AEW Full Gear - Nov 13 2021

[Coffey]

Everyone in Ring of Honor is available. There's the "forbidden door" thing with companies like Impact & New Japan. There's a whole bunch of people out there available that would be big, cool surprises... and they bring in Jay Lethal? 

Swing and a miss.

PPV was good. A lot more good than bad. The first two matches were really good. Third match was good. Main event was good. Kinda slow & dragging in the middle of the card which is also a problem with a four hour show. Cut out some of that shit, shave a few minutes off some of the matches & you have a nice 3-hour tight show. 

[C.S.]

1 minute ago, Coffey said:

Everyone in Ring of Honor is available. There's the "forbidden door" thing with companies like Impact & New Japan. There's a whole bunch of people out there available that would be big, cool surprises... and they bring in Jay Lethal? 

Swing and a miss.

Yeah, the Windham Rotunda rumors were kind of a turn-off to me (although I'm curious to see how he'll reinvent himself), but Jay Lethal makes me wish that had happened instead.

[Jmare007]

Punk vs Eddie.

Finally a match that clicks. Dope fight, crowd woke the fuck up. Exactly what I wanted from this match.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The Bucks bit with Page right before the finish took a lot of steam off the energy of the 1-2-3, at least to me. 

And what was with all the biting? Between the biting and the defiant middle fingers spots. I was thinking that someone needs to coordinate those spots so they aren't repeated.

Overall,  this was a really great show. It was just too long and a couple of matches could have been shortened. 

[Boss Rock]

Great show and cowboy shit.

[MoS]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

The Bucks bit with Page right before the finish took a lot of steam off the energy of the 1-2-3, at least to me. 

It didn't seem to affect the crowd one bit. It was a 30-second spot in a 25-minute match that was crucial in resolving a lot of arcs in Hangman's story to become the champ, from the time the Bucks refused to corner him for his match against Jericho 2.5 years ago, to yesterday night with him apologizing for costing the Bucks their title shot last year. If they had continued the story after the match ended, it would have been too much, but the climax was Hangman sitting on the shoulders of his friends soaking the adulation of the crowd. 

What I think they should have done is tweak the finishes of some of the earlier matches so that there were not so many shenanigans in basically every match, which dilutes the impact in the main event imo. I have said it before, but Tony Khan has become very proficient in basic wrestling booking, he now needs a finish guy/middleman, Pat Patterson style, to help with the formatting and finishes of his shows. It's a pity Cornette has burnt bridges with basically everyone in AEW, because he would be perfect for the role. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

Yeah, I get the story they were telling with the Bucks, man. But to me it was a speed bump in the middle of a hot finishing sequence to crown a new champ. It kneecapped the crowning moment a bit for me . But different strokes and all that. 

The PPV was a fucking blast, at the end of the night. 

[MoS]

Not a single question to Jay Lethal or Tony Khan about the allegations against him and whether they have been investigated in the post-event media scrum, but a lot of questions to the tune of "How happy you were at how amazing your pop was?!" lol. Wrestling media is a complete joke. 

[MoS]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

Yeah, I get the story they were telling with the Bucks, man. But to me it was a speed bump in the middle of a hot finishing sequence to crown a new champ. It kneecapped the crowning moment a bit for me . 

I'll be very honest, one reason it worked for me was cuz Danielson winning had made the outcome in actual doubt for me, and I really REALLY wanted Hangman to win lol. So when the ref bump happened and the Bucks walked down like they have done for every Omega match, I was genuinely expecting them to interfere and do some shit. So the twist of them not interfering like they usually do was a nice surprise and totally got me. I can justify the booking of the spot with everything I said about paying off arcs and long-term storytelling, but really, the main reason it worked for me was cuz I got worked lol. Simple as that. I genuinely can't remember the last match where I was so invested in the actual result of the match, it has been so so many years. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

14 minutes ago, MoS said:

I'll be very honest, one reason it worked for me was cuz Danielson winning had made the outcome in actual doubt for me, and I really REALLY wanted Hangman to win lol. So when the ref bump happened and the Bucks walked down like they have done for every Omega match, I was genuinely expecting them to interfere and do some shit. So the twist of them not interfering like they usually do was a nice surprise and totally got me. I can justify the booking of the spot with everything I said about paying off arcs and long-term storytelling, but really, the main reason it worked for me was cuz I got worked lol. Simple as that. I genuinely can't remember the last match where I was so invested in the actual result of the match, it has been so so many years. 

Well, that's why wrestling is so great. The stuff I didn't dig is what had you so invested. At the end of the night we all had fun watching a great show. 

 

[Jmare007]

IC vs ATT was better than the Superkliq match. Still long but I had more fun watching it. The worst part was the finish sequence.

Omega vs Hangman.

 

A proper main event and the right man won. It took me a while to get over the fact Hangman ate three straight dragon suplex (one on the apron!) and all of a sudden was able to avoid the OWA and hit a german on his own. Matt and Nick watching him hit those buckshot lariats was the type of cringe stuff I didn't feel on Wednesday's contract signing but for sure was present today @joeg . Still, I thought they gave the crowd the match they wanted. Kenny's spring board sunset bomb was insane, might be the most impressive thing I've seen him pull off to date.

 

Very good PPV that could've been great if a whole bunch of matches were shorter and didn't try to do so damn much. But I'm probably in the minority thinking that (in terms of the core AEW fanbase) so what the hell do I know.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Inner Circle vs ATT had really only two jobs. Be sort of a comedy match and put over Sammy. So it succeeded, especially Jericho yelling at Junior LOUDLY to get up to do a spot. That made me laugh, so comedy achieved.

[MoS]

6 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

Very good PPV that could've been great if a whole bunch of matches were shorter and didn't try to do so damn much. But I'm probably in the minority thinking that (in terms of the core AEW fanbase) so what the hell do I know.

I genuinely don't know a single fan who likes all these unnecessarily long matches or who thinks these PPV matches need so much time. Or goes "Wow, only a 3.5 hour show? That sucks, I'm getting ripped off!" Seems like Tony Khan is the only person who wants these shows to be 4 hours long

[MoS]

4 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

Omega vs Hangman.

 

A proper main event and the right man won. It took me a while to get over the fact Hangman ate three straight dragon suplex (one on the apron!) and all of a sudden was able to avoid the OWA and hit a german on his own.

Yeah I think this is probably the bigger "issue" (to the extent that anything was an issue in the main event) in the match more than the 30-second Bucks spot which genuinely paid off some long-running arcs and created a few new ones for the next PPV cycle. When I eventually rewatch the match, now that I know the outcome and can focus on other things, my critique of the match probably will be the insane spots they did which would barely get a 2-count, and the fact that both men would eat a bunch of bombs and then simply reverse the next bomb to get on offence, instead of meaningfully done, well-earned transitions. Hangman looked great though, which was pretty much the only thing that mattered in the end.

Sort of reminded me how both main events of WrestleMania 21 were kind of duds, especially Hunter-Batista that went way too long and had too much of Hunter on offence and Batista selling, but the most, the only important thing was that they pulled the trigger convincingly in both matches. This match was obviously better than those two WM 21 matches, but it wasn't the best match of the night, which was by some distance Punk v. Kingston, and I would argue that MJF-Darby was the second best match of the night, with either the main event or the tag title match being the 3rd best. 

[Jmare007]

Yeah, Eddie vs Punk and the opener were clearly the best matches. In fact I's put them neck and neck as far as MOTN is corncerned. 

.

[Dav'oh]

I enjoyed the show a great deal. I do yearn for a Bundy vs S.D Jones or an L.o.D vs Power & Glory on these shows; ten "serious" matches in a row gets a bit much. Hell, give me a Doink and three Dinks, just something to break things up a bit.

Casting my vote for Punk/Eddie as MotN. 

[NintendoLogic]

11 hours ago, MoS said:

Okay maybe not a double turn but that's my match of the year. Nothing in wrestling is better than a wild bloody brawl with wrestlers genuinely trying to hurt each other

Same here. That was the best pure brawl to come down the pike in ages. Punk is probably the smartest wrestler in the world right now.

[El-P]

MJF vs Darby was great. Overachieved a great deal, MJF was terrific.

Miro vs Danielson was great. Really smart to have Danielson win so as to add a bit more doubt to the main event.

FTR vs Lucha Brothers was great. They finally found a way to mesh up together.

Cole & Bucks vs Cage & Jurassik was great. As expected in creative ways. Christian is still kinda crazy.

Kingston vs CM Punk was great and insanely intense (the Cena spot had me dying too).

Omega vs Hangman was great (and that long time storytelling has been the best thing in pro-wrestling in the last two years).

Those alone make it an all-time great PPV.

Andrade & Black vs Cody & PAC was fun because of the interesting dynamic, and it had some great moments, but Cody's booking is gonna be a headcase.

Baker vs Conti was pretty good overall, they obviously still are learning, both of them.

The 10 men clusterfuck had some crazy moments and enough fun shit (the only time ever I enjoyed a claw spot) for a car crash. I wish PVZ would have been there to fuck up some Inner Circle jerks though. 

Even without the allegations, Jay..... (WHITE WHITE WHITE !!!!!! oh.... ok) Lethal would have been meh and deflating considering who's out there. The fact the first thing he did was a Ric Flair impersonation was hilarious in the wrongest way possible.

Ishii on Dynamite ? I'm fucking there.

Really an awesome PPV overall. The Hangman final, between the Bucks not doing the leg grab (that's storytelling people) and the Dark Order celebration (with Hangman throwing the beer away) was pretty much pro-wrestling perfection.

(and no, I don't mind a 4 hour PPV considering they are only doing four a year and they have been mostly great thus far. Plus I don't watch it live anyway, FITE works great, just made a one hour pause in the middle, got me through a gloomy Sunday afternoon, just perfect. I did not realize that November 13 was Eddie's death anniversary, although I finally got it when Jericho did his tribute, as November 13 in France is the anniversary of a whole other very tragic event)

[strobogo]

Has there been a Britt Baker match that hasn't completely broken down and fallen apart? That shit was a MESS, and Tay certainly isn't experienced enough to keep things on track. She's got the gimmick and the attitude and the promos, but everything goes to shit when the bell rings and the only time it has actually benefitted the match was the unsanctioned match with Thunder Rosa. 

The opening for MJF/Darby really annoyed me. Could not have looked more cooperative and planned out step by step, but it got better after that. I'm not really sure an extended indie respect stand off really made much sense for their characters or the storyline, either. 

Tag title match was better than their previous matches, although I just don't think Southern wrasslin team meshes with wild lucha team 9 times out of 10. Did pop for the American Alpha shout out. 

10 man tag was better than expected. Couldn't have rolled my eyes harder at Jericho doing the Frye/Takayama spot with JDS and actually getting JDS to beg off from it. This man's mid life crisis is just getting worse. Both of these matches should have had some time shaved and given to

Punk vs Eddie, easily Punk's best match in AEW so far, but felt short and was in fact the shortest match on the card by quite a bit. Real weird dynamic where fans are willing to boo Punk and cheer Eddie doing cheap shots, but also then ending with Eddie refusing a handshake. Punk reacting in confusion and then getting mad the fans were booing him leading to throwing in a few extra shots was cool and hopefully this is the end of happy to be here Punk going forward. His MOOEY TIE shorts straight up looked like boxers tho. 

6 man tag was a lot of fun but I'm truly baffled that they keep having Adam Cole pairing off with Luchasaurus and physically dominating him in almost every interaction these two groups have had. Also where the fuck is Marko Stunt? Dude just got completely phantom zoned as soon as Christian showed up. At least have the Bucks murder him or something. Or maybe they did and I missed it that week.

Codyverse tag should have been a TV main event instead of a PPV match. Really no reason for it to get PPV time, and the show being nearly 4 hours certainly would have benefitted from this being on TV and the PPV being a little shorter.

Bryan/Miro could have been better. Also prob should have been a little shorter. Miro's leg looks to be in pretty bad shape and I assume that's why he hadn't been in the ring since dropping the title to Sammy until the last second match with OC. 

Page/Omega was real strong but the crowd was struggling to keep the heat going for a big section in the middle that I feel probably wouldn't have been the case if the show hadn't been 3 1/2 hours long (plus the Buy In) when the match started. Super hot for the intros, super hot for the run up to the finish and the finish and post match stuff, but there was a lot of stuff in the middle they seemed too tired to really keep that energy going. I get that they only have PPVs every 4 months or so, so they want to put on a big super event and all, but 3 hours should be a hard limit for ANY wrestling show. This was close to 4 and felt it by the end. Especially in a company where every match is a "try to steal the show" type of deal. It's exhausting in the same way that a PWG show can be. 

 

Which is not a bad problem to have. I'd rather have a long show that is exhausting because there's too much good stuff on it than a long show that's exhausting because it fucking sucks. Should be interesting to see where things head after this. Full dickhead American Dragon torturing Page should be delightful.

[Jimmy Redman]

I watched this show in three separate shifts and I still found it exhausting.

I get that they're always trying to top themselves and PPVs are more scarce, but it's too much, and I'm only on my second PPV. I missed the opener live and started with the tag title match, and it was great and even my family watching were into it, thought the Lucha Bros were so cool, popped for the high spots, bought all the nearfalls, for a while... and then by the millionth nearfall they were just numb. So was I. By the time they got to the actual finish, it was like, oh, okay, that's what did it. It's just too much.

And even THAT would be okay in a vacuum as the one insane never ending match (kind of like how Bucks/Lucha Bros was at All Out), but then the next match felt the same way, going on and on and on. Then the next one. Then the next one. And we didn't even see the fucking 25 min opener! They have to do something about these PPVs, I love AEW and I don't even know if I want to watch the next PPV live all in one go next time, even if I'm able to. I know they used to go all out on Takeovers, but they were like 5 match cards and still stayed under 3 hours. Even trying to add variety by making street fights, falls count anywhere, etc. doesn't work when you have the same pace, the same length, the same fatigue from a million spots in every match.

Punk vs. Eddie was the best and most satisfying match on the show, not only because of the story and the match itself, but also because it was the only match on the card that didn't feel like it should have been 5+ mins shorter.

Having said that, it was still a really good show. Every match was at least good I guess, but like I said, they were just all long, and it was hard not to feel that was the main takeaway.

I've just caught up on Darby/MJF and it ruled pretty hard. I know they're probably building MJF up for a title shot next year, but honestly I only want to see MJF wrestling that well like once a year max, just to prove he can. He's too much of a shithead to be doing Eddie Dean sequences and getting stand off applause. But it was fun shit, and once he took over his offense was fucking insane. That powerbomb onto the knee killed me. And I liked the bullshit at the finish despite it making the babyface look like a fucking moron, which I hate. But MJF can brag about winning with a headlock takeover forever so it worked.

The Cody tag had no business being on the card, and was another thing that made the show needlessly long. I could not give less of a fuck about Cody and everyone in his orbit.

God Bless Tay Conti, she's great and works so hard, but absolutely nobody on earth thought she was winning here. I really hope they move to Britt and Rosa, and possibly give Rosa the belt too, because Britt has no other credible challengers and it's hurting the division.

Another thing that bugged me was the Eddie spots. Not that they did something for Eddie, I get why and it was nice, but just that they did the exact same tribute spots in like three different matches. Like, if you're going to do it, pick one guy and let them do the tribute. By the time Jericho did his (and he's the guy with the closest actual connection to Eddie) it felt cheap because I'd already seen it twice. Felt like a left hand, right hand situation.

Eddie Punk fucking ruled from start to finish. The build was amazing, the way they came out laser focused and just fucking got into it was the best. Punk doing fucking John Cena spots and leaning into the fact that he's basically the Being John Cena champion of AEW, glorious. We are inching closer and closer to full on asshole Punk. And Eddie is great and deserves the world. They have to give him a big win on a big show soon man.

Anywho for all my whinging I watched the show to see them strap up Page, and they did so it was worth every penny. Fucking loved the horse entrance. The note on the graphic DES-TROYED ME completely. I'm not even 3 months in and Hangman has only just come back and I barely have the slightest clue who he is or what the story is between him and the Elite but I am ALL FUCKING IN on this sweet little cowboy bloke. If they fucked this up I probably would have tapped out of wrestling again and gone back to living a fulfilling life in the real world. Heaven forbid.

The match was good but one of those matches I couldn't possibly pay any attention to because I was too concerned about the result. Also please let Omega go away for a long time and heal and do whatever because frankly I just can't get around Omega.

I did not enjoy the Bucks thing at the finish AT ALL. First of all, it completely distracted me from the finish and took away from it being a big, momentous climax. I was too busy watching them and trying to figure out the angle to realise that it WAS the finish. Also, just the way that they shot it, with the weird long close ups on both Bucks ACTING~ just wasn't good, I didn't even get what they were going for until I started reading things afterwards. I understand that it was a callback to the wider Hangman story and wasn't for me, but it felt unnecessary. They could have completed the story by just staying the fuck away and not interfering. But anyway that's a minor complaint because the main thing was that he won clean as a fucking sheet and he won clean as a fucking sheet.

I hate that all the things I had to say were complaints because it was a good show with a great title win.

[C.S.]

45 minutes ago, Jimmy Redman said:

God Bless Tay Conti, she's great and works so hard, but absolutely nobody on earth thought she was winning here. I really hope they move to Britt and Rosa, and possibly give Rosa the belt too, because Britt has no other credible challengers and it's hurting the division.

Boggles my mind that they didn't save Britt vs. Ruby for this show.

Instead, they went with a much "lesser" match in stature and intrigue.

Why?

[Big Pete]

Quote

Page/Omega was real strong but the crowd was struggling to keep the heat going for a big section in the middle that I feel probably wouldn't have been the case if the show hadn't been 3 1/2 hours long (plus the Buy In) when the match started. Super hot for the intros, super hot for the run up to the finish and the finish and post match stuff, but there was a lot of stuff in the middle they seemed too tired to really keep that energy going. I get that they only have PPVs every 4 months or so, so they want to put on a big super event and all, but 3 hours should be a hard limit for ANY wrestling show. This was close to 4 and felt it by the end. Especially in a company where every match is a "try to steal the show" type of deal. It's exhausting in the same way that a PWG show can be.  

I don't think the slow start helped the match at all. A lot of going through the motions and silly 'pro rasslin' managerial spots until Omega teased the buckshot and got Hangman to fire up. I understand why they did it but outside of that brief moment where Kenny turned the Buckshot into a V-Trigger and teased an OWA, Hangman never looked like he was going to lose. I understand they wanted to have Hangman out-perform Omega, but it seemed like Kenny didn't bring his A game either.

[Stiva]

I think Omega is fairly banged up, wouldn’t surprise me to see him take a good chunk of time off after this.

I echo what others have said in that this show was the first AEW PPV in a while that felt like a bit of a slog to get through. The Falls Count Anywhere match and the tag title match went far too long and I think the whole show peaked with Darby and MJF. There’s not many arguments you can make about the booking though Jay Lethal wouldn’t be my first pick from the ROH crew. I can see why they’d pick him up and he got a decent reaction so maybe it’ll work out in the long run.

Glad Hangman finally got his moment and Punk/Kingston was blow away great. I do wonder where they’re going with Eddie. He’s so good on the mic and has so much credit in the bank with the fans that I don’t think losing to Punk hurts him but there’s a definite sense that everyone is desperate for him to win a big one

[El-P]

9 hours ago, Jimmy Redman said:

I did not enjoy the Bucks thing at the finish AT ALL. First of all, it completely distracted me from the finish and took away from it being a big, momentous climax. I was too busy watching them and trying to figure out the angle to realise that it WAS the finish. Also, just the way that they shot it, with the weird long close ups on both Bucks ACTING~ just wasn't good, I didn't even get what they were going for until I started reading things afterwards. I understand that it was a callback to the wider Hangman story and wasn't for me, but it felt unnecessary.

It did not *distract* from the finish and wasn't unnecessary. It was the main spot that *led* to the finish. It was not just a neat callback spot, the entire story of the Hangman splitting for real with his friends came from that key moment. Also, the Bucks were pretty much perfect here, they absolutely did not overact, let's not pretend it was a "Sorry I love you" heavy handed spot, because it was just not. At some point, it's like we're you're watching a show from Season 2 or 3, yeah you won't have all of the details and that's ok but frankly, that's not on the show to make it simplistic for everyone to get everything. The Elite stuff is all about depths, like the subtle Ibushi reference that was made by Hangman. Depths is a good thing. It's what made Hangman's win so much better in the grand scheme of things and it keeps on pushing the story of the Elite further. Like it's been said, the big apex is gonna be one day all of those guys together again as babyfaces. 

Now we get Hangman vs Danielson. Can't wait.

8 hours ago, C.S. said:

Boggles my mind that they didn't save Britt vs. Ruby for this show.

Instead, they went with a much "lesser" match in stature and intrigue.

Why?

Because they did not want to beat Ruby again. And they do not want to take the belt off Baker yet. Basic. Quite frankly, as much as I've enjoyed Soho, to me she hasn't exactly set the world on fire as far as in-ring goes and having a catchy song will only go so far as far as getting over with this kind of hardcore audience. The one who should beat Baker is Thunder Rosa, really. She's one if not their best women worker (maybe it's Deeb) and she's one of the most over too. And she beat Baker in that "unsanctioned" match. She has to be the next champ.

The issue with the women's matches is that, apart from a few select times (Baker vs Rosa brawl, Shida vs Deeb II, some early Riho matches), they absolutely can't follow the average level of the work. I mean, I had watched the Stardom Kawasaki Wars show a few days before, and holly hell the gap is still *huge* on average (I've been really really impressed by the average level of the promotion, and the peaks are really high too). I really like Conti, but as shown here she's still green. Ditto Anna Jay, who has come back from the injury seemingly hesitant. Soho is not the answer either. They need more super solid veteran women to work with the younger ones and more women with strong characters and personality to get over. Taya Valkyrie is soon available... 

[MoS]

I wouldn't be surprised if TK just decides to go with Eddie-Punk as the modern version of Austin-Bret. That feud has a lot of legs left and it definitely feels like it's Punk's first proper feud back.