Random questions thread

[Badlittlekitten]

Yes! Nice one Tim.😊

[JRH]

Kind of an odd question, but does anyone have a comprehensive list of everyone who's been doink (not counting guys dressed as doink for angles like jericho) in the wwf/e?

[The Chief]

So why did HHH and HBK both start using the Crippler Cross face less than a year after Benoit died? Really odd since neither one of them ever used the move before and, you know....

[artDDP]

I think Dave answered that one recently, Chief. Basically it was decided (can't remember if it was Vince or not) that it was time to associate the move with someone else.

[Superstar Sleeze]

This is in relation to the Memphis set. I just watched Lawler vs Bockwinkel from the Mid-South Coliseum 10/18/82 for the Southern Heavyweight Title that Bockwinkel was holding and he had just won the World Title back from Wanz. The next week (10/25) Lawler is challenging for the World Title, which makes no sense to me. Then we see clips of this match in the 1984 feud over the World title. Was this match actually from 1984 and mislabelled? Or did they just randomly switch the title Lawler was challenging for? Sorry if this was covered years ago when the set came out.

[PeteF3]

There was definitely some point where either the company or the set compilers got things mixed up. The lead-in match to the "$500 a punch" angle was shown out of place, somewhere. It was discussed at the time but on the old DVDVR board that's still gone as far as I know.

 

That said, I always thought Bockwinkel winning the Southern title was just a way to have Lawler beat him for *a* title, to show that he could do it and give him a satisfying payoff for once. Once he won the Southern title that would presumably give him a shot at the World belt.

[Superstar Sleeze]

There was definitely some point where either the company or the set compilers got things mixed up. The lead-in match to the "$500 a punch" angle was shown out of place, somewhere. It was discussed at the time but on the old DVDVR board that's still gone as far as I know.

 

That said, I always thought Bockwinkel winning the Southern title was just a way to have Lawler beat him for *a* title, to show that he could do it and give him a satisfying payoff for once. Once he won the Southern title that would presumably give him a shot at the World belt.

I am leaning towards the match labelled as 10/25/82 being from either late 83 or early 84.

 

To your second point, oh definitely! I can't wait for the No DQ match on 11/8/82 for the Southern Title!

[PeteF3]

That was the conclusion I drew, now that I think about it more. It's most definitely the same match they showed in the "Walls Come Tumbling Down" video before Bockwinkel's challenge. That was in January of '84.

[Parties]

I think Dave answered that one recently, Chief. Basically it was decided (can't remember if it was Vince or not) that it was time to associate the move with someone else.

 

I believe at the time Meltzer said it was Michaels' belief that the company needed to "take the move back" and that he was the one leading the charge.

[El McKell]

What's the deal with the thing where a referee kicks a guy's arm or leg off the bottom rope when he's trying to get out of a submission so that the hold isn't broken mostly in matches from the early 80s and earlier.
What am I meant to believe the actual rule here is? If the ref can kick you off the rope then you aren't really in the ropes?

[goc]

Yea you had to be IN the ropes and not just stretching all the way out to touch it.

[khawk20]

That was a regular gimmick in the AWA, especially in the early 80's. Referee Joe Fiorito in Winnipeg used that bit all the time.

 

Almost everyone watching a Winnipeg match back then needed it to be explained to them when they saw it, too. The idea makes sense, but the general goofiness of the spot always detracted from the match, imo.

[CarpetCrawler]

Just what the heck did "Relax with Trudi" mean anyway? That was the message displayed on Adrian Adonis' briefcase for a decently lengthy period of time after his team with Dick Murdoch was broken up but before he turned into "Adorable" Adrian Adonis. He had it with both Jimmy Hart and Bobby Heenan, and we never really got a good explanation from anyone over what it meant. People figured it had something to do with his gimmick transformation but it was definitely around for at least 5-6 months before he switched gimmicks, unless the "Adorable" gimmick was really supposed to be a slow turn transformation. Did we ever get an explanation, whether down the road or later on through Meltzer or something? I've been watching 1985 WWF lately and whenever Adonis shows up he always has it around so it's been making me curious.

[JerryvonKramer]

Here's my random question: is there a general thread about wrestling books? I'm sure there was one. The only ones I can find are from back in 2006.

[sek69]

Just what the heck did "Relax with Trudi" mean anyway? That was the message displayed on Adrian Adonis' briefcase for a decently lengthy period of time after his team with Dick Murdoch was broken up but before he turned into "Adorable" Adrian Adonis. He had it with both Jimmy Hart and Bobby Heenan, and we never really got a good explanation from anyone over what it meant. People figured it had something to do with his gimmick transformation but it was definitely around for at least 5-6 months before he switched gimmicks, unless the "Adorable" gimmick was really supposed to be a slow turn transformation. Did we ever get an explanation, whether down the road or later on through Meltzer or something? I've been watching 1985 WWF lately and whenever Adonis shows up he always has it around so it's been making me curious.

 

I've heard it mentioned that the Adorable gimmick was what was in the suitcase, but to be honest that always seemed like reconning since I've never really seen anything from the timeframe that suggests that was the deal.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Trudi was totally supposed to be the hint that Adonis was going to "come out". The RELAX bit was a reference to those Frankie Goes To Hollywood T Shirts that were popular at the time.

[CarpetCrawler]

 

Just what the heck did "Relax with Trudi" mean anyway? That was the message displayed on Adrian Adonis' briefcase for a decently lengthy period of time after his team with Dick Murdoch was broken up but before he turned into "Adorable" Adrian Adonis. He had it with both Jimmy Hart and Bobby Heenan, and we never really got a good explanation from anyone over what it meant. People figured it had something to do with his gimmick transformation but it was definitely around for at least 5-6 months before he switched gimmicks, unless the "Adorable" gimmick was really supposed to be a slow turn transformation. Did we ever get an explanation, whether down the road or later on through Meltzer or something? I've been watching 1985 WWF lately and whenever Adonis shows up he always has it around so it's been making me curious.

 

I've heard it mentioned that the Adorable gimmick was what was in the suitcase, but to be honest that always seemed like reconning since I've never really seen anything from the timeframe that suggests that was the deal.

 

I'm thinking it was retconning as well, because by June/July of 1985 he had the briefcase and the "Adorable" gimmick doesn't occur until January 1986 or so.

 

Random tidbit from the George Steele timeline interview with Sean Oliver: according to him the "Adorable" gimmick was Adrian's idea, and he was bragging to Steele about how much heel heat he'd get. Huh.

 

EDIT. RE: Johnny Sorrow. I figured the "Relax" bit had to be a nod to the song/T-shirt since that shirt was certainly a phenomenon a few years beforehand. Still, the timeframe just doesn't add up to me. Especially since conventional wisdom before the Steele shoot was that the gimmick was "punishment" for Adonis due to Vince feeling he was a slob. Even for a slow moving WWF of the time if the briefcase was always intended to be a reference to his "Adorable" gimmick that's a pretty slow burn.

Edited April 29, 2015 by CarpetCrawler

[Johnny Sorrow]

The whole punishment thing sounds like some shit someone made up. If Vince was really upset with him he'd have been fired,or at least made into a Saturday morning jobber; instead of given a gimmick that pushed him to the moon with feuds with Orndorff, Tito and Bruno, and Piper.

And George Steele is an Obama Kenya secret Muslim truther moron type, so I don't take much of what he says as factual.

[garretta]

Memphis didn't recognize Wanz or Jumbo as World champions, or even Martel until sometime in '85. Whenever Bock came in, he was always billed as the AWA World champion whether he actually held the title in the rest of the AWA or not, mostly because his matches with Lawler were so good and he drew so much heat.

 

Lawler got one shot at Martel in '85 (which is on the Memphis set), then they skipped over Hansen entirely, brought Bock back in for a few defenses in '87, then brought Hennig in for the change in '88. It's a shame that Lawler had burned his bridges by the time Zbyszko got the belt, as a Lawler/Larry Z series would have been tailor made for Memphis.

[Matt D]

The Nick Bockwinkel Championship is way better than the John Cena Championship.

[PeteF3]

Lance Russell did at least acknowledge that Bockwinkel and Martel had traded/won the titles with Wanz and Tsuruta.

[alexoblivion]

Has anyone else read The World of Lucha Libre by Heather Levi? According to her trainer, not sure who as I no longer have the book, Dr Wagner Jr is of no relation to Wagner Sr, and that he paid Wagner for the name. Also wrote that it was quite a common practice. Any truth to this?

[JerryvonKramer]

I can't recall where we discussed this and can't find it in the search, but I remember us wondering before why Wahoo McDaniel never worked New York after the 60s. One theory was that it was because Strongbow was there.

 

However, I've just been taking in the old Blackjack Mulligan shoot and he tells the story on there:

 

Basically, Phil Zacko was giving out the payments and Wahoo wasn't happy with the payoff and demanded parity with the main eventers. When Vince Sr found out he vowed that Wahoo would never work in the territory again and being a man of his word made that the case forever more. This was also the moment the brought in Strongbow -- who according to Mulligan was seen as an inferior talent in the business -- to replace him.

 

I like stumbling across the answers to stuff like that sometimes.

[Ricky Jackson]

The payoff part may be true, but the timeline doesn't match up. Wahoo last worked in NYC in, I think, 1965 and Strongbow didn't arrive until 1970.

[JerryvonKramer]

In fairness to Mulligan, he doesn't specify when exactly, I just inferred it from what he said. He just says "And then they went and brought in ol' Joe Scrapa in there. Who wasn't a real Indian." Or something like that.

 

Mulligan is a real character who really idolised Wahoo.