shoes to distract Cena, Alvarez thought that she was going to throw her white scarf and the referee would interpret it as her throwing in the white flag. That might have been a little anticlimatic for a marquee Wrestlemania match but it still would have been much more creative than the finish they went with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 OK, I've been rolling this around in my head since Sunday night, because I wanted to listen to/read everyone's opinions to see if I'm crazy or not, and I'm still not really satisfied, so I'm just gonna throw out this thought here: Remember how some of us thought that Reigns/Bryan - actual match quality aside - was kinda dumb because Reigns was booked essentially as underdog to that 5'nothing scrub nobody Bryan, and if he struggled with him, how were we supposed to buy him against unstoppable juggernaut Brock? Do you what brilliant move WWE pulled to get around that? No, seriously, I'm asking you guys - do you what brilliant move WWE pulled to get around that? Because you all seemed to see it, or at least, you weren't bothered by it, and wasn't the case for me. For that matter, why was Lesnar able to devastate John Cena with a roughly equivalent assault while Reigns was able to laugh and smile his way through this one until he found his opening? Is Reigns that much tougher than Cena? He sure hadn't been established as being that. Why were three F5's enough to end the Mania undefeated streak of the Undertaker, but that plus a bajillion horrifying suplexes can't stop Reigns? Is Reigns vastly more invincible than The Undertaker? I know that hadn't been established. In some respects, the Mania main event was the strangest match I've ever seen. To the best of my recollection, it is the only match I've ever seen since realizing that wrestling was fake that I did not like purely because I was unable to suspend disbelief for it. In terms of the things they actually had direct control over, Brock and Reigns both gave excellent performances, but placed in context of the characters and how they've been built to this moment, the layout of the match mystified me. Before Rollins cashed in, it really looked to me like the goal was to establish Roman Reigns as exactly the kind of guy that every John Cena detractor ever bitched about him being, right down to incorporating the "smiley happy babyface who doesn't care that he suffered a setback" routine right into the match itself. Obviously, that's not actually what was happening, but in some ways, that just makes it more confusing. I don't know what to do with it, and really that's my story with Mania as a whole this year: what do you do with a show that technically gave you a lot of good things, but really just left you feeling hollow inside? Rusev's tank was the shit, though. I think we can at least all rally around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Do you what brilliant move WWE pulled to get around that? I know this is a typing error but what are you asking? I don't know the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Do you what brilliant move WWE pulled to get around that? I know this is a typing error but what are you asking? I don't know the question. I meant "Do you know what brilliant move WWE pulled to get around that?" The question, basically, is why I'm supposed to suddenly buy Reigns as who can eat bigger Brock beatings than both Cena and Taker fell to when all booking up to this point suggested the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Power of the Brass Ring? Wrestlemania adrenaline. He made Brock bleed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 kevlar, duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I wasn't bothered with Reigns taking such a beating personally - but what is more confusing to me is that people are calling this a MOTYC. I just don't see it, unless those same people would call Cena/Lesnar at SummerSlam 2014 a MOTYC too. To me, they were almost the exact same match, only SummerSlam ended with a clean finish. Also, I'd have to rewatch, but did Reigns bust out any new moves? I'm not saying he needed to change his arsenal or anything, but I was really hoping that, in preparation for the biggest match of his life, against a former UFC Champion, part of Reigns' "training" was that he was going to utilize a move or two that his opponent (and the audience) wasn't expecting. For example, Cena busted out a springboard neckbreaker that I don't think I've seen him pull out before in the 100s of Cena matches I've watched over the years. Another example would be Bryan debuting a new finisher at SummerSlam '13. I was pretty drunk at the time, but aside from the superman punch and the spear, did he do anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think part of what made Brock/Reigns special is that the story told in the ring and the match's real-life backstory were the same: Roman Reigns is taking the beating of lifetime to prove himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 No, seriously, I'm asking you guys - do you what brilliant move WWE pulled to get around that? Because you all seemed to see it, or at least, you weren't bothered by it, and wasn't the case for me. For that matter, why was Lesnar able to devastate John Cena with a roughly equivalent assault while Reigns was able to laugh and smile his way through this one until he found his opening? Is Reigns that much tougher than Cena? He sure hadn't been established as being that. Why were three F5's enough to end the Mania undefeated streak of the Undertaker, but that plus a bajillion horrifying suplexes can't stop Reigns? Is Reigns vastly more invincible than The Undertaker? I know that hadn't been established. Totally agree. That's why I said I thought it was a great spectacle, but not a great match by any means. Reigns just got up of so many bombs that at some point it kinda made Lesnar's offense look kinda, you know, weak, actually. Either that, or it made Reigns look like a Terminator (and you know that's Triple H's gimmick now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I really think it's intentional though. Austin called him on it on his podcast and the response indicated that Cena is aware of what he's doing and is doing it on purpose, whether for the safety of kids at home who might try it or for the same reason that Bryan got fired for the tie-choke or whatever. Then why do the damn move at all? Surely there are a million other moves he can do that would look a lot better while being just as safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Watching WM at a friend's house who's also a long time fan, and we both hoped during the Sting/HHH match that Flair would come out and turn on Sting one more time for old time's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The fact that Flair didn't come out is another reason I hated everything about that match. I hated the overbooking, hated the nWo being seen on the same level as the lackeys from DX, hated HHH winning, hated the nWo helping Sting which was against the story of th match, hated Sting's pathetic entrance, hated Sting standing like a loser while HHH did his Terminator shit, hated HHH winning and hated the bullshit handshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I wasn't bothered with Reigns taking such a beating personally - but what is more confusing to me is that people are calling this a MOTYC. I just don't see it, unless those same people would call Cena/Lesnar at SummerSlam 2014 a MOTYC too. To me, they were almost the exact same match, only SummerSlam ended with a clean finish. I don't get this at all. Cena-Lesnar was the extended squash of extended squashes-- when was Cena ever in control of that match? Reigns absolutely had control, or least the dominant momentum, during this match. Reigns winning was presented as a possibility at the apex of the match, which was never the case at SummerSlam. Night of Champions is a much more apt comparison, but that didn't have a quarter of the drama of Lesnar-Reigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I really think it's intentional though. Austin called him on it on his podcast and the response indicated that Cena is aware of what he's doing and is doing it on purpose, whether for the safety of kids at home who might try it or for the same reason that Bryan got fired for the tie-choke or whatever. Yeah I think most trademark submission holds in the WWE have looked really loose and weak since the early 2000's, or maybe even before. Benoit's crossface and sharpshooter looked like shit for years. Sharpshooters, boston crabs, crossfaces, HBK's inverted figure four, etc. have looked really bad, compared to past decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Power of the Brass Ring? Wrestlemania adrenaline. He made Brock bleed? Power of the Brass Ring helps him survive getting murdelized by Brock when it forced him to work even at best with nobody jobber Bryan? Wrestlemania adrenaline helped Reigns deal with Brock that much more than it helped The Undertaker? I mean, I guess when you're dead, your adrenal glands don't work so well, but come on! Didn't Brock bleed when he squashed Cena? Wasn't his reaction to stick his tongue out and laugh and then resume the slaughter? Unless Brock hit a serious gusher, why was blood working against him when he laughed it off in the Cena match? Also, I'd have to rewatch, but did Reigns bust out any new moves? If anything, he busted out less. The Superman Punches and Spears looked great - they always do - and I'm not a guy who thinks you need a giant offense to be a great wrestler by any means, but Reigns unbelievably surviving a Lesnar-sized asskicking and then evening things up by basically just spamming two moves until Rollins ran in really didn't help his case. I wasn't bothered with Reigns taking such a beating personally - but what is more confusing to me is that people are calling this a MOTYC. I just don't see it, unless those same people would call Cena/Lesnar at SummerSlam 2014 a MOTYC too. To me, they were almost the exact same match, only SummerSlam ended with a clean finish. I don't get this at all. Cena-Lesnar was the extended squash of extended squashes-- when was Cena ever in control of that match? Reigns absolutely had control, or least the dominant momentum, during this match. Reigns winning was presented as a possibility at the apex of the match, which was never the case at SummerSlam. There's no reason it should've been the case here, because there's no reason he should've survived that beatdown to make it to the apex of the match. I mean, there were ways to get there. Have Reigns blast Lesnar with a Superman Punch out of nowhere early, so Lesnar is thrown off his game. Give Reigns some hope spots here and there before the posting to keep it from being a total decimation. Let him escape/counter some of the throws instead of just taking them all and smiling through them. But no - book him to be literally more invincible than The Undertaker after spending all of the build to the match making him look like a chump. Whatever, guy who produced this match. Totally agree. That's why I said I thought it was a great spectacle, but not a great match by any means. Reigns just got up of so many bombs that at some point it kinda made Lesnar's offense look kinda, you know, weak, actually. It makes him look weak, it makes everyone he destroyed with it look weak, and since, three-ways aside, this is apparently all they can think of to do with him now, it also makes him look like a bit of a one-trick pony. A one-trick pony who doesn't draw. And who they just resigned to a multi-million dollar deal for several years. Hoo boy, this company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Read on 411mania that 10 minutes were trimmed off the main event because Rock etc went long. If true, do you think Lesnar and Reigns needed another 10? I thought it was timed perfectly. The timing issues might have been a blessing in disguise on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I read that recently as well, that they had to shave time off the main event and I thought "well good." WWE has a very bad habit of going too long in big matches. Oh since this thread is back up here I will just say I don't think there has ever been a match like Orton/Rollins where I didn't care about either guy and didn't really think they were having a good match but COMPLETELY popped me with the finish. The curb stomp into the RKO was beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Read on 411mania that 10 minutes were trimmed off the main event because Rock etc went long. If true, do you think Lesnar and Reigns needed another 10? I thought it was timed perfectly. The timing issues might have been a blessing in disguise on this one. I definitely wanted more time as it was happening but do agree that crowd seemed to be peaking. It might have helped. I thought the near falls at the end where much more dramatic than usual due to being so close to 11:00. If that contributed to it I think it was a plus. I do think it should end when people are wanting more. Much more effective way to get people to watch the next show than a hologram and Bray Wyatt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 As awesome as Brock was, and as capable as Reigns was, another 10 minutes would've been silly. The match with Orton at SummerSlam last year showed that Reigns going long doesn't always result in the best of matches. I think Brock did better with 15 minutes with Roman than Orton did with about the same amount of time, but at the same time, the match was laid out better. Plus, with that match layout, and them hitting bombs, a half-hour match wouldn't have worked in a realistic sense. 17 minutes, most of which was Lesnar-Reigns in a manliness battle, couple with a couple minutes of the angle, worked just fine. Rock-Rousey angle, and Sting-HHH were both long, but otherwise, no complaints about the time spent on each segment, although I would've liked to have seen the Divas get 10 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 As awesome as Brock was, and as capable as Reigns was, another 10 minutes would've been silly. The match with Orton at SummerSlam last year showed that Reigns going long doesn't always result in the best of matches. I think Brock did better with 15 minutes with Roman than Orton did with about the same amount of time, but at the same time, the match was laid out better. Plus, with that match layout, and them hitting bombs, a half-hour match wouldn't have worked in a realistic sense. 17 minutes, most of which was Lesnar-Reigns in a manliness battle, couple with a couple minutes of the angle, worked just fine. Rock-Rousey angle, and Sting-HHH were both long, but otherwise, no complaints about the time spent on each segment, although I would've liked to have seen the Divas get 10 minutes. Austin made an interesting point on his podcast review, regarding the Rousey etc segment - with so many 'pregnant pauses', apart from making the segment go too long, it also milked the crowd of enthusiasm that should have been maintained for the subsequent matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Just did a quick timecheck (this is hours and minutes) First 2 matches are finished by 0.49 Then it's 1.05 before bell rings for HHH-Sting. That's over by 1.26, then a concert takes us to 1.37. Entire Divas segment takes us to 1.50. HoF and intros for Cena-Rusev brings us to 2.13 for bell time. This concludes at 2.30 Then, Rousey etc take us to 2.58. Undertaker and Bray finish up at 3.27 Enjoyed the pomp and circumstances, to an extent, for the bigger matches. But I still think you should fit more than 7 matches in 4 hours. Oh, this is the main show. Edited April 9, 2015 by BigBadMick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.