Am I Missing Something?

[Jesse Ewiak]

I actually think one big difference isn't so much the nerdery, even though there is a chunk of that, is that most of us remember the mid to late 90's, where the cruiserweights were stuck in the midcard, various great wrestlers in the WWF weren't pushed due to a lack of charisma, and so on, and so forth. So, the fact that frankly, that the top 10 pushed full time guys in the WWE are all pretty good wrestlers and that we're getting *** matches almost weekly on TV is kind of great. But, a newer fan doesn't only want that, they want 30 minute ***** matches weekly, awesome storylines, and every indy guy they've ever heard of in the mix for the World title. It's a matter of expectations.

[sek69]

So are we at a point where anything we don't like is the Most Awful Thing Ever and everyone involved in it needs jettisoned into the sun? Because it kind of seems like that's where we're at.

 

I mean, if someone or something isn't your cup of tea that's fine, but reading about people going into TV breaking fits of rage over corny gimmicks seems a bit excessive.

[Grimmas]

Author: Heather O'Neill
Band: Weezer
Director: Spike Jonze

Sports: Wrestling, hockey, and curling

 

Nerdy enough?

[WingedEagle]

So are we at a point where anything we don't like is the Most Awful Thing Ever and everyone involved in it needs jettisoned into the sun? Because it kind of seems like that's where we're at.

 

I mean, if someone or something isn't your cup of tea that's fine, but reading about people going into TV breaking fits of rage over corny gimmicks seems a bit excessive.

 

If the news doesn't make me break the TV, wrestling sure isn't. But it can be muted or left alone while I check on business elsewhere around the house. Much like if the Jets don't resign Fitz and actually trot out Geno again this year I'll spend Sundays on Red Zone or the other games. TV must live!

[Strummer]

I still like New Day but they are nowhere near as good as they were. If you don't like them I think it's going to get worse because Meltz has been hinting they have something big planned for them post mania. They are getting so much airtime now because their merch is selling very well. They have 3 of the top 10 selling items

[goc]

So are we at a point where anything we don't like is the Most Awful Thing Ever and everyone involved in it needs jettisoned into the sun? Because it kind of seems like that's where we're at.

 

I mean, if someone or something isn't your cup of tea that's fine, but reading about people going into TV breaking fits of rage over corny gimmicks seems a bit excessive.

This is what it seems like to me. We're at a point where people were freaking out about Kevin Owens being "buried" after losing a feud to Cena that saw him presented as a big threat to him and where he beat the top guy in his very first match on the main roster. And now some people are having a fit about AJ Styles not being immediately put in the main event despite the fact that he's gotten tons of TV time and is presented as well as just about anyone on the roster.

 

People keep having crazy expectations and then going crazy when WWE doesn't live up to them. Like anyone who thought AJ Styles was going to debut at the Royal Rumble and then be in the main event by WrestleMania wasn't being realistic at all.

[The Thread Killer]

So are we at a point where anything we don't like is the Most Awful Thing Ever and everyone involved in it needs jettisoned into the sun? Because it kind of seems like that's where we're at.

 

I mean, if someone or something isn't your cup of tea that's fine, but reading about people going into TV breaking fits of rage over corny gimmicks seems a bit excessive.

In my situation, it's more of a case of "what are other people seeing that I'm not?"

 

A couple of years ago, that movie Birdman with Michael Keaton came out. It got very good reviews and a bunch of people I know saw it and raved about it. So I saw it, and didn't like it one little bit.

 

The problem wasn't with the movie, it was that I had heard so much positive going in, my expectations were probably unreasonably high.

 

New Day and Kevin Owens tend to get a lot of love in the so-called "IWC." When I watched RAW, I really couldn't see the appeal. Still can't, but at least now thanks to this thread, I know other people agree with me.

[Loss]

 

So are we at a point where anything we don't like is the Most Awful Thing Ever and everyone involved in it needs jettisoned into the sun? Because it kind of seems like that's where we're at.

 

I mean, if someone or something isn't your cup of tea that's fine, but reading about people going into TV breaking fits of rage over corny gimmicks seems a bit excessive.

This is what it seems like to me. We're at a point where people were freaking out about Kevin Owens being "buried" after losing a feud to Cena that saw him presented as a big threat to him and where he beat the top guy in his very first match on the main roster. And now some people are having a fit about AJ Styles not being immediately put in the main event despite the fact that he's gotten tons of TV time and is presented as well as just about anyone on the roster.

 

In retrospect, that feud was not at all a good thing for Owens because he had nowhere to go but down after doing such a big feud out of the gate. That he beat Cena in his first appearance has zero bearing on anything going on in the company right now. They have really lost the ability to make moments stick.

[goc]

In retrospect, that feud was not at all a good thing for Owens because he had nowhere to go but down after doing such a big feud out of the gate. That he beat Cena in his first appearance has zero bearing on anything going on in the company right now. They have really lost the ability to make moments stick.

I agree with that, but I was saying the same thing at the time about if he would have won. You beat Cena in your very first feud in the company and where exactly do you go from there? You've already accomplished the biggest thing there is to do in WWE.

[Coffey]

WWE as a whole just feels like it's in a big rut right now. Not just because of the injuries either. Usually, in the past, even when things were down, you could count on the "Road to Wrestlemania" picking things up & making it interesting. That's just straight-up not the case anymore. It doesn't feel like Wrestlemania is even close, let alone the next PPV on the calendar. There's not any dream matches or money matches left. WWE hasn't made any real new stars. Ending The Undertaker's Streak was a big mistake. I just don't see the draw from anyone.

 

A lot of the new Indy people that WWE is bringing in, the guys like Owens, Zayn, Neville, etc. I just don't see any of them being stars. It doesn't really have to do with their look so much to me as it does when they come on TV, I don't care if I pay attention or not. They don't demand that attention.

 

Last time I felt like WWE had something special going was with The Wyatt Family & The Shield. The Wyatt's have no credibility now and I think splitting up The Shield hurt the show overall. I know the end goal was to make a star out of Roman & they got a decent run on top with Seth but the 3-man team running havoc on the show felt different... as soon as they split them up, it just felt like the same old thing again.

 

Now they brought back ANOTHER McMahon and that is supposed to sell Wrestlemania? How does that help WWE or the show on the Monday after?

 

EDIT: Daniel Bryan and his rise to ridiculous popularity was also pretty special & I forgot about that.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Coffey

[JerryvonKramer]

Not to "out" anyone, but I know Pete can geek it up with the best of them.

If you want to talk about wrestling being geeky, being a fan in the early - mid 90s made you a freakin GEEK, without single shred of coolness. I miss those days sometimes

How about sneaking over you friend's house to watch Royal Rumble 94 and ... MAINLY being there to root for IRS's bid to win the IC title from Razor?

 

I'm wondering if that made me legit the least coolest kid in the world for a few minutes there in 94. I was forlorn when he lost.

[WingedEagle]

Not defending the current state of creative, but the injury situation is pretty devastating for Mania season. I hope they examine whether its a whole lot of fluky injuries or a result of training/style because you do not want a repeat of this.

[Ricky Jackson]

 

Not to "out" anyone, but I know Pete can geek it up with the best of them.

If you want to talk about wrestling being geeky, being a fan in the early - mid 90s made you a freakin GEEK, without single shred of coolness. I miss those days sometimes

How about sneaking over you friend's house to watch Royal Rumble 94 and ... MAINLY being there to root for IRS's bid to win the IC title from Razor?

 

I'm wondering if that made me legit the least coolest kid in the world for a few minutes there in 94. I was forlorn when he lost.

I was rooting for IRS that day too, being a full on teenage heel fan at the time

[Bierschwale]

The problem with the fans wanting Seth Rogen and not Clark Gable is that Clark Gable vs. Sydney Greenstreet or Peter Lorre is a lot easier to book and sell than Seth Rogen vs. ...women, or maturity, or Gary Cole.

[Jesse Ewiak]

The problem with the fans wanting Seth Rogen and not Clark Gable is that Clark Gable vs. Sydney Greenstreet or Peter Lorre is a lot easier to book and sell than Seth Rogen vs. ...women, or maturity, or Gary Cole.

 

The ironic thing is that if you're the prototypical WWE-centric smart fan in 2015 - want long matches on PPV, indie guys pushed, don't care about the "look", believe in the Diva's Revolution, and so on and so forth, the WWE's current popularity is what you want. Because, the type of people you have to pull in to get wrestling "mainstream" again and drawing 5's or 6's on Monday Night and selling out every RAW are the exact type of people who will want the girls in bra 'n' panties matches, get bored at "good" wrestling, and think Kevin Owens looks like a fat geek.

[sek69]

I still like New Day but they are nowhere near as good as they were. If you don't like them I think it's going to get worse because Meltz has been hinting they have something big planned for them post mania. They are getting so much airtime now because their merch is selling very well. They have 3 of the top 10 selling items

 

 

It's clear that the New Day is getting the Smilin' Babyface Diesel treatment, and that's sad.

[NotJayTabb]

 

Not to "out" anyone, but I know Pete can geek it up with the best of them.

If you want to talk about wrestling being geeky, being a fan in the early - mid 90s made you a freakin GEEK, without single shred of coolness. I miss those days sometimes

How about sneaking over you friend's house to watch Royal Rumble 94 and ... MAINLY being there to root for IRS's bid to win the IC title from Razor?

 

I'm wondering if that made me legit the least coolest kid in the world for a few minutes there in 94. I was forlorn when he lost.

 

Ha, didn't IRS win the title only for the referee to restart the match and let Ramon hit the Razor's Edge whilst IRS was still celebrating? You must have been crushed.

[Tim Cooke]

I don't find that WWE has sanitized Owens' in-ring work. My complaints about it are pretty much the same as they were when he was in the indies.

 

This

[Infinit]

I think that the problem with the New Day now is that before they kind of said and did what they wanted but their segments seem to be more in the grasp of "creative" these days.

[dedhemingway]

 

My only real problem with Owens is that I don't think his look works. I usually hate the phrasing of "too indy" used as a complaint about people working in the WWE, but for once I think it fits. He looks exactly like someone from the crowd got in the ring, especially in his "gear" which is just normal clothing. His physical shape doesn't help, but he could get around that with good gear; instead, his shit looks terrible.

 

yeah, basically this. the gym shorts in particular are the turn-off for me, makes him seem like some random dude at your local gym's pickup basketball game.

 

and ya, New Day is one of those acts that shows a clear generational divide. they're *easily* the biggest reason my wrestling-watching friends still tune into RAW at all. offbeat shenanigans are the cool thing these days yo~

 

EDIT: i think the appeal of these guys (and Ambrose, et al.) may tie into something larger. specifically, whether you got into wrestling before it became purely a nerd fandom. we have a whole generation now who has never experienced it as anything but that, with Jimmy Redman probably being this board's most prolific example. basically, to a lot of people, wrestling is more Star Trek or Doctor Who than the NFL, and that means goofier or nerdier guys will have a lot more appeal.

i think of anarchistxx's post in one of the recent WWE threads, where they kept going on about how Reigns comes off as a real star and the other guys are indie geeks. a crucial point that misses is that the crowd themselves are geeks nowadays; of course they'll connect a lot more with people they see as "one of us"!

 

i will once again go back to Cody Rhodes saying "the fans don't want to root for a Clark Gable anymore, they want to root for a Seth Rogen". most people here were raised on Clark Gables and John Waynes, but that shit is passe to twentysomethings. that's really at the heart of these kinds of arguments, i think.

 

 

I'm a 33 year old American male who got into wrestling as a child in the late-80s, would put Terry Funk at #1 on my hypothetical GOAT list, and Owens, Ambrose, and Big E are probably my favorite acts in the company right now. For Owens, at least, it's because I watched his climb from PWG to here, have always found his trash talking on point, and thus have a connection to him.

 

I know I'm atypical, though. I'm a raver, college football is my favorite sport, Hunter S. Thompson is my favorite writer, Southland Tales my favorite film, and on and on. I'm a jumble of contradictions, so my opinion on things really counts for little.

 

I do think that if you're going to argue that the majority of the possible fanbase would find Kevin Owens a 'fat geek', you're wrong. All it takes is a look at popular culture to see that geek is chic.

[Johnny Sorrow]

New Day is an embarrassment not far from DX. But y'know I hate modern wrestling and everything about it.

New Day is awesome, you silly goose.

[joeg]

I think the New Day is hit and miss. Some stuff is really corny just like everything in WWE, but they have had some good TV matches. And occassionally their corniness makes a segment pretty great.

 

I have never like Owens. Every match he does something that defies all logic and reason.

[Zenjo]

Kevin Owens is a guy who pisses me off whilst I'm FFing through his matches. I sure don't hate on wrestlers for carrying some extra padding. His conditioning seems fine. His ring style appears to be the contemporary hit bombs, 2 count, OMG I can't believe I haven't won yet expression, run to next spot rubbish. His promos sound as scripted as the next guy's. None of that is the problem.

 

The problem with Kevin Owens is that he looks like a complete bum. I absolutely hate to see any wrestler compete in a T-shirt or sleeveless Tee in this case. It feels disrespectful, like he's shown up and forgotten to pack proper ring attire. The leggings and shorts combination just look ridiculous. His hair and beard are best suited to toilet cleaning. If someone who looked like that sat down near you you'd check your pockets and try to move away before the stench of BO becomes too overpowering. Now looking like a complete loser in the wrestling ring is no problem if you get treated like one. To see such an obvious jobber get pushed hard however feels so, so wrong.

[Bierschwale]

There's a certain value in Owens's look making him even more of a scumbag, except that he isn't enough of a "My family needs me!" huckster asshole for it to really connect.

[Cap]

I loved the New Day when they were a wink-and-nod critique of their own gimmick, but - like was pointed out early in the thread - once the WWE got a hold of them things sort of tapered off. They always miss the forest for the trees with stuff like this and think the wrong things connect. I assume the company has taken a more hands on approach in booking them and micromanaging what they do because it certainly doesn't have the same edge. They usually make me chuckle once or twice in a promo though. It is probably just me imposing my own will on the product, but I imagine that is where the New Day is actually being creative and diverging or playing up or down what the company wants.

 

Owens is a guy that I have soured on a little bit lately and I am a long time fan of the guy. I think his decent to madness stuff in ROH and his ROH title run were AWESOME. His appeal has always been finding a way to push the boundaries of how to build a character (and usually how to be a heel). When he first got to NXT and WWE I thought he was translating what he had done in the indies really well to the bigger stage. It was "PG" but it still felt fresh to the product. I actually found the "I'm a good dad and that is why I have to be an ass hole" thing to be solid, but they don't really commit to it anymore. he hasn't evolved much in terms of the little things he does. His strength is being on the mic and being a prick to people and then backing it up in the ring with monster offense early and "your hero just killed me" selling late. I always thought he was also better at prolonged blood feuds. He evolved more fluidly (as perhaps all wrestlers do) that way and he hasn't really got that. Even the Ambrose stuff (which I generally liked) felt more like a placeholder feud for both. As for his work, I still think he is pretty good at bringing something new and fresh to a match, a character that is developed on the mic, on the internet, and in the ring all at once. It feels more complete and a 2016 version of a 1985 approach to cultivating a persona. The E wont let him be a monster though, and that is where he thrives in terms of building a match that is more than spots or more than an "indy" style back and forth. I get why they haven't let him do that. I just think he has the skills to really work some good psychology into the match and really tell a compelling story, but he is a longform story teller, not as much a short, wwe-style-picture-book storyteller.

 

 

As for being nerdy...

 

I once got my girlfriend to agree to take a weekend trip to drive across Ohio for an ROH double shot. About 2 weeks before the shows we broke up (coincidence?), so I took my mom.

 

I just got a River Song Funko Pop figure in the mail for my office. It will join Capt. Picard, Jon Snow, Daniel Bryan, and the Tenth Doctor (David Tennantt is my Doctor, god damn it). My favorite author is (probably) Frank Herbert and my favorite band is (probably) the Hold Steady. I am not saying I am king shit of nerd mountain but I am certainly not cool in any conventional sense of the term.