Death From Above Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 There's nothing sane about being a wrestling fan. Hey now all that money I used to spend on shipping actual fucking VHS tapes to and from my house back in the day was totally worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 There's nothing sane about being a wrestling fan. Hey now all that money I used to spend on shipping actual fucking VHS tapes to and from my house back in the day was totally worth it. I threw some money down the drain. No idea what to do with those NTSC VHS nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Can somebody justify Rock over Maeda? I know Maeda vs. Cena at Wrestlemania would have been so much better. Everyone here has watched a Rock match, and most people here haven't seen many Maeda matches. That is probably the real reason. One guy was on TV and having big matches at the peak of wrestling's popularity. The other guy is a shoot style worker that you'd have to scour the internet to watch. It makes perfect sense to me. Although the counterpoint here is that because The Rock is so prominent, most people have seen all of his worst work from watching him week in week out, which can count against him. Whereas people who have seen Maeda are more likely to have focused mainly on the pimped stuff and not seen him at his worst. I'd say it's much more likely the opposite is true. Those who considered Maeda are the most obsessive of the insanely obsessive wrestling nerds, so it's much more likely they dove deep into a lot of styles and revisited stuff specifically for this project. Rock voters probably forgot half of his disappointing stuff and I seriously doubt an average Rock considered as many styles and workers as an average Maeda voter. Grimas could provide statistics for this so we can see who's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 At least we can finally stop asking "what about Maeda?" now. His placement does seem oddly high to me, for the reason that I don't remember ever hearing anyone really go to bat for him as being a great worker or having any number of matches worth visiting. Maeda is fantastic in the 80's but I am kind of baffled about the gap between him and Takada because late career Maeda isn't very good at all. And at least late career Takada involves fun nonsense in hustle. Maeda also scores a lot of points for "influence" and "importance" but given where American wrestling was in 95/96 there's a legitimate case to be made that Takada was the biggest star in wrestling for a brief period in the mid-90's so I don't really see it there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 El-P really working his "that 90s guy" gimmick to the max here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Damn Waltman was one thing but Hero hurts worse. My current favorite and a guy I feel like I've been on board with for at least 10 years. I guess he still made a pretty good showing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Fuckin Andre made the top 100. I would throw my phone threw the window if I didn't need it. Plus windows are expensive. WTF? Andre is freaking awesome and totally belongs. How can you make an argument for Triple H over Andre? Pretty easily if one wants to. Andre has a few amazing matches. He also has a ton where he not only encourages the viewer to sleep but in fact does so himself. Not sure I'd necessarily rank Triple H above him, but he absolutely has many more matches I'd rate higher and would prefer to rewatch. Different strokes and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 True, but someone should also get props for a match focused around body part work with lots of cool, varied offence working on a limb, not just taking a lazy approach to it and calling it minimalist. Less can be more, especially if you are a Jim Breaks who can make little things seem incredible...but nobody is telling me Kenta Kobashi would have been a better worker if he had ditched all the bombs and varied shit and had a tiny move set, relying on punch exchanges and personality to have great matches. You're talking me into ranking Lawler (and about 30 other guys I ranked below Kobashi) over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 El-P really working his "that 90s guy" gimmick to the max here. In what ways ? I didn't rate Lawler in 2006, I rated him this time around. Plenty of guys I loved in the 90's have dropped from my list too. My rating of Takada comes from rewatch of UWF and UWF-I/NJ done in the 2010's up until last fall. I rated Nick Bockwinckle in my top ten, way ahead of Flair. Bock wasn't even in my list in 2006. I could go one. So, really, not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 If you hate the no sell comeback, which is pretty much the standard of all big time US babyfaces, do you also hate the stupid 'lets willingly stand here and exchange chops/forearms' fighting spirit wankfests? I saw some Kobashi match in NOAH where he did like a 5 minute chop exchange with someone and its maybe the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 If you hate the no sell comeback, which is pretty much the standard of all big time US babyfaces, do you also hate the stupid 'lets willingly stand here and exchange chops/forearms' fighting spirit wankfests? The answer is yes. Especially the forearms ones. Drove me away each time I tried to watch puro in the late 00's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I smile every time that I go through the list and see Scott Steiner giving the finger to anyone who can't believe that he got a first-place vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 If you hate the no sell comeback, which is pretty much the standard of all big time US babyfaces, do you also hate the stupid 'lets willingly stand here and exchange chops/forearms' fighting spirit wankfests? I saw some Kobashi match in NOAH where he did like a 5 minute chop exchange with someone and its maybe the dumbest thing I have ever seen. The "let's strike each other for five minutes while making goofy faces" trope is something that is more a recent creation that was created by modern workers misinterprating why the strike exchanges guys like Kobashi, Takayama, Kensuke Sasaki, Hashimo, Tenryu etc. had worked. Even at something like having a three minute chop exchange Kobashi is just so much better than the modern guys. Not to say he isn't guilty of doing the same thing but it worked with him, partly because there were no weird pauses in the strike exchanges and the guys involved actually sold the damage and made it look like they were struggling to win the battle of striking instead of putting over their macho insecurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Can somebody justify Rock over Maeda? I know Maeda vs. Cena at Wrestlemania would have been so much better. Everyone here has watched a Rock match, and most people here haven't seen many Maeda matches. That is probably the real reason. One guy was on TV and having big matches at the peak of wrestling's popularity. The other guy is a shoot style worker that you'd have to scour the internet to watch. It makes perfect sense to me. Although the counterpoint here is that because The Rock is so prominent, most people have seen all of his worst work from watching him week in week out, which can count against him. Whereas people who have seen Maeda are more likely to have focused mainly on the pimped stuff and not seen him at his worst. That is absolutely a factor for a lot of people. I ranked Maeda, because I enjoyed the shit out of the little bit I watched of him, but it was a small selection of his best stuff. If we only watched the absolute best of HHH and we didn't see him drone on and on in his interviews, if we didn't know that he held people back with backstage politics, and we were in a foreign country with limited access to his work he'd probably rank higher. I think the biggest factor with guys like The Rock, HHH, Ric Flair, etc. are whether or not we like their characters. How many of our favorite Rock and Flair moments are just them being fun characters? They clearly had a lot of good matches, but that isn't why we love them. HHH doesn't really have any of those moments, but I don't think it is unreasonable to think he's a better wrestler than The Rock(I ranked The Rock higher). Basically my point is that we won't hold The Rock's flaws against him, because we like him too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Disappointed GOTNW didn't work in my "mugging for the camera" line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I'm bummed about Kerry making the top 100. I know some people whose opinions I really respect are advocates. But he had a short peak and I don't know that I've ever felt he was the better guy in a great match. I don't hate him or anything. I just see him in a similar class to Luger or Sting, and when I look at the list of those already eliminated, I see dozens of more skilled workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Master list is updated through 101, for those who care.http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33853-greatest-wrestler-ever-master-rankings-list-do-not-post-in-this-thread/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I'm bummed about Kerry making the top 100. I know some people whose opinions I really respect are advocates. But he had a short peak and I don't know that I've ever felt he was the better guy in a great match. I don't hate him or anything. I just see him in a similar class to Luger or Sting, and when I look at the list of those already eliminated, I see dozens of more skilled workers. I am a huge Kerry advocate... about 1/3 great match theory; 1/3 charisma and 1/3 Texas. I may or may not have been his high voter in 206. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I voted against people for Texas, so that's sort of countered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Disappointed GOTNW didn't work in my "mugging for the camera" line. Should have probabaly stated I was specifically referring to modern japanese wrestlers. Camera mugging isn't a thing there. In almost all cases the important feedback for them is that of the live crowd (often Korauken). It's.........different. American indy wrestling I'm not getting into. It was always going to be corrupted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 One thing I've wondered about is how much the tag list being there served to punish guys who are seen as tag workers. My mind is still stuck on Yatsu at #172: if you consider some of the guys who came after him, that one stands out for me. I don't know how many would seriously say Sting or Kerry were better workers if you ask the question directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Maeda's probably close to the top of a list of "second chance" entries -- candidates that I don't regret leaving off my list, but want to revisit anyway to challenge my opinions -- that I'll have coming out of this project. I dig shootstyle. I dig 70s/80s New Japan. Everything feels like it should be in place for me to love watching Maeda work, but it just doesn't connect for me. I felt like the Fujinami match, in particular, was almost a carry job. One other factor for me (and I feel like a minority when it comes to this): professionalism. Maeda's incidents with Choshu and (especially) Andre played a non-negligible role in keeping him off my list as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victory Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Fuckin Andre made the top 100. I would throw my phone threw the window if I didn't need it. Plus windows are expensive. WTF? Andre is freaking awesome and totally belongs. How can you make an argument for Triple H over Andre? Not in my world. I'm 43 yrs old and remember vividly how boring he was in person. Sure you had the awe of how big was, but once you get past that he wasn't a top 150 guy let alone a top 100 guy. Some things you can't erase from your memory no matter if they had a handful of good matches or not. The definition of overrated in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Finlay was boring to me in person in 1998. Tastes mature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Victory, were you around when we had the big Andre debate on the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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