JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 The exchange itself for anyone interested: JESUS CHRIST! Fucking awesome, LOL I can't wait to blast through 00s Kobashi! Amazing.So fucking stupid, but AMAZING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Endless chops are brilliant and lots of punches means laziness, got it.Aside from everything else that's been said to debunk this nonsense: chops make more sense than punches from a biological standpoint in a worked match. You really can chop a guy in the chest as hard as you possibly can, a hundred times in a row, and have him still come back for more. In what universe can you punch a guy in the head as hard as you possibly can a hundred times in a row (clean shots, not the grazing jabs that count for points in boxing matches) and have them still be as fresh as a daisy, or even not break your own hand? One of the most common complaints you'll hear over and over again from non-fans after watching an average American match is "it's ridiculous that they hit each other that many times in the face and nobody even has a black eye". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Eh. I didn't read Maeda's approach and going low as "buying time" as much as "okay, you giant jackass, let's have a real fight then." But it wasn't a "real fight" by all acounts. He asked Inoki permission to finish him at the end, didn't get it and then stormed off. If he wanted to have a "real fight" the match would've looked much different than it did. How do you even envision Maeda buying time and trying to work a match with a giant broomstick if not doing what he did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Russian Daydream Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 The exchange itself for anyone interested: I think a huge match like that in a huge venue like Tokyo Dome needed something huge like that exchange for it to fit the occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Endless chops are brilliant and lots of punches means laziness, got it.Aside from everything else that's been said to debunk this nonsense: chops make more sense than punches from a biological standpoint in a worked match. You really can chop a guy in the chest as hard as you possibly can, a hundred times in a row, and have him still come back for more. In what universe can you punch a guy in the head as hard as you possibly can a hundred times in a row (clean shots, not the grazing jabs that count for points in boxing matches) and have them still be as fresh as a daisy, or even not break your own hand? One of the most common complaints you'll hear over and over again from non-fans after watching an average American match is "it's ridiculous that they hit each other that many times in the face and nobody even has a black eye". This. Plus, since they actually chop each other to pieces like in the infamous Kobashi vs Sasaki match, the skin does turn blue. Throwing a gazillion punches to the face with basically no effect just looks stupid in the end, especially when you never win the match with, well, a final punch. Punching a guy in the face is not akin to slapping his chest with an open hand. So yeah, there's a difference. Not saying chop exchanges can't be lazy as fuck, as Benoit used to do in WWE for instance. The Kobashi vs Sasaki spectacle was amazing and it was a good fit for this match and its setting. And it's the fact they go so long that makes it great, because it's so ridiculous no one expects them to go to those lenghts. When it became just a formula, it became as dumb as a Ric Flair goof spot. Fun and dumb. And when Kojima did his own version, it became just bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Remind me to watch this stupid chop match next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Surprised about some of the comments on Low Ki. I was disappointed he finished outside the 100 and think he has a very good case for being considered a top 100 wrestler of all time. Childs summed up Ki's positive points nicely. In terms of guys who I voted for based significantly on their 2000s US indies work, Ki was second only behind Danielson (although it was close between him and Joe). He is clearly a step above people like Hero and Generico who will finish ahead of him and I him ahead of Styles as well. Ki had a unique style that really worked, was adaptive, and like Childs said he has a 15+ year track record of high level matches. Seems like a reasonable "just missed" guy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 That was my first time seeing that chop exchange. Now I'm more convinced I didn't make a mistake in not ranking Kobashi after watching that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I think the Low Ki criticism translates to "He's a great worker, but I hate every time that I have to begrudgingly admit that about a guy who played to 'This is awesome' and 'Match of the Year' chants in front of a few hundred attention whores far too frequently." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I think the Low Ki criticism translates to "He's a great worker, but I hate every time that I have to begrudgingly admit that about a guy who played to 'This is awesome' and 'Match of the Year' chants in front of a few hundred attention whores far too frequently." Charles, would you like a job as a spin doctor? You do an excellent job of condensing what I think into handy soundbites and succinct slogans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I will say that I much prefer Tenryu's "chop you in the throat" approach to Chopbashi. Plus Tenryu will punch you in the face too. I can't remember if I had Low Ki on my list. If I did then it was in that low region which is constantly changing. I think his resume is thinner than people admit. Especially in the last couple years, with the constant bridge burning and going back and forth. Love his early stuff with Red though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Almost got Christian to the top 100...was really pulling for him... Lost Colon and Larry Z too... I ranked Kobashi high... Very high...can't wait to see how this top 100 plays out... I think I've lost 31 guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 At least think that chop exchange accomplished what it set out to and the intentions were pretty clear. Unlike say Matt Morgan vs Crimson. Which is better summed up in GIF form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 What's with this myth that Maeda wasn't very good at shoot style? I wonder how many of the cool picks in the top 100 will drop straight away. I'm surprised that Backlund did so well as it seemed the height of his critical reappraisal was long gone and actually imagined he'd do better if the poll had been held five years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 cool picks My mental image of OJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 My image of Parv! You know, a funny thing happened to me on a wrestling forum the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victory Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Victory, were you around when we had the big Andre debate on the board?Not sure. I've read snippets here and there of some of you talking him up. Just not my cup of tea I guess. Who knows maybe I can be swayed by the time 2026 comes around .Just to give you the cliffs: Some of us felt that the idea that Andre was great in his peak is a little over-stated because almost all his best performances come away from New York. He consistently dogs it at MSG or in Philly. And yet has ****+ matches in Houston and Japan, and sprited performances elsewhere (one in Detroit springs to mind). I still ranked Andre because he was unique, played his role to perfection, and because when he was on, he was really on, but it's not a ranking that is blind to some of Andre's flaws. I don't believe people who claim to really value consistency -- for example -- should be ranking him. I can go along with that. He was good in his role and knew his limitations. I just don't see him as a top 100 guy. Too much boring stuff that doesn't override the good stuff he has. My comment of him not even being a top 150 guy is probably harsh. If he would of landed say 130 or so I wouldn't of even made a comment on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I think the Low Ki criticism translates to "He's a great worker, but I hate every time that I have to begrudgingly admit that about a guy who played to 'This is awesome' and 'Match of the Year' chants in front of a few hundred attention whores far too frequently." This is a great post because it is totally accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 With these additional non-PWO/anonymous votes I am more convinced Flair is gonna win the whole thing easily. Me too. And honestly, that's so lame if that's the case (not Flair winning, although it is in a way, but Flair winning because of this). Just occurred to me that the idea of X amount of anonymous voters helping to see him over the line is quite a fitting tribute to his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 So when Chris Benoit drops can we get like a whole other reaction thread just for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 So I'm going to have 80 guys in the Top 100 on my list. Benoit making the list is a bit troubling for me, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 The exchange itself for anyone interested: JESUS CHRIST! Fucking awesome, LOL I can't wait to blast through 00s Kobashi! Amazing.So fucking stupid, but AMAZING. Haha cannot wait for you to plow through that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 The exchange itself for anyone interested: JESUS CHRIST! Fucking awesome, LOL I can't wait to blast through 00s Kobashi! Amazing.So fucking stupid, but AMAZING. Haha cannot wait for you to plow through that. 05 right? was this their exchange in the singles match or their exchange in the tag with Shiozaki and Nakajima? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 That's from the Dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheU_2001 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 The exchange itself for anyone interested: JESUS CHRIST! Fucking awesome, LOL I can't wait to blast through 00s Kobashi! Amazing.So fucking stupid, but AMAZING. I actually really like that match. The spot is kinda dumb, but awesome and hilarious at the same time. It was their "who could take the most chops spot" and it is cool. Doesn't make sense, but oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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