Wrestlemania 35: The KawadaSmile tribute thread

[Jmare007]

43 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Just imagine if Shawn's shoulders were up when Austin beat him at Mania to set up a rematch with someone with no set return date. Which come to think about it, is amazing that it didn't happen that way considering Shawn's views on losing cleanly. 

Ronda didn't have a Taker that would "tape his fists" to avoid any type of fuckery

[SPS]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

The story of "she never had to deal with pins in Judo or MMA so she could get caught in a flash pin situation in wrestling" works better, that is until what happened.  Whatever the real details are, when it happened my first thought was Becky just got Sting'd by Ronda's Hulk Hogan. 

Except there are pins in Judo, Osaekomi . 

"ARTICLE 24 - Osaekomi-waza The Referee shall announce Osaekomi when in his opinion the applied technique corresponds with the following criteria:

a) The contestant being held must be controlled by his opponent and must have his back, both shoulders and one shoulder in contact with the Tatami."

15-19 seconds hold down for a win.

[El-P]

Wow, so glad I went to bed when I did, I would not have handle the rest of that card well... That Trip vs Batista match was the drizzling shit.

And then, Angle got the worst send-off imaginable. Fucking Baron Corbin ? And he does the job to that useless Pascal Obispo look-alike ? Angle deserved so much better.

I gotta say though, Lashley & Balor deserves some credit because they worked a good little match that instilled some life back into that dead crowd. That being said, Demon Balor looks like a goofy white motherfucker with dreadlocks. You wanna give him a djembe and a stackline.

Alexa Bliss looks about a thousand times better in that Sheamus workout video with no makeup on, just sayin'

YEAH ! I can fast forward through shit now, so no Carmella & R-Truth wasting more time.

The main event delivered for a three-way, which is not conducive for greatness. I'd bring it down to this : Ronda had the coolest spots and moments (and that scary bump); Becky was the most over, but Charlotte clearly was the best worker of the three. That finish came out of nowhere, which is okay and totally Bret-Hart-ish (as was Charlotte Figue Four on the post BTW), so I'm fine with that, but the ref totally screwed up by counting one when Ronda's shoulders were nowhere close to the mat. Those refs should spend less time doing radioactive tanning sessions and work on their craft. I do think the out-of-nowhere nature of the pin did hurt Becky's moment, then again the whole three-way was not the way to go for a true epic match and coronation. Also the crowd was probably totally spent.

Overall, a rather weak Mania, totally dying after the awesome Kofi win (thanks to a genius performance from Bryan) and not much before that. That Trip match was brutal, the Angle retirement was a disgrace. Mania needs to be four hours at worst.

Enjoyed shooting the shit with you people tremendously, once more that thread made Mania a whole lot more fun that it actually was. So there, thanks for that.

[Herodes]

I gave up some time during the painfully heatless match between Roman and the incredibly dull Drew. This is the most modern wrestling I’ve watched in years and honestly it was pretty shit, best match was Miz/Shane followed by Bryan/Kofi, the rest was a bunch of geeks, no larger than life superstars. Plus racist old uncle Terry. I have no desire to watch the rest, I watch an hour of the network a week at best, there’s more than enough 87 prime time, 84 mid south, 92 wcw saturday night, Crockett and hidden gems to never have to watch blackface balor 

[ZThomas]

I knew Bryan vs was something that has to be seen live as it happens. It couldve ended the show and probably gotten the same reaction. I gotta go back and watch some of the other matches cause I was dosing off. AJ vs Orton seemed really good. I missed Lashley vs Balor heard it was one of the best matches on the show.

[DMJ]

Just finished watching the show last night. It usually takes me 5-6 sittings, but this one was really on 3-4. A few thoughts...

- Overall, I thought this was one of the better death marches the WWE has ever had. The right guys won mostly (though I personally was pulling for Brock). When people argue about "listening to the fans/not listening to the fans," its not always so clear cut. Many of us dislike Rollins, but you're kidding yourself if you think he's not over with a large portion of the crowd. Is he over enough to be a top guy? I don't think he would be in any other era. In this era, though? He's in the top 5 babyfaces. And with so many titles and so many PPVs, if you're in that position (and you're the type the WWE wants to push), you beat Brock Lesnar.

- There was a ton of filler, but surprisingly, I found that even the filler matches were good. In other contexts, I think they would've been better regarded. AJ/Orton was solid and I don't believe people saying AJ has lost a step. He looked smooth as ever out there but there were no stakes and the crowd was coming down from Seth/Brock. The tag match was fun (and considering how much The Bar was used this week, its no surprise that they were given so much of the spotlight). Balor/Lashley was a really good sprint that was so clearly hamstringed by time - move-for-move, I was impressed by Lashley's offense and I actually liked Balor working like Sonic the Hedgehog. They had chemistry. Give them more time to actually sell things, cut the Demon out, and put this match on a "B-show" and its a Match of the Night contender. Joe/Mysterio going under 2 minutes wasn't a shocker after Kofi and the right guy won with the finish (Rey has survived countless losses like this, while the opposite wouldn't have been true, plus Rey wasn't 100%). 

- Just as everyone predicted, Reigns/McIntyre was an unnecessary misfire. McIntyre was actually the star here - this might have even been his best performance since joining the main roster (it helps not having Dolph around). Unfortunately, for how impressive his offense was, the crowd was indifferent because this was a thrown-together match late in the show. I've always thought Reigns' bumping and selling was his strength and it was on full display here - unfortunately, his detractors hate this aspect of him (and maybe rightfully so) because his Superman Punch is eerily similar to the Hulk Ups and SuperCena stuff of the past. Basically, Reigns gets his butt kicked for 10 minutes, makes a comeback, and wins clean. So, even with some good ingredients, the resulting product did nothing for anyone. Reigns' win didn't really help him because it was a "same old shit" performance in front of a cold crowd and McIntyre, despite looking great, eats yet another loss while the commentators try to talk about him being "on a roll." A double DQ or CO might've been the way to do this. Or, y'know, just don't put this match on the show, period.

- Bryan is great, obvi. But i just wanted to add, do you know what I didn't hear during the match? I didn't hear anyone saying "Fight Forever" or "Both These Guys" or even "This is Awesome." Its crazy! The crowd was invested in who was going to win or lose and that is so rare. Compare the reactions for this match to anything on the NXT show or really any other WWE show and you're crazy if this isn't on your MOTY list in December.

- The flash pin the main event was a slight disappointment after an otherwise really, really good match. Considering the amount of pressure on the performers, I tip my hat to them. I liked this more than Bryan/Orton/Batista, which I thought got really convoluted and overdramatic when Bryan got on the gurney. This match was simpler - just a straight up fight with some cool spots and (surprisingly) not much overselling and "sleeping on the floor outside" stretches that tend to plague triple threat matches. Not everything was executed flawlessly, but like in the Bryan/Kofi match, the small warts made it feel like more of a struggle than an overly choreographed dance routine (again, I really liked the NXT show, but those matches tend to suffer from this). 

- If you had cut 2-3 matches from the main show, this could've been an all-time great Mania. I didn't watch a second of the Pre-Show, by the way, and never will. Those entire hours should be cut, period. Make the main show the 3.5-4 hours. Give us 1-2 matches in the Pre-Show. You could shrink this whole thing to 4.5-5 hours (which would still be long, but hey, nobody is forcing anybody to watch the Pre-Show) and it would be way more bearable. But with the Pre-show we're talking 7 hours, right? Yeah, that's at least 2 hours too long and good matches were fought in front of cold crowds because of it.

[flyonthewall2983]

I think there's a way to keep everyone happy RE: length, if they start the show earlier in the day. Start it anywhere between 12-2 ET and while it'll still be a long haul, it means everyone (stateside at least) can finish the show in real time. Or bump it up to Saturday.

[DMJ]

I don't think I agree. I don't think the issue is when the show starts. I'm in Cleveland, so I could easily watch it from 6 to 12:30 and still get up for work the next day. My feeling is that, as a fan, I would enjoy the shows more if they weren't 6-and-half hours and I think, ultimately, overexposure and giving away too much and having so much filler is part of what has watered down and hurt their TV and house show business. Instead, like many fans, I watch these shows in pieces and parts over a half-dozen sittings and the idea of any of this being "event viewing" is laughable. 

It used to be that every Monday Night was "event viewing," that if you missed it, you were kind of stuck never seeing it or hoping a buddy had taped it. Technology changed that...but the WWE has also actively made it so that even WrestleMania isn't "event viewing" anymore. 

 

EDIT - Whoops! In my original post, I also forgot to note in my lengthy post above how the worst part of the Batista/HHH match, which I thought was actually kinda fun at first, then slow, then good again by the end, was Shawn Michaels on commentary. You know how some all-time great players don't make great coaches? And some coaches started out as just average or below-average players? Shawn Michaels was once an entertaining, energetic promo, but boy, he was AWFUL on commentary. I liked how they had guest commentators all over the show, but he was easily the worst (and its not like Paige had a stellar night herself).

[FMKK]

You're a Cleveland guy and you forgot to review a legendary performance from The Miz?! The disrespect 

[DMJ]

Haha! Never!

I liked the Shane/Miz match plenty. The right guy didn't win there...but it was a clever enough way around that as, clearly, Miz beat Shane's ass up and down the arena and then "lost" because Shane landed on him when they were both out cold. It worked for me. The inclusion of Miz's dad was the right level of hokey. I liked that, from what I recall, Shane didn't attempt any of that MMA-inspired submission crap (which I was worried he would after that ultra-dumb submission he put on Miz's dad at Fastlane). Wisely, they kept it as just a brawl with spots that did seem to escalate in violence without becoming so ridiculously staged/convoluted that it took me out of the action (like, say, one of my least favorite matches ever - Shane vs. Taker from a few Manias ago). Also, god bless whatever agent or producer (or Shane himself) for Shane actually being a heel and not having a moment with his wife and kids on camera.*

 

* If he did, I missed it.

[TheDuke]

My thought is that instead of having Wrestlemania be so long. have maybe 5 matches on the show, and all the other matches, push to Raw and Smackdown. Have special "Wrestlemania" edition episodes of Raw and Smackdown, and thats were they can put the Battle Royals and Tag Team Championship and IC/US/Cruiserweight matches, and treat them like they are special episodes, like season finales or something.

[SomethingSavage]

If they're so hell-bent on keeping Mania loaded with 12 to 15 matches & everyone participating, then yeah. I'd prefer it to become an All Star Weekend type deal. Split it into two separate shows on back-to-back nights. Both shows will draw, because we've already seen that people are in town for most of the week & willing to attend EVERYTHING.

Sure, some folks may be forced to choose one event OR the other. But they could always just be sure to balance the two cards enough so that there's a chance or something significant enough happening on both nights. The FOMO will put most of the people there for both nights.

[sek69]

Thinking back, if everything else was exactly the same, the show would have been so much better without the HHH-Dave match. You guys know how much I like me some BIG DAVE, but that was the most Hunter-est Hunter match in years.  It's almost a work of art how it brings the show to a screeching halt. 

[C.S.]

Just now, sek69 said:

Thinking back, if everything else was exactly the same, the show would have been so much better without the HHH-Dave match. You guys know how much I like me some BIG DAVE, but that was the most Hunter-est Hunter match in years.  It's almost a work of art how it brings the show to a screeching halt. 

The thing is, it would've been perfectly acceptable in half the time. But Hunter had to Hunter and go for another overlong "epic." Never the right strategy against bigger opponents like Big Dave.

Even though Rey-Joe being cut for time was reportedly not because of the injury, I'm not sure I buy that. I wonder if Hunter extended his match to make up for that deficit? 

[peachchaos]

Shaving some time would have helped some, but the whole thing was a mess starting with Batista tripping on the ropes and then Triple H's entrance with the outdated graphics. When they busted out the tool box it became some next level Wrestlecrap. 

[SmartMark15]

12 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Even though Rey-Joe being cut for time was reportedly not because of the injury, I'm not sure I buy that. I wonder if Hunter extended his match to make up for that deficit? 

Seeing the card on paper, I always figured Rey-Joe would go short. It's very like Rey to have extremely short Mania matches and I thought they'd pull a JBL-Rey situation here. I was right except for the outcome.

[El-P]

6 hours ago, C.S. said:

Even though Rey-Joe being cut for time was reportedly not because of the injury, I'm not sure I buy that. I wonder if Hunter extended his match to make up for that deficit? 

Yeah, because he knows people were gonna be excited with his 49 year olf roided ass going 30 minutes doing garbage spots at a snail pace, that would make up for Rey vs Joe getting 10 seconds.  He knows what the audience want, that guy, after all, he's the God of NXT and all.

You know what strikes me now ? Stephy wasn't to be seen anywhere, and no one mentionned it. Hey, better that way, but still, it was kinda surprising.

[FMKK]

23 minutes ago, El-P said:

Yeah, because he knows people were gonna be excited with his 49 year olf roided ass going 30 minutes doing garbage spots at a snail pace, that would make up for Rey vs Joe getting 10 seconds.  He knows what the audience want, that guy, after all, he's the God of NXT and all.

You know what strikes me now ? Stephy wasn't to be seen anywhere, and no one mentionned it. Hey, better that way, but still, it was kinda surprising.

She managed to carry her husband to his most entertaining match in years last year so maybe a Stephanie appearance might have livened things up...

[SomethingSavage]

Ehh. Steph was the MVP of that awful Seth/Hunter "grudge match." And she was pretty aces with her involvement in the Bryan/HHH match also.

[El-P]

50 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

Ehh. Steph was the MVP of that awful Seth/Hunter "grudge match." And she was pretty aces with her involvement in the Bryan/HHH match also.

Agreed. Bitch Heel Sex Goddess Steph doing Sherry tribute spots is by far her best role.

When I said it was better that way (without her), I was thinking about the main event. Mother Hen Steph is annoying as hell.

[DMJ]

Whatever match that followed Kofi/Bryan was going to be the yearly sub-2 minute squash match. Joe/Mysterio wouldn't have been my pick, it was the "path of least resistance" (kinda like the Bludgeon Brothers match last year, where they won the titles real quickly but nobody remembers/cares/shit on it). 

I don't think the crowd would've complained about Corbin/Angle being the squash with Angle maybe getting a surprise assist from Cena or Jason Jordan or, in a real throwback, his brother Eric. I get that Angle had to do the honors or whatever but who cares? I'm not even the biggest Corbin hater, but he's got no cred, he's been treated like a comedy character, and this match was all about Angle getting a send-off from the crowd. I don't think the Kofi win would've prevented that from happening.

Personally, I think you could've also had Reigns embarrass Drew in that slot and it would've given some heat to that feud and the crowd would've popped at the shock of it if it was done in a real flash pin style. Online and portions of the live crowd would've called it a "burial" and booed, but I dunno, you put McIntyre over at the next PPV and you've got a feud going. I'm not sure why I should care about this rivalry now that we've seen Reigns win in a straight-up, back-and-forth match. Plus, the Mania match, despite being solid IMO, didn't get any reaction as it was.

 

[Robert S]

I watched the show in 5 sitting which was a huge improvement to the powering through until 7 AM of last year. Except the flat last hour (two nothing matches and a three way (which is already an uphill battle for any wrestler) in front of a completely spent crowd) this was a pretty unjoyable show with Daniel Bryan beeing the MVP. As good as he might be in other roles (undersized heel or underdog babyface), dominating heel is where he is best, sadly in the land of the giants, he is seldom in that position. In a perfect world, he would have a two year run on top, feuding against small guys, only.

[sek69]

Another point to consider, without Hunter's match (assuming everything else goes about the same length) the show ends at about midnight and there's no post-show transit issues snarling everyone's attempt to get home.

[SomethingSavage]

Say what you will about the dreadful length of the show - and it was a chore, but that whole Kofi/Bryan deal was magic.

I think it's safe to say Triple H's grand entrance game has now jumped the shark. That shit looked terrible & hokey as hell. He's had some cool ones, but this wasn't any of that. What's worse was Cole exclaiming, "HOW COOL WAS THAT?!" like he was being held at gunpoint.

I freaking loved the Finn/Lashley match. The big man/little man dynamic is pretty much Bobby's specialty, and this was like an abbreviated version of the awesome Jeff Hardy/Austin Aries matches he was having in TNA. Really dug it.

The Demon stuff felt really lame and underwhelming though. It seemed to be totally drained of any cool factor in such a large setting. Maybe it's just one of those things that can work in a tight, intimate environment & not so much in the big venues.

But yeah. Finn slinking around the floor and dry humping the air like Rated R Edge was bizarre. And the headband with ribbons & confetti stapled to it looked cheap as fuck.

[C.S.]

You're almost making me want to revisit Finn-Lashley...almost.

It was ice cold for me, because:

1. Finn, and especially The Demon, do very little for me.

2. Lashley has been a colossal disappointment and flop. Another guy who supposedly did something in TNA but showed nothing upon returning to WWE (which has been every TNA guy so far, with AJ and Drew being the only exceptions). Lashley was terrible in WWE before and is terrible now. I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks Lio Rush is the real star of that act (because I doubt even anyone in WWE feels that way).

3. I was exhausted and beyond the point of giving a fuck. The women woke me up and I enjoyed that match, but I'm sure I would've enjoyed it 10x more if it wasn't past midnight.