Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[El-P]

Fascinating stuff. More gets uploaded on regular basis. Thanks to BAHU for sharing this.

https://twitter.com/BAHUFMW/status/1579628681328459777

[DMJ]

With all the talk about Bray these days, how could I forget Waylon Mercy being Max Cady from Cape Fear?

[Robert S]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

Fascinating stuff. More gets uploaded on regular basis. Thanks to BAHU for sharing this.

https://twitter.com/BAHUFMW/status/1579628681328459777

That's some great stuff from BAHU. Funny line about HHH:

Quote

For this tour, I traveled with Hunter Hearst Helmsley and shared the room with him. He's a nice looking gentleman, and he's very considerate.

I also had to look up which Austrian town Shinzaki was talking about. That was some weird tour. In Germany, they ran Berlin, Nuremburg, Essen, Mannheim and Frankfurt, all big cities and/or parts of bigger metropolitan regions. In Austria, they chose Wels and Zeltweg. Zeltweg is a small town (7.000 people or so) in a rural area, Wels at least has 60.000 people living there and is not far from Linz (200.000 people). I thought that the CWA may have run Zeltweg from time to time, but at least cagematch has nothing and I probably have confused Zeltweg with Leoben here (another small-ish town in Styria).

[El-P]

He's SO humble and harsh on himself. Gotta love how he praises Bret. Got a kick out of "the show sucked" about Mania 11 and "I thought I was at a Michinoku Pro show" for a terrible gate. WWE in the mid-90's did not sound much fun at all, and even worse for a foreigner barely speaking the language. 

[KawadaSmile]

Him praising Bam Bam vs Lawrence Taylor got a kick out of me. Bret, Owen and Yoko come across as great guys in this, specially in a professional sense. 

[Ricky Jackson]

5 hours ago, El-P said:

Fascinating stuff. More gets uploaded on regular basis. Thanks to BAHU for sharing this.

https://twitter.com/BAHUFMW/status/1579628681328459777

Read that yesterday. Really cool 

[sek69]

3 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Him praising Bam Bam vs Lawrence Taylor got a kick out of me. Bret, Owen and Yoko come across as great guys in this, specially in a professional sense. 

LT did good for someone making their debut in the main event of Wrestlemania, and Bam Bam was a total pro. I can see why a fellow wrestler would give props to them.

[sek69]

In a non-wrestling instance of showing how important it is for your announcer to be the voice of your audience, two trash ass Thursday games in a row got Al Michaels sounding like he wants to leap out of the broadcast booth window.  

He's out here like JR coming up with about a dozen professional ways to say this game sucks ass. 

[NintendoLogic]

On the other hand, he also did his best Michael Cole impression when he called for Snyder to sell the team, a line that had to have been fed to him by someone high up in the NFL food chain.

Of course the league would love for Snyder to just go away on his own and not have to get their hands dirty taking action against him. Snyder vs. the NFL is the biggest heel/heel feud in pro sports today.

[clintthecrippler]

On 10/11/2022 at 7:58 PM, sek69 said:

Not to mention the Road Warriors themselves. 

I will always love that the ripoff wave led to the BLADE RUNNERS Sting and Warrior being another wave of Road Warrior clones more than aping anything from the actual BLADE RUNNER movie.

And if I remember, the origin of OZ was that it was an intentional effort by Jim Herd to integrate Turner/MGM-owned IP into WCW as opposed to being a ripoff/knockoff/"inspired by". That was the same impetus for the "Ric Flair as SPARTACUS" chatter around that time too. 

[DMJ]

This might deserve its own thread, but....

WrestleMania XIII: The Show That Never Was (too dramatic?)


I've been watching the WWE PPVs from November 96' - January 97' and it has me thinking about the direction the WWE was going in before Shawn "lost his smile" and Vince had to re-calibrate WrestleMania XIII.

In December 96', it certainly seems like they're building to Bret vs. Shawn. Shawn dropping the title to Sid and winning it back at the Rumble seems like it was always the plan just based on the storyline and the location of the Rumble being in Shawn's home state. 

Austin was engaged in an on-going feud with Bulldog and while they could've ended that feud at the February In Your House, I'm thinking the real story there was that it was going to be Bret vs. Austin for the title shot (due to the ending of the Rumble) and maybe Bulldog screws Austin. Does this make Bret less a face? It sure does...but re-watching the In Your House: It's Time show, it seems like Bret was already drifting towards heel anyway. His works the match against Sid there as a 90% heel. 

Meanwhile, at the Rumble, Vader beats Undertaker with help from Paul Bearer. Seems to me like a rematch at Mania was in the cards there. 

The Ahmed Johnson/NOD feud isn't disrupted at all by Shawn's departure. The Chicago Street Fight still happens 100% as planned.

But it does leave a handful of guys and titles without a match...for example, if Sid isn't the champion going into Mania, what is his match? Does he face Owen (1/2 half of the Tag Team Champions)? I kinda love the idea of a Sid vs. Mankind match personally just because Foley was so damn good around this time.

So...here's the card for if Shawn doesn't leave and I have the pen...

WWE Championship Match - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels
* I think it'd be extra interesting because the Chicago crowd would've probably cheered Bret even if he was going into the match as a "tweener." Its one of those things where I think the WWE's diehard fanbase had fairly clearly seen Austin as the new top babyface, Bret as the whiny-but-respectable veteran, and Shawn as the pandering pretty boy. So it makes sense they'd cheer Austin over Bret, but no way does Shawn get cheered over the Hitman in Chicago in 97'.

Undertaker vs. Vader

Austin vs. Bulldog

Sid vs. Mankind

Ahmed Johnson & LOD vs. Farooq/Vega/Crush (Chicago Street Fight)

Helmsley vs. Goldust

Owen Hart vs. Rocky Miavia - or - Flash Funk
* I like the idea of either feud just because I think Owen would've made it work. If it's Miavia, I'd have loved to see Owen take umbrage with Rocky's "3rd generation" superstar hype by talking about how the Hart Family are the true greatest wrestling family in history. If its Funk, I think you could still do something fun with Owen claiming he's a better dancer than Flash and then the match itself would've been a nice display of high-flying and speed and whatnot. 

The actual show had a 4-way tag match involving a bunch of B-level teams. I guess that would fill out the card. 
 

[sek69]

Wasn't the (alleged) whole reason Shawn lost his smile was because he didn't want to do the job to Bret at Mania? I remember at the time not having access to THA SHEETZ yet and being baffled that they really were going to run with Sid as champ. 

When you think about it, things probably worked out for the better the way they happened since we got Bret/Austin which was the kickoff point for the Hart Foundation as well as Austin's babyface run. As awesome as a Bret/Shawn match would have been, what we got ended up being far better in the long run.

[Robert S]

Which Mania was it where there were actual plans to do a Starrcade 95-lite series using AJPW wrestlers? XIII, XIV or XV? IIRC, the thing did not go past initial talks because Giant Baba wanted mid-7-figures (considering that Baba was still involved, I guess that rules out Wrestlemania XV).

[El-P]

I remember they were working with several companies back in 97, with Vader, Shamrock & Foley appearing in FMW shows and the New Blackjacks taking part in the RWTL at the end of the year (and the AAA guys at the Rumble of course). I think there was talk back then of Kobashi working WWF. Imagine how WWF would have presented Kobashi in 97, holy shit. Not sure about a Starrcade-like plan though, but I'd say it was probably XIII as they were looking for something, anything to counter-program WCW's rise, by XIV they had the ball rolling with Austin & Tyson already.

[NintendoLogic]

I'm not aware of any plans to bring in All Japan wrestlers to work Mania. I don't know how that would have even worked since Mania took place in the middle of the Champion Carnival. The WWF apparently wanted to bring in Kobashi in 1998 with a serious push, but that never came to fruition because All Japan needed him full-time. There were also discussions to bring in WWF wrestlers to work the 5/98 Dome show, but talks fell apart due to the two sides being far apart on money as well as Baba feeling insulted over Vince sending Gerald Brisco and Bruce Prichard over to negotiate rather than dealing with him directly.

[El-P]

7 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

There were also discussions to bring in WWF wrestlers to work the 5/98 Dome show, but talks fell apart due to the two sides being far apart on money as well as Baba feeling insulted over Vince sending Gerald Brisco and Bruce Prichard over to negotiate rather than dealing with him directly.

Didn't Vader work that Dome show though ? I may mix thing up.

Taker working a MPro show, with Sunny doing the ring announcing and Brother Prichard managing, was one of the most surreal thing ever. Crazy to think how much WWF was working with outside promotions then (including ECW). People raised on the 00's and 10's probably don't understand that at all.

[NintendoLogic]

For sheer surreality, it's hard to beat Shawn Michaels as a special guest referee in FMW.

[strobogo]

The WWF/AJPW deal is weirder to me than MPro or FMW. Attitude Era WWF and late stage King's Road styles, as well as Vince's and Baba's booking philosophies and presentations, could not have been farther apart. 

[Robert S]

3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

For sheer surreality, it's hard to beat Shawn Michaels as a special guest referee in FMW.

It was Fuyuki-era FMW while at the same time WWF was using thumbtacks, barbwire and fire (all thanks to Foley, to be honest). So it is not that weird. BTW: you can say a lot of negative things about Michaels (and all of them true), but he was definitely looking after his students. Danielson and Lance Cade got an FMW tour out of Michaels' guest referee gig.

[The Thread Killer]

3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

There were also discussions to bring in WWF wrestlers to work the 5/98 Dome show, but talks fell apart due to the two sides being far apart on money as well as Baba feeling insulted over Vince sending Gerald Brisco and Bruce Prichard over to negotiate rather than dealing with him directly.

I remember Prichard talking about that on his podcast. He and Briscoe went over and met with Baba at an All Japan show. He pretty much admitted that Baba was insulted that Vince sent his underlings to negotiate for him. So much so, that once the show started Baba (via Joe Higuchi) sent Prichard and Brisco out to sit in the crowd, rather than stay backstage.

Apparently, Baba also told them that WWF guys alone would not be enough to sell out the Dome, because AJPW fans wouldn’t care as much about WWF names as they would native talent. Prichard was incredulous and totally flabbergasted about this assertion of course, but I am not convinced Baba wasn’t right.

IIRC, Baba didn’t even really want to run the Dome anyway. I think it was Meltzer who reported that Baba only did it because he felt pressured by New Japan running the Dome and getting decent attendance there. I think the whole reason he even entertained doing a co-promotion with McMahon was basically to stick it to New Japan. But there was no way Vince was going to be able to co-promote with anybody, especially Baba. The two promotions couldn’t have been more diametrically opposed. All Japan was doing King’s Road and Vince was doing “I choppee your pee-pee.”

3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

For sheer surreality, it's hard to beat Shawn Michaels as a special guest referee in FMW.

I remember JR talking about that, and saying that one of the reasons Vince did it was to punish Michaels for being a massive pain in the ass backstage during that time period. Basically if Michaels wanted to keep getting paid, he’d better strap on his tight little referee shorts and go to Japan. Vince put up with a ton of shit from Michaels especially back then, but I think even he had his limits.

I’d never heard that Michaels did it to help his students.

[Ma Stump Puller]

1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

I remember Prichard talking about that on his podcast. He and Briscoe went over and met with Baba at an All Japan show. He pretty much admitted that Baba was insulted that Vince sent his underlings to negotiate for him. So much so, that once the show started Baba (via Joe Higuchi) sent Prichard and Brisco out to sit in the crowd, rather than stay backstage.

Apparently, Baba also told them that WWF guys alone would not be enough to sell out the Dome, because AJPW fans wouldn’t care as much about WWF names as they would native talent. Prichard was incredulous and totally flabbergasted about this assertion of course, but I am not convinced Baba wasn’t right.

 

For specifics, I think I remember seeing Briscoe and co show up for the Baba Birthday Special show when rewatching all of the stuff from that year (23.01.1998) and being curious why they of all people were there. I guess I know now, lol

 

 

[PeteF3]

One complication from a negotiating standpoint that Dave reported is that Prichard and Brisco went over to Japan right after the Austin-Tyson story broke, so newspapers and magazines that normally wouldn't give the WWF the time of day outside of a token What's Happening Overseas column had footage of the confrontation plastered all over the covers like Austin was the biggest star in the country.

[Timbo Slice]

There’s also the story that at Heat Wave ‘98, Heyman wanted to bring in Kobashi and Misawa for a match, so I wonder how much he knew about Vince talking to Baba and he tried to work his way in there somehow. 

[The Thread Killer]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:35 PM, El-P said:

I lasted about ten minutes in front of Tales from the Territories. I'm sure it's cool for Vice and mainstream audience and all, but I've heard the same kinda stories for about twenty years now, and the production I find unbearable with constant camera moves around a bunch of old dudes sitting around a table and non-stop distracting music. After using and abusing every KC shoot interviews, years of Cornette podcasts and such, there's no added value to me there. Not to mention Jerry Lawler looks like an IRL cursed deviantArt moving pic, and I have no desire to hear this guy talk about anything.

EDIT : gave it another shot. Dutch tells a few good stories (shocking, I know). I would rather listen to extracts from his podcast on Youtube though. Some stories were downright lame (tiger balm rib, really ?). I understand it's a Vice show and not for hardcores, but even then, I don't see how it tells anything that interesting about the Memphis territory (Meltz actually had the most interesting point last week in that basically of all the territories, Memphis really is the one who predates what modern pro-wrestling is, more than any other). Maybe the Kaufman episode will be better with the focus on one topic.

Yeah, the show is just…not good. I don’t like watching roundtable discussions under the best of circumstances and these are definitely not that. I would be interested to see an in-depth documentary about the history of the Memphis territory, but this episode told me nothing.

I skipped the Andy Kaufman episode. That story has been told to death, I don’t need to see another version of it.

I turned on the AWA episode and lasted about two minutes. Between Greg Gagne and Ken Patera, they may have set a new record for combining obnoxiousness and utter bullshit all seated at one table. Greg Gagne is tied with the late Mike Graham (and maybe Black Bart and Manny Fernandez) as the person who has told the most ridiculous, outlandish and provably untrue total bullshit lies and stories in the history of Pro Wrestling. Every time he opens his mouth, nothing but total bullshit comes spewing out. (Actually Hulk Hogan probably belongs in that list too.)

This show is a massive disappointment. Jim Cornette keeps going on about how great it is going to be. He claims that the show will be using previously unseen photographs and video footage directly from his archives, but I don’t know if I am willing to sit through these terrible roundtable discussions just to see that stuff.

[Strummer]

Tristen Nash, son of Kevin Nash, has passed away at age 26.

unbelievably tragic

RIP