WrestleMania 39

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Just watched night 2 now.  Fun times.  Big Dog rules and I love that he retained.  Fuck Cody as a general rule.  I'm intrigued to see where they go with the Roman reign and would be thrilled if Jey won it (though I can't imagine that being the direction tbh).  I don't think this was a Vince call but that will be a convenient boogeyman for people who hated the decision.

MOTN was obviously the IC (certainly an all-time great Mania match off the top of my head) and I also really liked Brock/Omos.

[Robert S]

3 hours ago, Sweet Brown Koko said:

What if it’s Jey and they bring that full circle? That’s the only one that I can think of that they might be able to heat up to get to that level. He’s not there now but I believe he has that type of potential.

If it goal is Jey, I would think they would have gone a different route with the Sami - Uso resolution (something like having Jimmy + Sikoa turn on Jey at Elimination Chamber). At this point, the only internal options I can see them having are Breakker and Sikoa - and both I have a hard time seeing as being ready within a year or so. Maybe they will go the ROH 2004 route and do a suprise title switch with a random guy that just happens to be hot. Of course, they will probably go the most boring route and have Lesnar or Rollins stop Roman's reign.

EDIT: BTW, am I a bad person for laughing at Shane blowing out his knee?

[Blehschmidt]

7 minutes ago, Robert S said:

BTW, am I a bad person for laughing at Shane blowing out his knee?

You're not alone. After the debacle that was him in last years Rumble, and the groan I gave when he came out last night. I have to admit I may have chuckled at his misfortune as well.

[WingedEagle]

Is Roman/Cody the most shocking result since Brock/Taker?  What else is even in the discussion before or after that?

[sek69]

25 minutes ago, WingedEagle said:

Is Roman/Cody the most shocking result since Brock/Taker?  What else is even in the discussion before or after that?

Maybe Ivan/Bruno in terms of "no one was expecting that result"?

[KawadaSmile]

35 minutes ago, WingedEagle said:

Is Roman/Cody the most shocking result since Brock/Taker?  What else is even in the discussion before or after that?

I think Brock/Taker was a bit different. Brock WAS built like a world beater even if he did come back in 2012 in a losing effort, but people were like "haha as if you would do that". Like, it made sense for Lesnar to win, but to see that 21-1 was still surreal. 

Roman/Cody was just a controversial (some may say bad) result after a build that took months. I think it's closer to Okada/Naito than anything - champ is on a legendary run (Gedo was trying his fucking hardest to get Okada to get that title defense record), takes on fan favorite, white hot challenger and comes out on top.

Let's just hope it doesn't take two years for Cody to get his big win back.

[...TG]

Finn posted a photo of the massive cut on his scalp on his instagram. (It's disgusting, so I won't be linking it.) Pausing the match and stapling it was really the only way they could have continued.

[The Man in Blak]

Bringing it full circle with Jey winning it from Roman would be one way to salvage this, except that you're asking Jey Uso to be capable as a singles babyface in a way that feels completely out of reach right now. Jey's definitely leveled up through his arc in the Bloodline and he's absolutely someone that seems primed to hold a singles belt at some point in the future, but that still seems like a bridge too far for me in 2023 on the heels of this. If you're looking to "keep it in the family" with whoever beats Roman, why not give it to Solo at this point?

The other thing to call out separate from the decision itself is the actual finish - having Solo somehow sneak back in and cost Cody the title would have been a bullshit overbooked finish for a B-Tier supercard main event, but to do it for Wrestlemania? Really? 

[The Man in Blak]

14 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Roman/Cody was just a controversial (some may say bad) result after a build that took months. I think it's closer to Okada/Naito than anything - champ is on a legendary run (Gedo was trying his fucking hardest to get Okada to get that title defense record), takes on fan favorite, white hot challenger and comes out on top.

Okada/Naito, weirdly enough, is the most optimistic outcome here -- especially if this ends up sparking a killer heel turn for Cody like it did for Naito -- but I feel like there's also a chance that this ends up being a mirror universe version of Starrcade '97, where the finish was so bad that it ends up poisoning everybody involved. Regardless of who wins it now, the wrestler that beats Roman is going to have to fight through some resentment from the fans that they got the spot instead of Cody or Sami.

[Jmare007]

10 minutes ago, The Man in Blak said:

Okada/Naito, weirdly enough, is the most optimistic outcome here -- especially if this ends up sparking a killer heel turn for Cody like it did for Naito -- but I feel like there's also a chance that this ends up being a mirror universe version of Starrcade '97, where the finish was so bad that it ends up poisoning everybody involved. Regardless of who wins it now, the wrestler that beats Roman is going to have to fight through some resentment from the fans that they got the spot instead of Cody or Sami.

I think Bubba is talking about Okada vs Naito in 2018, when Naito had already went through 24-30 months of a very hot "rebellious" heel run and  got the title shot 1 year later than he should've gotten it. Naito won the G-1 and everyone was certain he would win at WK...but he lost, Okada got his historic title reign and ended up losing to Omega.

The Naito win took 2 more years and three other people got the IWGP title before him in that time. When he won in 2020 it was a feel good moment but it felt too late, as by point Ibushi was the one that was the hottest in the promotion (and it took 1 more year for him to get the belt).

The happy accident of Naito being squandered by Gedo was Kenny Omega becoming a massive draw.

 

Maybe Sami is the Kenny in this Reigns/Cody analogy?

 

 

[Tetsujin]

1 hour ago, WingedEagle said:

Is Roman/Cody the most shocking result since Brock/Taker?  What else is even in the discussion before or after that?

Naito/Okada at WK 12 is definitely more shocking than this was. Nothing beats the ending of the Streak though.

[The Man in Blak]

Yeah, I'll stand corrected, I mixed up the timings there - it's hard to keep track of how many times Naito has had a disappointing loss in a world title match sometimes!

[Johnny Sorrow]

1 hour ago, Blehschmidt said:

You're not alone. After the debacle that was him in last years Rumble, and the groan I gave when he came out last night. I have to admit I may have chuckled at his misfortune as well.

We had a living room full of friends and kids during the show. I went outside for a smoke when Miz and Snoop started their bit. I walked back in, saw Shane , and immediately launched into how I can't stand him to all listening. Exactly three seconds later he blew out his quad. 

I know it's not cool to make fun of a real injury,  but our living room laughed including the kids.

[KawadaSmile]

How does Roman beating Cody compare to Austin getting help from Vince and shaking his hand after he beat The Rock at X7?

[Migs]

1 minute ago, KawadaSmile said:

How does Roman beating Cody compare to Austin getting help from Vince and shaking his hand after he beat The Rock at X7?

That one was a worse decision for sure - this time there's no Attitude Era level run to kill. (Although I guess we'll see if ticket sales keep the same pace, they'd been doing pretty well as of late.)

[flyonthewall2983]

Finn Balor looked like Apocalypse Now

[Embrodak]

Maybe they’re going for Okada/Tanahashi, the new ace choking at the last minute and needing more time in the crucible before he’s ready to step up. Wouldn’t surprise me if they ran Cody vs Roman again for Summerslam, despite the stip for the tag match last night.

[TheDuke]

I believe Roman suggested to HHH that they do the Rocky III story and Cody said he had never heard of Rocky III.

 

 

And Hogan said he was going to come back in the Thunderlips role.

[El-P]

Fun fact, Roman Reigns is the guy with the most main event wins at Mania that left the crowd deflated (at best) : 32, 33, 34 and 39. 

That's what he's *actually* the GOAT at : making a sad crowd go back to their cars as quickly as possible as soon as his match ends. No one empties a depressed Mania crowd as fast as he does. When all is said and done, I don't think the Reigns years will be look at very favorably in the grand scheme of things if anyone looks at them *objectively*, despite the ongoing neverending simping for the privileged chosen one. The huge FOX TV right deals had more to do with Ronda Rousey & Lesnar, the ridiculously huge Saudi deals had more to do with Goldy or Taker (and the Ultimate Warrior and such). The product really only got hot again when the Bloodline angle involving that Sami guy really caught fire (and that Cody fellow jumped from that pissant company), he was outsold in merchandise by Bray Wyatt regularly. The guy never was John Cena, and of course let's not dwelve into the two biggest peaks of the promotion (Hogan, Austin/Rock). Most overrated mega-push of all time this side of, well, some Triple letter guy in the early to mid 00's.

And his style of main events really is EVIL shit, now, with Solo as Dick Togo and the Usos as Takahashi & Sho. More of that for a year, because Endeavor is gonna want The Rock @ 40. "Let the story play out..."

[NintendoLogic]

1 hour ago, TheDuke said:

I believe Roman suggested to HHH that they do the Rocky III story and Cody said he had never heard of Rocky III.

 

 

And Hogan said he was going to come back in the Thunderlips role.

HHH has definitely seen Rocky IV, though. Jobbing out Cody in front of -1 was like letting Ivan Drago kill Apollo Creed in front of James Brown.

[DMJ]

I don't even hear so many people saying "Let the story play out..." as I do "lolz at the Cody stans" and "Of course Cody was never gonna win, he started AEW." 

What's more interesting to me is that nobody I've talked to, read a review from, heard on a podcast or whatever has given a good defense for the booking decision. To me, that makes it different from Lesnar ending the Streak which was definitely controversial but not at all indefensible. McMahon's reasoning was pretty apparent from the second the match ended. 

This was a Luger-in-93'-level loss or, if you're a more recent fan, Booker T jobbing to Triple H at WrestleMania or, even more recently, the losses suffered by Drew McIntyre and Sami Zayn. Cody Rhodes losing put him at that same level that McIntyre, Kevin Owens, Zayn, Lashley, and Rollins and others are, which is a step below Roman. Its not a bad spot to be in. Its higher up than I think fans ever expected Cody to get when he left the WWE. But what's irritating is that they have multiple guys in that spot and when they have the opportunity to pull the trigger on moving a guy up to that highest level (even just for a little while) and that guy checks so many of the boxes that the company seems to value most, its almost frustrating to watch them just create another Sheamus. 

As for Bron Breaker, Jay White, or GUNTHER being the ones to end this reign, I don't see it. Bron Breakker is champion of the minor league and is completely unknown outside of that portion of the audience. Jay White doesn't have the body of work, on a national level in the US, that AJ Styles had when he debuted or even a Kenny Omega/Young Bucks would have if they were to jump ship. GUNTHER is a mega heel and I don't see him becoming the big hero who takes down the Bloodline. 

But back to my first point...aside from just saying that Roman Reigns is awesome (and I agree), is there any real defense for why Cody losing was the right call?

[The Thread Killer]

I went into Wrestlemania this year not really all that interested and I definitely wasn’t invested in the outcome. There is probably something to be said about going into a show with low expectations. But it doesn’t really matter how you slice it, if you look at it based solely on the in ring product, both nights were really damn good, and I say that somewhat begrudgingly.

A few of those matches overdelivered to a ridiculous level. I am thinking especially about the Charlotte/Rhea match and the 3 Way IC match. I know this sounds hyperbolic but I think that both of those matches could go down as all timers. And the Main Event of Night 1 definitely delivered and didn’t disappoint.

As far as Cody/Roman? Up until the finish, I was digging the hell out of that match. I just strongly disagree with the booking. I was the first one to crap on Roman for years, but people refusing to acknowledge (see what I did there) how much he has improved or how great he is now are either people who don’t actually watch his matches or they have some other axe to grind. I don’t see a compelling argument against him being the greatest active Pro Wrestler in North America right now. Maybe Danielson but after that I don’t think it’s even close. Who else is there? Moxley? Give me a fucking break. Omega? Putting aside the fact that he has barely wrestled any singles matches over the past couple years, he just doesn’t have the tools Reigns has and at this point he never will.

The main strike against Roman is shitty booking and the total lack of viable opponents for him. That’s why we got him vs. Lesnar a million times, and they ended up having to book him against Logan Fucking Paul. I know it would never happen, but it would be awesome if Reigns could compete in New Japan or even AEW. It kills me to think the quality of the stuff he could do if he wasn’t hamstrung by WWE. But they invented him, they get to keep him. And considering the money he’s making and the schedule he works, who can blame him.

[ragemaster]

Just a random observation on the total unawareness of the people in charge of the the WWE.

Any one else roll their eye's when Michael Cole tried to put the company over in the Flair vs Ripley match.  

This is an historic match tonight because for the first time in WrestleMania history. All women are involved in this match (including the ring announcer and referee) This moment has never happened in the history of 39 wrestlemaina's 

Oblivious to the fact that its an all male commentary team calling the match and it's 2023

Oh and I think Jason Jordan produced it, if the information is correct.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

The IC match is undoubtedly one of the GOAT Mania matches, in my opinion.  I'm not as high on Rhea/Charlotte but it was a good match.

[El-P]

25 minutes ago, ragemaster said:

This is an historic match tonight because for the first time in WrestleMania history. All women are involved in this match (including the ring announcer and referee) This moment has never happened in the history of 39 wrestlemaina's 

Yeah, anything relating to women while trying to put the company over is utterly pathetic, really. "Hey, we're all working for a sexual predator who sexually harassed and assaulted several women and paid them off so they shut up, but look in the ring, two female wrestlers plus a female referee, wow, that's a Mania Moment tm, WWE is influencing the world !". This company is a complete trashfuck clown show and only getting worse with the merger in term of toxic culture.