Kadaveri Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Our friends from Reddit organised a poll over the last couple of weeks. Can't say I'm a fan of the results, but at least there's some value in seeing how casual smart fans think. It's very Meltzerian, pro-recency (4 of the top 5 are from 2017-18!) and I was most struck by how there's not a single Lucha, Joshi, British or Shoot-Style match anywhere. I thought at least a Manami Toyota match would make it. No Flair vs. Steamboat 2/3 falls either, I thought that match had been canonised but apparently not. Oh and Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens ranking higher than any of the AJPW bouts they're cosplaying is funny. 1) IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada © vs. Kenny Omega - January 4, 20172) IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada © vs. Kenny Omega - June 11, 20173) NXT Championship: Andrade Almas © vs. Johnny Gargano - January 27, 20184) Submission Match: Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - March 23, 19975) WWE Championship: AJ Styles © vs. John Cena - January 29, 20176) NXT Championship: Adrian Neville © vs. Sami Zayn - December 11, 20147) Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - April 5, 20098) TNA X-Division Championship: Christopher Daniels © vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe - September 11, 20059) IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada © vs. Katsuyori Shibata - April 9, 201710) Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - April 3, 200511) G1 Climax Bout: Kenny Omega vs. Tetsuya Naito - August 13, 201612) WWE Championship: John Cena © vs. CM Punk - July 17, 201113) NXT Tag Team Championships 2 Out of 3 Falls: The Revival © vs. DIY - November 19, 201614) G1 Climax Bout: Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega - August 12, 201715) G1 Finals: Kenny Omega vs. Tetsuya Naito - August 13, 201716) WWF Tag Team Championships Tables, Ladders, and Chairs Match: The Dudley Boys © vs. Edge/Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz - April 1, 200117) IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada © vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - January 4, 201618) GHC Heavyweight Championship: Mitsuharu Misawa © vs. Kenta Kobashi - March 1,200319) Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - February 27, 201420) WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Shawn Michaels © vs. Mankind - September 22, 199621) NWA United States Championship I Quit Steel Cage Match: Tully Blanchard © vs. Magnum TA - November 28, 198522) WWF Intercontinental Championship: Randy Savage © vs. Ricky Steamboat - March 29, 198723) World Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle © vs. The Undertaker - February 19, 200624) WWF Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match: Chris Benoit © vs. Chris Jericho - January 21, 200125) The Hart Foundation vs. The Legion of Doom/Goldust/Ken Shamrock/Steve Austin - July 6, 199726) Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn - July 24, 201627) Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - April 1, 201628) WWE Heavyweight Championship Iron Man Match: Kurt Angle © vs. Brock Lesnar - September 18, 200329) PWG World Championship: Chris Hero © vs. Bryan Danielson - September 4, 200930) Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship: Mitsuharu Misawa © vs. Toshiaki Kawada - June 3, 199431) NWA World Heavyweight Championship: Ric Flair © vs. Ricky Steamboat - February 20, 198932) WWE United Kingdom Championship: Tyler Bate © vs. Pete Dunne - May 20, 201733) WWF World Tag Team Championships: The Two Man Power Trip © vs. Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho - May 21, 200134) Smackdown Tag Team Championships Hell In A Cell Match: The New Day © vs. The Usos - October 8, 201735) IWGP Intercontinental Championship: Shinsuke Nakamura © vs. Kota Ibushi - January 4, 201536) Three Stages of Hell Match: Steve Austin vs. Triple H - February 25, 200137) IWGP Intercontinental Championship: Tetsuya Naito © vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - June 11, 201738) IWGP Intercontinental Championship: Shinsuke Nakamura © vs. AJ Styles - January 4, 201639) World Heavyweight Championship: Triple H © vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - March 14, 200440) Losing Team Must Disband Cage Match: America's Most Wanted vs. Triple X - December 5, 200441. AJPW World Tag Team Championships: Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue/Toshiaki Kawada - June 9, 199542) NXT Women's Championship: Sasha Banks © vs. Becky Lynch - May 20, 201543) NXT Tag Team Championships: The Authors Of Pain © vs. DIY vs. The Revival - April 1, 201744) IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada © vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - October 14, 201345) AJPW All Asia Tag Team Championships: Dan Kroffat/Doug Furnas © vs. Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - May 25, 199246) Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - March 30, 200347) IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Hiroshi Tanahashi © vs. Kazuchika Okada - April 7, 201348) NXT Championship: Adrian Neville © vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd - September 11, 201449) Streak vs. Career: Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - March 28, 201050) No Disqualification: Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk - August 18, 201351) PWG World Tag Team Championships Ladder Match: The Super Smash Brothers © vs. Future Shock vs. The Young Bucks - July 21, 201252) ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson © vs. KENTA - September 16, 200653) WWE Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle © vs. Chris Benoit - January 19, 200354) WarGames Match: Sanity vs. The Authors Of Pain/Roderick Strong vs. The Undisputed Era - November 18, 201755) NXT Women's Championship: Sasha Banks © vs. Bayley - August 22, 201556) Loser Leaves Town Street Fight Tuxedo Coal Miner's Glove Match: Jim Duggan vs. Ted DiBiase - March 22, 198557) Ultimate Submission Match: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - April 29, 200158) G1 Climax Bout: AJ Styles vs. Minoru Suzuki - August 1, 201459) Vacant WWF Junior Heavyweight Championship: Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask - April 21, 198360) NWA World Heavyweight Championship: Ric Flair © vs. Sting - March 27, 198861) NXT Tag Team Championships: The Revival © vs. DIY - August 20, 201662) CM Punk vs. The Undertaker - April 7, 201363) NXT Women's Championship: Asuka © vs. Ember Moon - August 19, 201764) WCW Cruiserweight Championship vs. Mask Match: Eddie Guerrero © vs. Rey Mysterio - October 26, 199765) WWE Intercontinental Championship vs. Career Match: The Miz © vs. Dolph Ziggler - October 9, 201666) NXT Women's Championship Ironwoman Match: Bayley © vs. Sasha Banks - October 7, 201567) Cage Of Death Match: Team CZW vs. Team ROH - July 15, 200668) WWF Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match: Razor Ramon © vs. Shawn Michaels - March 20, 199469) Triple Crown Heavweight Championship: Mitsuharu Misawa © vs. Toshiaki Kawada - January 22, 199970) IWGP United States Heavyweight Championship No Disqualification Bout: Kenny Omega © vs. Chris Jericho - January 4, 201871) PWG World Championship Ladder Match: Kevin Steen © vs. El Generico - October 22, 201172) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - June 8, 199073) G1 Climax Bout: Kota Ibushi vs. Tetsuya Naito - July 17, 201774) Ted Petty Invitational Quarterfinals: Claudio Castagnoli vs. Mike Quackenbush - September 30, 200675) WWE United States Championship: John Cena © vs. Cesaro - July 6, 201576) The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - February 23, 201477) WWF Intercontinental Championship: Mr. Perfect © vs. Bret Hart - August 26, 199178) Necro Butcher vs. Samoa Joe - June 11,200579) IWGP Tag Team Championships: Hiroshi Hase/Kensuke Sasaki © vs. The Steiner Brothers - March 21, 199180) NWA World Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage Match: Harley Race © vs. Ric Flair - November 24, 198381) WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior - April 1, 199082) Dragon Kid/Genki Horiguchi/Ryo Saito vs. CIMA/Masato Yoshino/Naruki Doi -83) PWG World Tag Team Championships: The Young Bucks © vs. The World's Cutest Tag Team - July 26, 201484) John Cena vs. Kevin Owens - May 31, 201585) Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship: Mitsuharu Misawa © vs. Toshiaki Kawada - May 1, 199886) Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi/Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue/Jumbo Tsuruta/Masanobu Fuchi - October 19, 199087) Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit - October 4, 199988) Hollywood Hogan vs. The Rock - March 17, 200289) Masato Tanaka vs. Mike Awesome - June 12, 200590) World Heavyweight Championship: Edge © vs. The Undertaker - March 30, 200891) IWGP United States Heavyweight Championship: Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii - July 2, 201792) Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - March 20, 199493) WCW World Heavyweight Championship: Goldberg © vs. Diamond Dallas Page - October 25, 199894) Steel Cage Match: Brodie Lee vs. Claudio Castagnoli - September 7, 200895) ROH World Championship Ladder War: Kevin Steen © vs. El Generico - December 16, 201296) Loser Leaves Town: Chris Hero vs. Eddie Kingston - April 4, 200797) #1 Contendership Guerilla Warfare Match: Drake Younger vs. Sami Callihan - March 22, 201398) WWE World Heavyweight Championship: Brock Lesnar © vs. John Cena vs. Seth Rollins - January 25, 201599) Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin - May 2, 2005100) Bobby Fish vs. Bryan Danielson - July 23, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Interesting that Magnum-Tully is the first old school match that pops up. I like checking in on Wreddit to see what the current smarks are thinking so I can stay on top of industry trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Sometimes when I leave this place it feels like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Also, interesting that the NXT War Games appears on the list, but not any of the original ones. Is the population on Reddit younger? That might explain some of the recency bias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 The list of highest-rated matches at Cagematch is pretty similar. https://www.cagematch.net/?id=111&view=list&sortby=colRating&sorttype=DESC The main difference is that the latter list has a lot more Kobashi and Danielson. And the only 80s matches represented are the Flair/Steamboat trilogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Also, interesting that the NXT War Games appears on the list, but not any of the original ones. Is the population on Reddit younger? That might explain some of the recency bias? Absolutely. I come here for talking with peole who have similar knowledge to me, I go to reddit to see what the modern version of 16 year old Sean is thinking, they can shape how the industry develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 It's very Meltzerian, pro-recency (4 of the top 5 are from 2017-18!) and I was most struck by how there's not a single Lucha, Joshi, British or Shoot-Style match anywhere.You said it yourself -- "it's very Meltzerian." They treat his opinion as the gospel truth -- if he says a Kenny Omega match is the greatest match of all time, then it is and there's no debating it. I only visit that place for wrestling gifs, random wrestler tweets as I don't follow any on twitter and random cards and news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Let's not turn this into a "the dread Meltzer has brainwashed the masses into liking the wrong kind of wrestling" thread, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Going through it, I think about a quarter of those matches would make an all-time list for me. There's still a ton of stuff I need to see, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 The list is going to be interesting as it is what the "casual/hardcore" audience likes in wrestling. Sure, it is "Meltzerian" but most fans of this group have been leaning "Meltzerian" for the past decade when footage wasn't a big issue and finding a starting point of great wrestling from outside WWE was as easy as looking at Dave's ***** matches. It isn't brainwashing, it is a product of wrestling being easier to approach than ever. The "hardcore/hardcore" is going to be found on http://gweproject.freeforums.net/ but that is clearly going to be overall a much smaller audience. The most interesting thing to me is it features SIX Benoit matches. Who is doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Let's not turn this into a "the dread Meltzer has brainwashed the masses into liking the wrong kind of wrestling" thread, thanks. Simply stating that his opinion is worshiped by them is turning the thread into that? Okay... Also wrong kind of wrestling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Only thing that interested me about the list was how many "old school" matches made it. Almost marked out when I saw Tully vs Magmun being the highest rated one. On the other hand, the main thing that interests me about the GME project is how many "new" matches make the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yeah the Tully/Magnum one being the highest 80s one is interesting to me. I don't know how many votes were cast, it might have been like two people that got it up there, but you would have expected Flair/Steamboat or Steamboat/Savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 The list is going to be interesting as it is what the "casual/hardcore" audience likes in wrestling. Sure, it is "Meltzerian" but most fans of this group have been leaning "Meltzerian" for the past decade when footage wasn't a big issue and finding a starting point of great wrestling from outside WWE was as easy as looking at Dave's ***** matches. It isn't brainwashing, it is a product of wrestling being easier to approach than ever. The "hardcore/hardcore" is going to be found on http://gweproject.freeforums.net/ but that is clearly going to be overall a much smaller audience. The most interesting thing to me is it features SIX Benoit matches. Who is doing this? After discussing on Twitter I have confirmed the list really isn't Meltzer like. Granted I don't know the formula that spits out this list cause it is indeed out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Who the fuck cares ? I mean, really. Reddit ? I thought reddit was only good to get the leaking sex videos. Well, apparently it is. (yeah, that's a running gag of sorts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Sasha vs Becky being the highest rated WWE women's match surprises me especially since the Brooklyn Sasha vs Bayley match is typically given the most attention from that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Okay, Danielson/Fish at 100 is such a funny pick it feels like something a poster on this site would do as an inside joke. I assume after the Top 50 canonized picks were getting pretty sparse. EDIT: Okay, Jim Duggan match in the Top 100? This list isn't half bad. I'd be shocked if the GWE forums produces a better one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrike02 Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 EDIT: Okay, Jim Duggan match in the Top 100? This list isn't half bad. I'd be shocked if the GWE forums produces a better one. Are you on the GWE forums? I'm curious why your expectations are so low. Or, I'm being trolled into a reply. I suppose that's possible too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Who the fuck cares ? I mean, really. Reddit ? I thought reddit was only good to get the leaking sex videos. Well, apparently it is. (yeah, that's a running gag of sorts). Hey man, maybe you should log off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 I actually was expecting the absence of any lucha in this type of list, but no joshi is weird. No love for Han and Tamura is also quite sad. But I can't say it's a surprising list. Wreddit has their own particular taste an demographich, PWO has theirs. Particularly, I'm in the middle of those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 I just read this off that subreddit: "Onita in AJPW before he fucked up his knee was great. FMW Onita is all smoke, mirrors, and theater." So, yeah, it's a weird place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 I'd probably have around 20 of those matches in my top 100... What surprises me is the lack of Kobashi and Danielson. I would have expected a list with that much Omega, Okada, and HBK to also have a fair amount of Kobashi and Danielson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawren Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 I'd probably have around 20 of those matches in my top 100... What surprises me is the lack of Kobashi and Danielson. I would have expected a list with that much Omega, Okada, and HBK to also have a fair amount of Kobashi and Danielson... Yeah it's a weird list. It's interesting to pick through. I'm surprised some of the 'classic indy' matches aren't on there - Punk's major WWE matches vs Cena, Lesnar, Taker are on but not Punk vs Joe from 2004? And there's no way on a poll of that size, that the majory of people on R/SC have seen 29) PWG World Championship: Chris Hero © vs. Bryan Danielson - September 4, 2009 - there's just no way. Especially with how many modern WWE and NJPW matches are in the top 50. So it's interesting to see what matches are highly regarded as classics and get votes just because of that aura and I'm really surprised Hero/Danielson from 2009 PWG is there. It's really good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 I just read this off that subreddit: "Onita in AJPW before he fucked up his knee was great. FMW Onita is all smoke, mirrors, and theater." So, yeah, it's a weird place. Where did this person get that talking point? Where are the lists of pimped 70s Onita? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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