Jingus Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 We can judge THIS one, she clearly landed right on her head with nothing softening the impact. It's total luck on a bump like that if you're not hurt at all, or if you break your neck. These things are flatly unpredictable and the variables can come down to fractions of an inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 What's wrong with people? Awesomeness? She could have easily broken her neck there. Sure, and she's a professional who knows the risks that come with her line of work. It looked awesome when it happened, and it still looks awesome. By no means do I want her to get hurt, and at the end of the day she should be smarter about the bumps she takes. But, she's a professional and just like Bryan, Austin, and so many others it's her call as to what bumps she takes and she is the one who will live with the consequences. No need for me to add my moralizing or armchair doctoring to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If this was the intentional result, maybe. This was clearly a botch. She didn't try to land like that. So no, no awesomeness at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If this was the intentional result, maybe. This was clearly a botch. She didn't try to land like that. So no, no awesomeness at all. So no botch can be awesome, everything has to go 100% to plan to be awesome? That sounds wrong to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If this was the intentional result, maybe. This was clearly a botch. She didn't try to land like that. So no, no awesomeness at all. When it comes to how I react to something in terms of in-match awesomeness, intent is hardly ever a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Are you saying that serious injuries, or horrifying botches which could've literally killed someone, are awesome? If so, then goddamn, that's an incredibly sadistic thing to enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 As long as they weren't in fact seriously injured, I don't see why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well if taking bad bumps constitutes awesomeness then I guess professional wrestling has passed me by. I like smart wrestling. I like simple wrestling. I don't like two years and counting of supernova over Daniel Bryan not being able to wrestle because of all the bad bumps like this adding up. I don't like one of my two favorite wrestlers ever snapping and killing his family then himself and it's revealed he had the brain of a man double his age and diseased. But guess that's okay because they assume the risks of being wrestlers. Attitude like Bill is why I'm gradually becoming no longer a fan. I don't ever want to be so jaded that I don't give a fuck about people and only want to see the ooh ahh spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Like I said, they're professionals, they are grown adults, they make their own choices. I'm not jaded, I just choose to not be the spot police who deems it necessary to tell adults what they can and can not do in their given profession. It's not illegal, it's not them intentionally hurting someone else, it's them taking spots that will probably hurt them down the line. It's up to them to stop doing those spots for the good of their own health, and as long as those spots are still producing something I view as having merit I will enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm gonna have to disagree with Bill on this one. I thought it was a crazy spot when I saw it live but I thought it was incredible once that I knew she was ok. After watching that, I think it's a insane spot coupled with the dive she almost killed herself on in the Summerslam match. Hopefully this is something that she does only once and she can chalk it as one of the crazy things she does in her 20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I don't think Bill is being hypocritical, given his wrestling tastes. If anything, he gravitates toward workers that perform a simpler, safer style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I don't think the match needed it. That much I'll say. There were smarter and even more story-driven ways to raise the stakes. But that's not necessarily what's being argued here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The reverse rana is what put the match over the top for me. I assumed on first watch sasha took a moonsault bump, all stomach, this is much worse. But I'm with Bill, it looked good, she's not dead, not really my problem. Hope she stays safe and has as long a career as she wants to have. Some kettles in here screaming at black pots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Some kettles in here screaming at black potsHave you ever landed right on your fucking head while taking a bump in a wrestling ring? I have. It sucked, every time. I was lucky and never got seriously hurt. But one of my best friends ain't so lucky, a former wrestler who now has serious brain damage (like, "has such bad seizures that he's not legally allowed to drive a car anymore" kind of shit) and a permanent crack in his skull. He's far from the only example I could name, just the one most relevant for talking about bad bumps onto the head. So, yeah, pardon me if I sound like a motherfucking kettle screaming at some goddamn pots when I say that I don't find any enjoyment out of hideous botches where wrestlers get very hurt, or at least could've easily gotten very hurt because something went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I don't think Bill is being hypocritical, given his wrestling tastes. If anything, he gravitates toward workers that perform a simpler, safer style. I don't think Bill is being hypocritical at all. I like Bill and I went back to reread his earlier posts in the thread and we pretty much have the same view point. But for me, I felt guilty in enjoying that spot especially since now that I saw the Instagram slow mo and how on the NXT show cut really cut quick before she landed in last night's TV highlights where they had phantom cam stuff of the show (which looks really good btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The spot looked awesome when I saw it during the PPV. On slow-mo, watching Sasha landing square on her head, no, not so awesome. It was botched. Botched moves than can result in bad injuries are not awesome. It's that simple. It's not a matter of morals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 or at least could've easily gotten very hurt because something went wrong. I hear your concerns. The part I quoted is like every match ever. I'm not saying we watch wrestling like sadists do NASCAR, but the risk is assumed the minute they step through the ropes. They're adults, they're pro's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I didn't say anything about Bill being hypocritical. I said the attitude that he used in this thread is the sort of attitude I don't want to have, ever. Just to clarify, I don't know Bill and I am not charging him with a crime here. It might have been unfair if it sounds like I am singling Bill out here. That isn't my intent. It was just an example of a disturbingly prevalent attitude that I see people having with wrestling. Another thing is just because she turned out okay as far as we know doesn't mean anything to me. People never know the extent of the damage they incur until they wake up in 5 years and realize they can't feel their fingertips. But to me, that is a milder form of the same excuse people use, "Yeah I drove home drunk but nothing bad happened so it turned out ok". No, no it isn't. I do know people have to assume responsibility for their career choices but I look at it this way- Hulk Hogan chose to be a pro wrestler. So did Dynamite Kid. But only one can walk today. There is differences in how you CAN choose your career within the general concept of choosing to be a pro wrestler as your given profession. Like a few others said, Sasha did not need that bump. She didn't HAVE to do it. Like Brock Lesnar learned, he doesn't need to do a SSP to be the Brock Lesnar he is. Just where I stand on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I didn't think it even looked that good in the moment. Kinda unnatural looking, and contrived. It doesn't seem like terribly risky a move though, comparatively. They just got it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I liked Austin's suggestion that WWE should bring in AJ Styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I liked Austin's suggestion that WWE should bring in AJ Styles. Isn't AJ in that very rare sweet spot right now where going to WWE would be considered a step down for him? He's better protected in NJPW and the indies than he would ever be in WWE and by all accounts is making serious bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The upside to WWE now is more years down the line when you can become a legend, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 AJ is 38 and talking retirement within the next 5 years. He's super happy with NJPW. I think the WWE ship has sailed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Samoa Joe is about the same age and was in a similar place career-wise, and decided to take the plunge anyway. Never say never. The main problem is, what the hell would the WWE (outside of NXT) even do with AJ Styles if they had him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm not so sure AJ and Joe are a in a similar place career-wise. Joe is starting to break down physically, and that tends to happen faster with bigger guys. I got the feeling he took the WWE offer because he could see the end coming and wanted to grab something while it was there. Plus he's booked more as a special attraction than the "Best In The World" litmus test that AJ is, at least out on the indies. Feels like AJ is just better suited to be a freelancer. Not that I wouldn't love to see him tear it up in NXT/WWE. I just get the feeling it's not likely, at least not anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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