Reactions to the List: 100-51

[Childs]

 

I love that Hogan represents the Reagen-era 80s but Ric Flair was the true disciple of Reagan.

 

Hogan represents the wholesome, moralistic, respectable facade of the 80s. Flair represents the sleazy, money hungry, decadent truth.

 

 

The beauty (well, horror) of Hogan is that he represented the truth and the lies of the Reagan era in one outsized package.

[TheU_2001]

Holy crap! I figured I'd be the high vote on Hogan, the whole time. I had him at 7. At least he cracked the top 100.

[El-P]

 

I love that Hogan represents the Reagen-era 80s but Ric Flair was the true disciple of Reagan.

 

Hogan represents the wholesome, moralistic, respectable facade of the 80s. Flair represents the sleazy, money hungry, decadent truth.

 

 

Hogan represents the foreign policy and the jingoism, Flair represents the Yuppie culture.

Hogan is Rocky IV. Flair is Wall Street.

Hogan is Foreigner. Flair is Roxy Music.

[El-P]

The hate on Jericho is downright comical at this point. He was #77 on my list.

[goodhelmet]

There is nothing Roxy Music about Flair.

[Grimmas]

The hate on Jericho is downright comical at this point. He was #77 on my list.

After your Hogan posts that is hilarious.

[PeteF3]

I was going to say I don't really associate Roxy Music with yuppies, though some quick Googling indicates that some people see a connection. I think Phil Collins is a better fit (and don't tell me there isn't just a trace of Patrick Bateman in Flair).

[El-P]

There is nothing Roxy Music about Flair.

 

Avalon.

 

Not talking about the early 70's stuff of course.

[concrete1992]

Why should there be lots of talk about Jericho?

[Grimmas]

Why should there be lots of talk about Jericho?

He was the next guy brought up that people were dreading how high he would go. Also lots of people were whining about taking him off their ballots after Mania (joking, i'm sure, but yeah).

 

I think he's way too high to be honest and doesn't even belong in top 100.

[Grimmas]

I love this, btw

 

I'll briefly comment on Jericho's pro wrestling philosophy with a particular example I'm sure many will remember.

 

In either 2013/2014, maybe it was 2015, I don't know, it doesn't matter, Jericho turned babyface and changed his offence accordingly. This included use of old man Diving Crossbodies and such, and also and addition of a Diving Double Axe Handle. The aforemention move looked bad, got no heat and served no purpose-at first glance. I do believe there was a purpose. Jericho concluded that run by feuding with Randy Orton-and in their match at Summerslam Orton counter the Diving Double Axe Handle into an RKO. It was a terrible counter spot with a poor set-up that everyone saw coming (though angry dad Jericho argued otherwise). I fully believe Jericho had a match against Orton and that counter in mind when he started using that move. A lot of wrestlers do counter spots where they go for moves they usually don't or go for moves they usually use but don't use them in the manner they do when they actually hit them so you can see the counter coming. Jericho's reaction to this was adding a shitty move to his move-set that harmed his matches for months and didn't fulfill its final purpose. It shows a level of thinking about his matches a lot of wrestlers might not have but also his inability to come to effective solutions. He does have a lot of interesting ideas. I'm sure he'd make a great match writer for an E-fed or help out with the Smackdown vs Raw games. But as an actual wrestler he just doesn't cut it for me and the more wrestling you watch the more frustrating a lot of his work becomes.

[El-P]

 

The hate on Jericho is downright comical at this point. He was #77 on my list.

After your Hogan posts that is hilarious.

 

Not really. The idea that Hogan all of sudden is a great worker is a total product of Post-Benoit-Workrate-Guilt. Jericho was considered a really good worker for most of his career, with ups and downs. The "Jericho sucks" stuff just comes from nowhere. And it's not like I'm a big fan.

[Badlittlekitten]

One thing I will give Jericho is his 2008 run where he pieced together his experience, ring work and ability to carry angles and transformed into a great heel character. It was the first time he didn't feel out of place in the main event and from a personal stand point he was the only modern WWE act I've been swept up and invested in (outside the shield).

 

Outside of that though I've never really rated him. Even in his early WWF run he came across as a lame-mo Rock. And the rock was pretty lame.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

A well-deserved spot in the top 75 for Jericho. His good to great work in multiple regions earned him a spot in WCW. While at WCW, Jericho rose above all the shit in that promotion and made a name for himself. Became a legit star in WWE who has dropped off lately, but still knows how to work.

[Grimmas]

 

 

The hate on Jericho is downright comical at this point. He was #77 on my list.

After your Hogan posts that is hilarious.

 

Not really. The idea that Hogan all of sudden is a great worker is a total product of Post-Benoit-Workrate-Guilt. Jericho was considered a really good worker for most of his career, with ups and downs. The "Jericho sucks" stuff just comes from nowhere. And it's not like I'm a big fan.

 

He ranked in 2006, so thinking he's great is not entirely new.

 

I never said Jericho sucks, just that he's maybe a top 200 guy.

[Grimmas]

A well-deserved spot in the top 75 for Jericho. His good to great work in multiple regions earned him a spot in WCW. While at WCW, Jericho rose above all the shit in that promotion and made a name for himself. Became a legit star in WWE who has dropped off lately, but still knows how to work.

Does he? He's taken the best wrestler in the world and made him just decent.

[JKWebb]

 

 

 

 

Hogan was so charismatic in the ring that he redefined what a wrestling star could be.

This isn't the 'Most Influential Wrestler Ever' list though. Elvis Presley redefined what a rock star could be but his albums don't stand up next to Revolver or Blue or Blood On The Tracks or Dark Side Of The Moon.

Wouldn't you include Elvis on a list of 100 Greatest Rock Stars though?

Probably, but such a list would probably be judged on charisma, presence, impact, iconic status etc rather than the merits of their recorded output. I wouldn't include him on a list of Top 100 Music Artists.

Yeah, I see what you are saying... Thought about that too

[El-P]

 

 

 

The hate on Jericho is downright comical at this point. He was #77 on my list.

After your Hogan posts that is hilarious.

 

Not really. The idea that Hogan all of sudden is a great worker is a total product of Post-Benoit-Workrate-Guilt. Jericho was considered a really good worker for most of his career, with ups and downs. The "Jericho sucks" stuff just comes from nowhere. And it's not like I'm a big fan.

 

He ranked in 2006, so thinking he's great is not entirely new.

 

Not entirely new, but equally asinine, especially when he gained almost ten spots.

[Loss]

Sami Zayn didn't have a great match with Styles either, but I'll note how quiet people have been about that.

[El-P]

Isn't Jericho way past his prime anyway now ? If that if held against him, what about Flair past 92 ? (leaves the room quietly)

[concrete1992]

Sami Zayn didn't have a great match with Styles either, but I'll note how quiet people have been about that.

How many times has Zayn had a chance to have a great match with Styles?

[Loss]

Isn't Jericho way past his prime anyway now ? If that if held against him, what about Flair past 92 ? (leaves the room quietly)

 

Answer this question and you're a goner. That goes for everyone.

[Loss]

 

Sami Zayn didn't have a great match with Styles either, but I'll note how quiet people have been about that.

How many times has Zayn had a chance to have a great match with Styles?

 

 

Not as many. But people were panning the first Raw match Jericho and Styles had pretty hard. Not much at all about the first Raw match these two had.

[Grimmas]

Sami Zayn didn't have a great match with Styles either, but I'll note how quiet people have been about that.

are you comparing two ppv matches (one being Wrestlemania) vs a Raw main event in hour 3 of a show with almost no prep time?

 

Yeah Sami has been disappointing on the main roster, it is a point.

 

My response was more to Jericho still knowing how to work comment.

[Loss]

I am comparing first Raw match to first Raw match. The cries of Jericho being awful for not having a great match with Styles began after the first Raw match.