Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

Maybe Vince saw the ratings from Monday's RAW and decided Triple H's booking ain't shit.

You mean good matches that do fuck all to advance storylines to the point where weekly episods are totally interchangeable is NOT good television?

[sek69]

8 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

But from a legal standpoint, when he retired, did he relinquish any kind of power? I assume he would have to be voted in back by the Board of Directors, first and foremost, right?

IIRC he stepped down from all positions of power (HHH took over creative, Nick/Steph running the business side) and Vince is just the primary shareholder. He gets the money but the only say he has is if the company is up for sale he has veto power. 

Plus SRS reported no one in the company is clamoring for him to be back either, as him leaving was such a morale boost it changed the trajectory of the battle with AEW. 

[DMJ]

I haven't watched RAW in years so I can't say much about whether I'd enjoy the TV more pre-Vince's ousting or post...

But Vince's retirement and Triple H's ascension has been (as sek noted above) pretty much universally praised and seen as a positive - backstage, by the "IWC," by most every major critic/commentator via podcasts and what-have-you. 

And considering Vince couldn't stop the bleeding of ratings for the past decade, Monday's record-low rating (1.47m and a dismal 18-49 rating of 0.37) shouldn't be all that big of a shocker. The WWE's year-to-year ratings have been dropping for a long time and, if I'm not mistaken, in a predictable pattern. I'm not going to go back and crunch the numbers, but I vaguely recall that there was a 10% drop year-to-year before the pandemic for a series of years. (Someone feel free to fact check that.)

There was a time when people - myself included - felt like the sky was falling when the WWE started getting ratings below 3m. Then it was, "Oh my god, they're below 2.5 million." Now they're lucky to crack 1.8m. But, year after year, its record profits and when its time to do deals for the TV rights, they're still seen as super valuable by major networks. 

Vince wanting to come back is 100% an ego move and has nothing to do with what's "best for business" because, to his credit, Vince made the WWE practically too big to fail.  

[KawadaSmile]

Lucky to crack 1.8million? Only on Mondays! SD, also known as Roman Territory, is going strong.

[Johnny Sorrow]

1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said:

Lucky to crack 1.8million? Only on Mondays! SD, also known as Roman Territory, is going strong.

I think crazy old Vince saying he wants to come back is because he's so out  of touch he still thinks RAW is the main show and that USA is still a relevant station.

[sek69]

Retiring was the ultimate admission of defeat and you know that's something that is going to stick in Vince's craw until his last breath. 

[C.S.]

10 hours ago, El-P said:

John Wisniski, who wrestled as Greg Valentine...

TIL: His real name isn't Greg Valentine.

[MLB]

Pro Wrestling/WWE is *dead* on the west coast. We're back to the 90's where it is the east coast keeping the industry alive (Chicago, Philly, Boston, NY/NJ). I live in Oregon and *nobody* likes rasslin here AT ALL. WWE cancelled a show in Eugene a few months ago where they couldn't even sell 2,000 tickets in a 12,000 seat building. LA has a bit of a scene (GCW/PWG/XPW/GLOW and some lucha crossover), but that's it.

[JRH]

54 minutes ago, C.S. said:

TIL: His real name isn't Greg Valentine.

He also shares his real first name with his dad.

[pmo]

26 minutes ago, JRH said:

He also shares his real first name with his dad.

He was also a Fargo at one point....

[NintendoLogic]

The Hammer's full legal name is Jonathan Anthony Wisniski according to Wikipedia. He probably goes by Jon in real life, but he obviously couldn't wrestle as Jon Valentine. I have no idea how he settled on Greg as a ring name, though.

5 hours ago, MLB said:

Pro Wrestling/WWE is *dead* on the west coast. We're back to the 90's where it is the east coast keeping the industry alive (Chicago, Philly, Boston, NY/NJ). I live in Oregon and *nobody* likes rasslin here AT ALL. WWE cancelled a show in Eugene a few months ago where they couldn't even sell 2,000 tickets in a 12,000 seat building. LA has a bit of a scene (GCW/PWG/XPW/GLOW and some lucha crossover), but that's it.

Doesn't Seattle have a pretty strong scene? The last Smackdown taping there drew well and had a hot crowd, and AEW's debut in the area should also do well since it'll likely be headlined by Danielson/MJF along with Darby and Swerve in prominent roles. Also, Defy is one of the top indies in the country.

[Blehschmidt]

11 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

You mean good matches that do fuck all to advance storylines to the point where weekly episods are totally interchangeable is NOT good television?

As opposed to the short, bad matches that did fuck all to advance storylines to the point where weekly episodes were totally interchangeable that we got under Vince's booking?

[El McKell]

11 hours ago, sek69 said:

IIRC he stepped down from all positions of power (HHH took over creative, Nick/Steph running the business side) and Vince is just the primary shareholder. He gets the money but the only say he has is if the company is up for sale he has veto power. 

Plus SRS reported no one in the company is clamoring for him to be back either, as him leaving was such a morale boost it changed the trajectory of the battle with AEW. 

The board control the company but every year the shareholders vote on who gets to be on the board for the next 12 months. So whenever the fuck that meeting is Vince as the person with the majority of votes can appoint a board of people he specifically picked who'll put him back in power if he wants. I'm sure this would tank the share price, so it'd cost Vince hundreds of millions if he's ever planning on selling, but he can do it.

[MLB]

1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said:

Doesn't Seattle have a pretty strong scene? The last Smackdown taping there drew well and had a hot crowd, and AEW's debut in the area should also do well since it'll likely be headlined by Danielson/MJF along with Darby and Swerve in prominent roles. Also, Defy is one of the top indies in the country.

You are right, they did a good number in Seattle (almost 10k). But WWE runs Seattle *once* a year. That show was originally scheduled for February and got pushed back to September.  A few nights later, they did around 7900 in Portland at the Moda Arena for RAW, which holds about 19,000, still a decent number (this show was also postponed from February). In 2019, WWE drew really badly for a PPV in Seattle (see: https://411mania.com/wrestling/more-details-on-low-attendance-for-wwe-stomping-grounds-paid-attendance-reportedly-between-4000-to-4500/)

I'm not too aware of Defy, but it looks cool, they're doing in the ballpark of 600 fans at their shows.

Hopefully AEW is successful in Seattle. Looks like they have upcoming shows in Colorado as well, but right now they're running Chicago/Boston over and over and over. When was the last time AEW went to places like Phoenix, Arizona or San Francisco, California? The answer is zero.

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, Blehschmidt said:

As opposed to the short, bad matches that did fuck all to advance storylines to the point where weekly episodes were totally interchangeable that we got under Vince's booking?

I mean, both things can be bad! The one thing late-Vince era and early-Hunter era have in common is that very strong Bloodline/Sami story. I think that's the one thing carrying the shows at the moment in terms of how well it's been perceived.

[sek69]

Mandy Rose was released due to her side hustle Onlyfans-like page.

[sek69]

I wonder if this means she can be billed as Mandy Rose elsewhere since it's her real name (Rose is her middle name).

[Strummer]

Just came here to post that. Fightful reporting Mandy Rose has been released.

[Migs]

4 hours ago, MLB said:

Hopefully AEW is successful in Seattle. Looks like they have upcoming shows in Colorado as well, but right now they're running Chicago/Boston over and over and over. When was the last time AEW went to places like Phoenix, Arizona or San Francisco, California? The answer is zero.

They are literally doing their next PPV in San Fran.

[El-P]

12 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Mandy Rose was released due to her side hustle Onlyfans-like page.

"The culture has changed"

Suuuuuuure.

Insanity. It's ridiculous. I hope she go medieval on their ass, really.

[sek69]

I mean it's bullshit but also WWE is trying to sell themselves to advertisers so I get they were in a bad spot.

[El-P]

11 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I mean it's bullshit but also WWE is trying to sell themselves to advertisers so I get they were in a bad spot.

Wait, what ? Doing propaganda for a regime that kills LGBT+ and murder journalist is A-OK but a "independent contractor" showing her body on a pay site is nope for advertisers ? Sorry, but that's a complete bullshit argument. It's just abuse of the bullshit "independent contractor" status again.

[sek69]

13 minutes ago, El-P said:

Wait, what ? Doing propaganda for a regime that kills LGBT+ and murder journalist is A-OK but a "independent contractor" showing her body on a pay site is nope for advertisers ? Sorry, but that's a complete bullshit argument. It's just abuse of the bullshit "independent contractor" status again.

It is, but at the same time it is something advertisers would be wary of if it became A Thing that bad faith concern trolls went after.

Still bullshit for sure, I'm just saying I'm not surprised WWE made the move. 

[El-P]

4 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Still bullshit for sure, I'm just saying I'm not surprised WWE made the move. 

I mean, I would not have been shocked by petty booking (which in fact was what is was all about yesterday) and maybe her getting suspended for a month and de-pushed, but straight fired is amazing to me.

[NintendoLogic]

She probably makes enough off the page that it made financial sense to risk getting fired by WWE, especially if she has no plans to wrestle elsewhere. PVZ once said she made more in a month from her OnlyFans than her entire BKFC contract, which is a seven-figure deal.