WingedEagle Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Okada is having such a ridiculous year that I can only make a case for AJ Styles as a distant number 2 for Most Outstanding this year. And AJ is dragging much lesser talent to compelling and varied TV matches and now carrying a 2 hour show on his back. Not looking to debate Okada/Omega as I understand why those aren't a fan are not fans, but I thought it was an incredible match that felt absolutely flew by despite its length. I still can't wrap my head around the point that Omega made the match as from my seat Okada very much held it together and controlled the narrative even if Omega absolutely left his stamp on the most memorable moments of the match. The Suzuki & TM W matches were also terrific main event title matches in their own right, and most impressively, so different from each other and Okada's other big matches this year. The Suzuki outing did feel a little long, but he's such a unique character who can easily work what they were going for between his act and his offense. Haven't gotten around to commenting on the Shibata match yet but that's easily my MOTY to date, and I'll go further and say that while watching it without spoilers it felt like the best match I've seen since the WK10 main event and a legit all timer. He seems to get an unusual amount of criticism from someone with so many highly touted matches, but I get that the epics aren't for everyone. He's pulled them off in such a fashion that they not only haven't gotten dull but have individually and collectively made a hell of a statement about his diversity as a worker and ability to get over challengers by strongly and persistently putting them over throughout each match before prevailing. Hell, if you go back even a few months further and add in the Ishii, Tanahashi & Marufuji G1 matches its been a remarkable run. Big Naito fan, but I don't see him as near Okada's level. May be my own island there and I can appreciate why others may value his approach more, but its not a contest here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 See, I feel like all of Okada's matches FEEL like they have a lot of downtime even when they don't. There's always a 10 minute chunk where he seems completely uninterested in what he's doing. To me at least. But it's not hard to see why he's getting so much criticism: A guy being touted as being the best in the industry/in decades is going to get a more critical eye than anyone else. I want to be clear I'm not saying Okada isn't great. What I am saying is I don't think he's having as good of a year as he was having at this time last year, let alone the best year in 28 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Fair point, I guess it just comes with the territory. I'd understand it more if he was knocked for being touted as more talented than he is, but it feels like some of the criticism is to say he's outright bad, which is a point I can't see. Perhaps I'm misreading it. Can easily see why some of his matches, particularly this year, may drag a bit for some. Hit that spell briefly in the Suzuki match, but otherwise I've found them all compelling the whole way through. If they're thinking about pushing 40 with Fale then everybody needs to slow down, but I can't imagine anyone is thinking those thoughts. The one thing I think they need to slow down on, and its a minor quibble, is the spot where Okada maintains a wristlock on his opponent and keeps it gripped to build to another Rainmaker. It was one of the biggest spots at WK10 because it hadn't been done before, but I think they've done it in every title match this year. It was a great callback at the Dome, but not sure you want to make it run of the mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 The story they're building to is the Rainmaker is no longer a death move, which is why he doesn't even try to make a pin after the first one anymore. Matches that used to take 15 minutes take him 30 now, so he's working harder and struggling to put opponents away, which will eventually lead to him being stretched beyond his means and dropping the title. Which is a fine story and all, but I don't think his matches this year are as good as last year. Or the year before. And maybe even the year before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I think what they are building towards is he is now after 6 years unable to finish any top guys with the Rainmaker. At the Dome it took like 6 Rainmakers to put down Omega, however Omega never hit the One Wing Angel which he kept going for. And sometime this summer Omega wins the title with the One Wing Angel in a match where Omega kicks out of at least 4 or 5 Rainmakers. So then after having the Rainmaker as a finisher for 5 years and a half years, Okada comes up with some sort of ridiculously dangerous super finisher with which he wins the title back at the Dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Was thinking is Rick Rude the only wrestler to get pinfall victories over Ultimate Warrior and Sting? Don't think Savage ever pinned Warrior and Hogan never technically pinned Sting. Any others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Savage got wins over Warrior during his first title run in 1989 after his heel turn. I don't know if it was specifically pins, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I actually have Okada/Suzuki as the New Japan MOTY by a pretty good margin, but I agree it's not as good as Okada's matches with Tanahashi/Ishii/Marufuji the previous year. In fact, I kind of feel like the New Japan style as a whole has degenerated since Tanahashi was demoted as a tippy top guy in favor of the likes of Omega and Naito. There seems to be more emphasis on big spots for the sake of big spots and going long for the sake of going long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Was thinking is Rick Rude the only wrestler to get pinfall victories over Ultimate Warrior and Sting? Don't think Savage ever pinned Warrior and Hogan never technically pinned Sting. Any others? I think Dr. Death may have pinned each in the UWF as well. Hogan did get a pin on Sting in a Nitro tag match in 1999 (Hulk/Flair vs Sting/Luger), but I'm guessing you just want single's matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 The main event NJPW style is something that I think is hugely flawed. Like NintendoLogic said, they feel like going 45 minutes just for the sake of going 45 minutes. Okada/Omega featured 20 minutes of meaningless matwork that served no purpose to the match, making it very disconnected. The following half was a very good bombfest, but as a whole it wasn't great. Okada/MiSu suffered from a similar problem. Even though Okada really won me over on that particular match with his performance - his knee selling was spotty at times, but he could convey that he was struggling and suffering throughout the match, and it was a nice touch -, 30 minutes of someone sitting on a leglock is not an easy watch at all. Shibata/Okada was the best out of those three (I've yet to watch the match against TMW). It felt better paced, and even the early matwork felt like it had a purpose to be there. It does have a major downside of effectively ending Shibata's career, which again is a problem with the match structure they seem to be going with this year - hard hitting matches shouldn't be going over 20 minutes, let alone 40. I am curious though, as to Okada/Fale. Do they keep that short or are they going over 30 minutes as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Sgt Slaughter won via pinfall against Ultimate Warrior albeit after Randy Savage interfered (Royal Rumble 1991). Hogan pinned Warrior at Halloween Havoc 1998 - obviously amidst many "swerves". Savage got wins over Warrior during his first title run in 1989 after his heel turn. I don't know if it was specifically pins, however. They were all countouts, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Sgt Slaughter won via pinfall against Ultimate Warrior albeit after Randy Savage interfered (Royal Rumble 1991). Hogan pinned Warrior at Halloween Havoc 1998 - obviously amidst many "swerves". Savage got wins over Warrior during his first title run in 1989 after his heel turn. I don't know if it was specifically pins, however. They were all countouts, iirc. Savage also won some cage matches with Warrior in 1991, but those were escape the cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 This might end up warranting a thread of its own (just so everyone can get their digs in) but it was announced that everyone's favorite pipebomber CM Punk would be appearing as a "Pro" on a new MTV spin-off of The Challenge, a reality show where (I believe) former Real World cast members square off against each other to determine the best athlete and, I'm guessing, who can escape the shoot with the least venereal diseases/documented instances of alcohol poisoning? While Punk is competing on the show for charity (a good thing), it is impossible to ignore that this is the same guy who, in his DVD, openly criticized the WWE for pushing The Miz in 2010-2011 as he felt the WrestleMania 27 main event should've been "the best bad guy vs. the best good guy" (himself vs. Cena), more than suggesting his superiority to Miz - and its undeniable that most Miz hate stems from him being a former Real World cast member. Miz actually won a season or two of the original Challenge series, though (I think), so its kind of put up-or-shut up time for Phil Brooks. In summation, CM Punk is "Benjamin Buttoning" The Miz's life and will be enrolling at Parma High School around 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 I have no idea why Punk would open himself up to that again. Exposed in MMA to getting exposed by a Real World cast member. he's almost 40 and at his absolute physical peak wasn't really an athlete. If it comes down to Punk vs Puck, I'm taking Puck every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 I would give a stranger's left testicle to see Punk/Puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 So the mass ESPN layoffs have begun and somehow Coach has survived the bloodletting so far. Maybe WWE pulled some strings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin' Brian Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Maybe he works cheap? And WWE might be one of the things actually showing growth for them, especially online where it looks like they want to put more focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Were there any more Rock N Roll Express rip-offs besides these teams?: - Midnight Rockers - Southern Rockers - Rock and Roll RPM's - New Rockers - US Express(just in name only though) - Ring Crew Express Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Didnt ICW have The New York Rockers? And one could argue that the Rock N Rave Inflection was a modern-day R&R Express clone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Didnt ICW have The New York Rockers? And one could argue that the Rock N Rave Inflection was a modern-day R&R Express clone.Yes, as well as the Rock 'n' Roll Rockers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Dynamic Dudes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 RNR themselves were a knock off of The Fabs, so it's kind of weird to me that the topic is about RNR clones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Were they though? The Fabs were portrayed as manly men (if not unintentionally homoerotic) and the R and R's were teen idol types. The only similarity was them being popular babyface tag teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Bad Company in Stampede, Bruce Hart and Brian Pillman, were more or less an RnRs ripoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I'd say the R n R's were formed as a response to the Fabs' popularity. Not necessarily a rip-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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