Elimination Chamber 2015

[benjaminkicks]

Man, for a show called "Elimination Chamber" both of the Chamber matches last night were pretty disappointing for me.

 

The tag match was full of capable wrestlers, and there were some bright spots like Cesaro being possibly the most exciting in-ring babyface on the main roster, but the structure of the match was all over the place, it had a lot of very contrived spots that I didn't like, and I think it really could've benefited from the inclusion of Harper & Rowan.

 

The good thing is that this is the most stacked the tag division has been in forever, and a good tag division goes a long way towards making me interested in the main roster again.

 

The IC title chamber match was pretty garbage. I actually like most of the guys involved, but the booking of them has been total trash pretty much all year. And now I really just don't care about any of them, because creative clearly doesn't, and everyone looks like a midcard jobber. Ryback winning is sole positive in my mind, because he's actually over and is the guy who probably needed the belt the most. There was a small window there where it looked like the IC title might be important again, but it seems like those hopes were put to rest when Bryan got hurt.

 

Other than Owens/Cena and the main (which were both enjoyable to me) it was a pretty weak show, and in my eyes one of the worst WWE PPVs/"Network Specials" of the year so far. BUT DESPITE ALL THAT, the main roster has a lot of good momentum now, and I'm interested to see what direction they go as we head into the summer months.

[Hector]

Ugh. Thank you for reminding me why I was so hesitant to sign up for this dumb fucking board to begin with.

[Grimmas]

Ugh. Thank you for reminding me why I was so hesitant to sign up for this dumb fucking board to begin with.

Nice post.

 

I'm glad you know what is in people's minds, better than they do.

[Hector]

Where was I say "Loss, you are projecting"? I was speaking in generalities until he responded to me directly. God this goofy white boy drama.

[Grimmas]

Where was I say "Loss, you are projecting"? I was speaking in generalities until he responded to me directly. God this goofy white boy drama.

You basically came in here and said everybody who thought this match was great was just Kevin Steen fanboys and the match actually stunk, without actually making an argument for that.

 

That is pretty shitty posting. Now, if you were to point out why you thought the match wasn't good, that would be a different story.

 

Also, why do you pretend to know people's race?

[The Man in Blak]

I really loved Cena-Owens. I don't really know what turn taking is other than a descriptor, and I'm not sure why it's necessarily bad. Finishing stretches usually tend to have both guys hitting desperation moves in succession, catching whatever they can. What's bad about that? I hear that thrown around as a criticism sometimes and I still don't know why. Are finishing stretches supposed to only have one guy hitting moves?

 

Specific to Cena/Owens, I think my issue is the how much desperation was presented at that point in the match. The timing and fallout from the failed pop-up powerbomb is a good example of this -- going for it early gives Owens a little bit of protection for it, but giving it to Cena so early robbed the move of so much of its drama because there was no way in the world Cena wasn't kicking out of that. Even someone like me, who is still catching up on a ten-year gap for modern WWE, knows that they aren't putting down Cena like that.

 

And then Owens, in the one and maybe only aspect of his performance that was lacking, sold a little bit of frustration from the kickout, but actually ended up underplaying the failure of a move which, to this point, had indeed been presented as a bonafide "death certificate" in NXT. I don't need Owens "talking to his gods" like Warrior in the Savage match at Wrestlemania VII, but I wanted something more than what we got (and what we got later on when he hit the 2nd one and ended up just landing on Cena for the pin as usual).

 

Some of this is the WWE template working against them (and, as you said elsewhere, that's probably a discussion better suited for common match criticisms); once you pick up the trope of "trading finishers," then you know that an early/surprise finisher isn't going to clinch it. But some of that, for me, also comes down to specific individual performances in that match.

[Badlittlekitten]

I only watched Owens/Cena and the tag match in full. The tag chamber was horrible until the end. Kalisto was irritating as fuck, match felt like TNA thrashing out on its deathbed.

 

The first three quarters of Owen's/Cena was superb, the splurge of meatballs towards the end took me out of it slightly, but WOW! Shock finish! Not a streak ending gut punch but a hefty blow nonetheless. I'm new to Owens and his act is real refreshing. After months of disinterest they've tickled my pink and got me invested into an act again. Bastards.

 

I watched bits and bobs of the other matches (except the divas rubbish) they seemed very underwhelming. I LOVED the video package for Ambrose before the main. Dusty finish isn't ideal but I think it's a good sign Ambrose kept the belt and got a little promo at the end. They'll build an angle round it, possibly ladder match? . .

 

Disappointing overall but looking forward to Raw.

[Badlittlekitten]

*meatballs = nearfalls. Auto correct classic.

[benjaminkicks]

splurge of meatballs

Sign me up

[Ricky Jackson]

I just thought it was Cockney slang or something

[JAC]

While I actually prefer for finishers to be less sacrosanct (I'd rather each guy have several moves that could conceivably, but not necessarily, end a match), I do think it's somewhat dubious to have someone kick out of Owens' signature move in his debut match. It would have been better if the match had been built around Cena avoiding the pop-up powerbomb rather than kicking out of it. Heck, they actually did do it to some extent, talking about how Cena knew Owens' gameplan and was fighting to stay out of it. If anyone was to kick out of the powerbomb, I'd be fine with it being Cena, but not in Owens' very first match, I think they should have protected it better. Save the kick-out spot for a big rematch down the road. And no, not at MITB. Next year sometime.

 

Nonetheless, it was a really fun match.

[Grimmas]

I had the best experience, where I started the show an hour late (after watching John Oliver) and then was able to fast forward through the IC Chamber and Neville-Barrett and fall asleep mid way through the main.

 

Best show ever!

[JAC]

I had the best experience, where I started the show an hour late (after watching John Oliver) and then was able to fast forward through the IC Chamber and Neville-Barrett and fall asleep mid way through the main.

 

Best show ever!

 

The key was to fall asleep right before the original ref came to after the main event, thereby avoiding the full Dusty.

 

I'll say this, I think they were smart to run the belt-stealing angle. The Dusty finish was pretty yucky, but by immediately having Reigns come out and get the belt back to Ambrose, and the having the faces take the belt hostage, they gave the fans something to cheer about. I don't like it per se, but if you're going to do the Dusty finish, I think that's the least annoying way to do it.

[JAC]

On the topic of my turn/your turn, specific to Cena v. Owens, I think they probably overdid it a little bit. It didn't really detract from my enjoyment of the match, but I don't think it left them much room to go forward. How do you build upon a match that was wrestled like a Wrestlemania main event? Both guys have already kicked out of each other's finishing move. It just seems like there's no room for progression in their feud match-wise. They emptied the cupboard in their very first match.

[C.S.]

Cena/Owens seems like a clear cut case of people projecting their emotional investments onto a match to make it seems smarter and better than it actually was.

 

Not a fair statement at all, when one poster said the match was more compelling than great, but he thinks he prefers compelling in this case. I agreed with that sentiment and referenced it in my own post.

 

And, come on, the very post above mine offers criticisms of the match.

[PeteF3]

Color me lost as to why "projecting your emotional investment onto a match" is somehow "bad."

[The Man in Blak]

Just for the sake of reference, here's a segment of Scott Keith's play-by-play from his write-up of Cena/Owens. (SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: This is not an endorsement of Scott Keith as any form of critic, wrestling or otherwise, to be taken seriously. Please refrain from driving heavy machinery for up to twenty four hours after taking Scott Keith seriously.)

 

I've deliberately broken up the sentences to show when control was traded around or close to a nearfall:

 

- Owens with a chinlock, but Cena tries to power out, so Owens hits the DDT for two.

- Owens slugs away, but Cena rolls him up for two

- so Owens puts him down with a senton for two. Cena fights back, but Owens gets a version of White Noise for two. Cannonball in the corner gets two. Cena makes the comeback, but walks into the Pop Up Powerbomb for two.

- Owens to the top, but Cena trips him up and hits the FU for two.

- They slug it out and [Owens] puts him down with a superkick,

- then stops for some mockery, which earns him an STF. [from Cena]

- Owens powers out and hits own FU for two,

- but Cena gets a tornado DDT for two. Guillotine legdrop gets two.

- Owens with the powerbomb for two.

- Owens slugs away, but Cena gets the stunner for two.

- To the top, but Owens reverses to a fisherman’s suplex in mid-air for two, then goes up again with a swanton for two. Cena puts him down with a lariat, but the Pop Up Powerbomb out of nowhere finishes at 19:55!

 

And there's not really much in the way of transitions between these points either, other than Owens jawing with the fans (which is good, but also started to lose its sting near the end) and a couple of signature Cena punch-trading sequences. That's a lot of zig-zagging in the latter half of a match.

 

On the topic of my turn/your turn, specific to Cena v. Owens, I think they probably overdid it a little bit. It didn't really detract from my enjoyment of the match, but I don't think it left them much room to go forward. How do you build upon a match that was wrestled like a Wrestlemania main event? Both guys have already kicked out of each other's finishing move. It just seems like there's no room for progression in their feud match-wise. They emptied the cupboard in their very first match.

 

Would you have said the same for Rock and Austin after their Wrestlemania XV match?

[(BP)]

My only criticism of Owens/Cena is that I felt they could have taken one nearfall out of the finishing stretch. For me at least, it was the senton bomb that felt a little much. I believed most of those nearfalls on a visceral level though, which is what I really need to love a match. Execution and wrestling smart is great, but at the end of the day I watch wrestling for that very rare moment where I'm transported back to being a kid. I know that's not the intent of a lot of the analysis on this board (which I love), but it's still what does it for me.

[Fantastic]

Owens should be WWE World Heavyweight Champion by this time next year, and possibly the number one heel worker in the company. WWE is really going all out on him... Hopefully they don't screw this up, because he's such a superb worker.

[JAC]

 

 

On the topic of my turn/your turn, specific to Cena v. Owens, I think they probably overdid it a little bit. It didn't really detract from my enjoyment of the match, but I don't think it left them much room to go forward. How do you build upon a match that was wrestled like a Wrestlemania main event? Both guys have already kicked out of each other's finishing move. It just seems like there's no room for progression in their feud match-wise. They emptied the cupboard in their very first match.

Would you have said the same for Rock and Austin after their Wrestlemania XV match?

Well, I haven't watched Wresltemania XV since I watched it live on PPV, so my memory is a bit hazy. It's an interesting question, though, so I'll try to come up with a decent answer.

 

I do remember the match a bit (specifically, I remember hating it and liking their Backlash match a lot more). To the best of my recollection, they did some crowd brawling, and I do believe that The Rock kicked out of a Stunner. While I don't want to defend a match I disliked, I'll say that "emptying the cupboard" would be more acceptable there because (1) it's supposed to be the biggest match of the year, so it calls for pulling out all of the stops; (2) Austin and Rock had feuded in the past, having at least one PPV match on December 1997, so The Rock kicking out of a Stunner could be said to be progression over his previous PPV loss to Austin; (3) I believe there may have been some delay in the ref making his count following the Stunner in the Austin/Rock match (IIRC), making it a delayed kickout. There was still the question of whether The Rock could survive a pin immediately following a Stunner.

 

To sum up, I think Rock v. Austin has more reason to "empty the cupboard", as I've called it, yet that match still left a little bit for future matches. The Rock proved to be a much tougher challenge for Austin at Wrestlemania 17, and overcame him at Wrestlemania 19.

 

In the context of Cena v. Owens, I wish they had saved the kickout from the pop-up powerbomb for down the road.

[DMJ]

Definitely had pretty different view of the show than many on here...

 

* I really enjoyed the tag chamber match. To me, the good outweighed the bad. I liked how the first half of the match featured the Luchas and Los Matadores doing their big high-flying stuff, but that the match noticeably shifted in its second half. I liked Kalisto getting caught up by New Day and the crowd responded by chanting "New Day Sucks!". To me, that's a smart way to get heat. The Ascension are awful (no argument there), but Cole was right - last night was the best they've looked and giving them two eliminations at least gives them some credibility. Cesaro and Kidd were great as usual, but Prime Time Players really shined. That was easily the best work I've seen out of Darren Young, whose offense looked more energetic and natural to me than it had in the team's first run. I've liked Titus for awhile, so, no surprise I dug his work here. Then you got the New Day - they're a great act. To me, the bad was Cesaro bumping for Torito and Kalisto dropping from the top of the cage, but all in all, I was entertained and felt like all the teams came out of it looking better than they went into it. I get the criticism that it was "messy," but, aside from getting rid of the 2-3 really questionable spots, I enjoyed it quite a bit. People calling that match garbage seems a bit heavyhanded.

 

* Similarly, the divas match was certainly not as good as Lynch/Banks from the NXT show (or maybe any womens' match from any NXT special), but I'm going to give some credit to the participants. No one executed well (the Tower of Doom spot and the half-Canadian Destroyer thing Naomi did to Paige both looked sloppy), but they were given a set number of minutes and obviously tried to jam pack it full of high-risk, impactful moves. I respect the effort. Put that same match on WWE programming anytime in the 90s or the early 00s (when womens' wrestling meant Bra and Panty matches and hair tosses as finishers) and it would blow people away, not necessarily for the execution, but for the ambition.

 

* The worst matches of the night were the IC Chamber and meaningful Neville/Dallas match. I'm not sure if I don't like Bo Dallas as a wrestler or I just don't care about Bo Dallas in his current role or if the writers have dropped the ball on Bo Dallas, but the result is the same - I want to fast forward or change the channel whenever he's on screen.

 

* Loved Owens/Cena, but wouldn't call it a MOTYC. Very cool "big match feel" considering Owens is a relative unknown. Didn't adore either guy kicking out of eachother's finish, which also hurt the actual finish for me because it just seemed to come out of nowhere rather than being the result of a true "knockout blow."

 

* Liked Ambrose/Rollins more than most it seems. Not a MOTYC or anything, but I enjoyed it quite a bit more than their Hell in a Cell match from 2014. I liked how this one was different than their Lumberjack Match too, which was much heavier on the brawling. The Dusty Finish is obviously something that those of us on this board have seen dozens of times over, but I know that my students (middle schoolers) probably lost their shit watching that (the same way I did when I was their age watching Jericho get screwed by Triple H). I thought these two delivered a good hard-hitting match that did not overrely on outside interference (one of my gripes about the Orton/Rollins and Cena/Rollins matches). Ambrose does repeat his signature moves too much and I'm amazed no agent has got in his ear about it, but I'm not giving up on him just yet. Similarly, I think Rollins is fantastic, at times a "Shawn Michaels with Better Offense," but he's still not as despicable or as crafty as he should be? I don't know what it is, but I do think he'll get there. Tonight's match was, like the opener, more good than bad, with easily the most dramatic nearfalls on a show jam-packed with 2-and-three-quarter counts.

 

 

As a whole, this was my favorite Network Special in quite some time.

[shoe]

I haven't watched the show yet. I listened to the Reaction show. So I was shocked to see the Observer Feedback.

 

WWE ELIMINATION CHAMBER POLL RESULTS

Thumbs up 128 (68.1%)

Thumbs down 16 (08.5%)

In the middle 44 (23.4%)

[goodhelmet]

Meltzer praised the IC Chamber match whereas we all murdered it. I liked the Tag match just fine but Dylan thought it was a net negative. Kris gave it a thumbs down oddly enough I guess because he hated the Dusty Finish. It doesn't surprise me at all that so many people gave it a thumbs up since it had Owens-Cena on the card.

[sek69]

I understand why they did it, and it was actually pulled off pretty well with the post match angle, but man there's nothing that creates a visceral feeling of "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this company" quite like a Dusty Finish.

 

 

To be fair, it could be due to PTSD from growing up a Crockett fan, but there's something about a finish that gives the crowd what they are clamoring for only to pull the rug out from them just seem like a slap in the face. It just seems like a bad business move to even suggest to your customers they might get screwed over.

[goc]

Yea I am really behind on WWE right now because I got a bit stuck in 1983. That said, I just watched Owens/Cena and I really liked it. But my feelings on it could be summed up by this:

 

 

* Loved Owens/Cena, but wouldn't call it a MOTYC. Very cool "big match feel" considering Owens is a relative unknown. Didn't adore either guy kicking out of eachother's finish, which also hurt the actual finish for me because it just seemed to come out of nowhere rather than being the result of a true "knockout blow."I

I also thought there was a huge difference between Lawler calling this match and like 99% of his other announcing stuff these days. He must be an Owens fan.