AEW TV - 10/10 - 10/14 - For Me It Was Tuesday

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Mr Wrestling 2000 said:

 Im very curious who Bryans hand picked CMLL opponent will be. Im hoping its Blue Panther or someone equally old.

Blue Panther is supposed to be his own personal lucha dream match. Ultimo Guerrero would be ridiculous though.

Meanwhile, QT Marshall, the undisputed Champion of Mexico, teased a match against Negro Casas. If both happens in the same company (Casas has been with AAA lately), that would be pretty incredible.

[NintendoLogic]

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

Also, it bears repeating that the National Labor Relations Act explicitly prohibits employers from supporting unions. The whole point of a union is to represent the interests of workers against employers, and a union that's too chummy with management can't be considered an independent bargaining representative.

[El-P]

Pro-wrestling is years behind the times when you compare it to other entertainment industry fields (script-writer strike anyone ?). When you have guys like Cody Rhodes stating that "unions would destroy pro-wrestling" or something a few years back, it's a long way from Jesse Ventura attempt which dates from 40 years ago now. Blame Hogan for being a rat (among other things). The new generation has been brainswashed with the whole "I'm my own brand" mentality, which erase all notion of working collectively for the better of everyone, I don't see anything happening anytime soon on that front. Oh yeah, Zelina Vega was absolutely supporting unionizing for a second (ya know, before she went back crawling working for Vince). But that's neither here nor there.

[The Man in Blak]

2 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

Amen.

[MoS]

I thought the angle with MJF was gross but the episode itself was excellent otherwise. Since the debut of Collision I have noticed a concerted effort and some improvement in week-to-week booking, following up on matches and angles, and sticking with the young talent you are trying to push instead of cycling them off so TK can focus on other pet projects instead. 

There is plenty to be excited about as far as AEW is concerned, so much good stuff, not just matches (and the Elite/PWG/West Coast Indie style of wrestling has never appealed to me anyway), but also gimmicks, angles, pushes, people, etc. Now if TK can just chill the fuck out instead of doing his best 80s-90s Vince/late 90s Bischoff/2000s- present Dana impression, that would be great.

And yeah, never, ever, ever, book an antisemitism/racism/homophobia/transphobia/angle for heat and comeuppance, even if it's not a literal war week (actual Middle East war, not the bullshit ratings battle). Ironically, the ex-fans/posters decrying modern wrestling really love such angles. Meltz spent so much time talking about how there is so much precedent in these matters and how what TK did was so mild, it made his "I don't support this at all" claim get overwhelmed by all the qualifiers he introduced, and his bullshit point about how people actually experiencing these horrors in Israel and Gaza don't really get offended or care about this angle. Well yeah, no fucking shit, Sherlock. The Iraqis did not give a single fuck about what WWF was doing in 1990-1991 either. WWF's angle was still gross and disgusting. 

Also time for the world champion to realise that he fucked up by trying to use this shit for heat, instead of constantly posting about how this is Great, Actually. And time for AEW/Tony Khan to take full responsibility for what appears on their TV, PPVs, and all other product. "TK didn't book it, MJF did" is a total cop-out, and I totally agree with @The Man in Blak regarding the ultimate responsibility falling on the shoulders of the promotion, and the promoter. TK is the boss of AEW, and whatever happens on AEW's shows, good or bad, is on him. It is his job, his responsibility to ensure such gross bullshit is never allowed to air on his show. 

AEW is still doing plenty of excellent stuff, with wrestling (Danielson v. Swerve, right after Danielson v. Fletcher), King FINALLY getting deserved TV time, Ricky Starks, Christian being literally the best gimmick and worker of the year, Darby continuing to get elevated, again, Ricky FUCKING Starks, Powerhouse Hobbs being made to look like a superstar and a monster, Timeless Toni Storm being the absolute greatest and getting MASSIVELY over, as her interference in the Saraya-Shida match showed, given how hot the fans were for it instead of sitting on their hands and getting bored and doing absolutely nothing, which is how this usual Outcasts angle and their interference have been received and responded to by fans during the entirety of the Outcasts' run so far (silent films during American PiP commercials notwithstanding, but those are literally learning steps, you learn from them, all promotions have thousands of such examples, with some of the greatest of all time like Rock having some notable missteps and boringas fuck segments when they started developing and working with the gimmick that ultimately made them a megastar - seriously, go watch some of Rocky's weekly promos in December 1997-April 1998, some really cringe stuff), Miro continuing to be awesome and really resentful of his hot flexible wife, Swerve Strickland climbing the ranks and becoming a major player, owning the ring with his charisma and presence, even Takeshita (whom I am ambivalent on) getting a push, and, once again, RICKY MOTHERFUCKING STARKS.

So much great stuff to look forward to every week, so much great stuff to be generally excited about in terms of how the promotion and its wrestlers are evolving, getting pushed, being showcased and elevated, etc.

[NintendoLogic]

To me, saying the MJF/Juice angle was mild by historical standards wasn't so much an attempt to minimize it as an acknowledgement of how bad things really were in the past. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that Harley Race was calling Ron Simmons "boy" in promos. And I'm pretty sure Meltzer is himself Jewish (he's said in the past that he lost relatives in the Holocaust), so he certainly wouldn't be inclined to take that sort of thing lightly.

[KawadaSmile]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

"TK didn't book it, MJF did" is a total cop-out, and I totally agree with @The Man in Blak regarding the ultimate responsibility falling on the shoulders of the promotion, and the promoter. TK is the boss of AEW, and whatever happens on AEW's shows, good or bad, is on him. It is his job, his responsibility to ensure such gross bullshit is never allowed to air on his show. 

Absolutely. I mentioned MJF being the one to book his angles precisely because wrestlers are ones to go with awful fucking ideas when left to their own devices. MJF and Juice weren't exactly "just following orders", because top management fails to assign anything to anyone, as we have learned. The blame is on TK, but it wasn't his idea (although his flat out refusal to acknowledge that angle being tasteless makes me wonder if indeed that was the case).

 

But also like bubba said, AEW has actually tons of good stuff going on. Talent are getting the chance to shine, the AEW Women's Title is on the right hands again, and most interestingly of all, they are managing to strike deals with the top two Mexican companies at the same time. It's quite crazy.

I don't think him trolling Cena and Taker for being on shows which drew less than 1M viewers was a bad thing - he can be very fucking funny when that coco hits. However, him talking about his sick mother on the same tweet as he mentions WWE tampering is a bit more suspect, but still, those things overshadow what's undeniably good about the company.

[strobogo]

Juice used the roll of quarters on AEW TV before Max relayed his story of bullying, so it kind of makes sense for a heel who already uses such a thing to use it to bully the champ and get in his head, with MJF eventually beating the bully and healing his trauma. 

Everything character wise is MJF. The "Jewish stereotypes" are Max being Max and developing that character before AEW existed. There's no way MJF is doing a storyline he thinks is anti-semetic. I think it was supposed to be read as the bullying and mind games, not "we're gonna fuck with this Jew".  

[C.S.]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:23 PM, MLB said:

Just wow at that statement...you don't know Bischoff. 

And you do?

  

On 10/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, The Thread Killer said:

Dude, speaking as somebody who has been posting here at NMB/PWO for 18 years…please just take the damn L and move on, already. Nothing good can possibly come out of continuing this conversation.

This!

Not sure if it's something in the air or some vibe I'm putting out, but this week alone, I've run into two of the most idiotic conversations I've ever had here. 

Neither were with longtime, respected, good posters, with whom I occasionally disagree (and vice versa) but always cordially.

[sek69]

Remember when everyone in WWE shit on Mistico because he had the temerity to act like a star? Pepperidge Farms remembers....

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, sek69 said:

Remember when everyone in WWE shit on Mistico because he had the temerity to act like a star? Pepperidge Farms remembers....

Pepperidge Farm remembers that he also completely shit the bed with one of the dullest and most underwhelming runs ever. Maybe there's blame to go all around for that - I don't know - but whatever the reasons are, he sucked in WWE.

[sek69]

I would suppose being treated like shit for daring to believe you're a star despite being the biggest draw in Mexico would make you not put in your best effort. 

[Big Pete]

I don't think that's entirely accurate. The WWE treated the Sin Cara signing as a huge deal and even staged a press conference for it. If anything they just couldn't leave well enough alone and instead of letting Sin Cara's work do the talking, they gave him the big elaborate entrance, mood lighting and a weird storyline with Sin Cara Negro.

It wasn't until injuries, wellness failures and other backstage incidents took place that they lost interest and realised they could get as much value as putting Hunico under the mask.

Ultimately I think both parties were to blame. WWE for over-producing and Sin Cara for being unprofessional.

[El-P]

They thought Mistico was some kind of Rey Mysterio Jr. because "small mexican under a hood be like". Except that wasn't at all the appeal of Mistico and why he was such a huge star. He wasn't a flashy underdog type. He was fucking Mistico, the king of Arena Mexico. The fact they also wanted him to work "WWE style" just fucked his confidence, which is why he ended up injured (see also : KENTA). That plus the fact they were shocked a guy who was a huge star in his home-country expected to be treated as such and not some guy who they could reprogram made it sure it was gonna be a failure. Of course Mistico's ego did not help, but it was a clear case of WWE not understanding at all who they signed.

[Embrodak]

Hunicara was actually pretty alright, iirc. 

[Big Pete]

1 hour ago, Embrodak said:

Hunicara was actually pretty alright, iirc. 

He was like a Tyson Kidd, Drew McIntyre, Chris Masters etc. where you'd tune into watch his C-show matches because he was having quality TV matches. You could understand why they kept him around even after the Sin Cara angle and even gave him a spot on one of the video games.

Wasn't Averno constantly being discussed as a potential WWE signee around that time? I swear they were going to bring somebody else into face Sin Cara only to get cold feet. In the end it just seemed like one of those half-baked ideas they didn't fully commit to for one reason or another.

That whole 2010-12 era is so wild looking back on. Not just in WWE, but even in TNA, ROH, NJPW etc. Of all promotions Chikara was fast becoming the internet darling around this time, until Quack shut it down and NJPW had the crazy idea of putting the IWGP Championship on that Green Lantern wannabe from Xplosion.

[Johnny Sorrow]

WWE definitely had big plans for Mistico as Sin Cara cause besides the big press conference,  they had him as the main character besides Cena in the first Scooby-Doo/ WWE cartoon movie. But by the time the movie came out he was gone and Hunico had taken over. 

[Coffey]

I know it's an AEW thread in the AEW section, so I might be veering into off topic, but I actually remember quite liking Hunico. Not so much when he was wearing the Mistico mask but more so when he was coming out with Camacho. Then, because of this thread, I thought "whatever happened to Camacho?" So I looked him up & had my mind blown that it's the same wrestler that teams with Tama Tonga as the Guerillas in New Japan. Small world.

[Dav'oh]

Everyone in the company worked "WWE Style", so of course they wanted Mistico to work that style. He should've adapted. He wasn't in Arena Mexico anymore with his favoured dance partners helping make him look like a million pesos (which is why they wanted Averno to come in).

[Blehschmidt]

and Adam Copeland just called Ricky Starks a "vanilla midget version of The Rock" on Collision.

Fucking Hell.

[Jmare007]

Christian vs Danielson was fucking great. Best outcome too, though I gotta wonder if it was Ricky just being a little shit or if he's actually gonna get a third match with Dragon.

[Jmare007]

Btw, PnP is a nice feature but seeing the fans helping Danielson get up so he could be the 10 count and not being able to hear Nigel undoubtedly lose his shit on commentary is a cotdamn crime.

[sek69]

Seeing a whole ass package about CMLL on US TV is blowing my mind.  It can't be understated how against the norm it is for CMLL to be such an active partner with a foreign company. Yes they work with NJPW, they send guys to work Fantastica Mania shows because the Japanese fans love seeing lucha style and it makes them money, but they never really make a big deal about it. They announced their partnership with AEW on their Twitter account and let them use footage on their TV. For a company that was very much in the Vince mindset of "we'll work with other promotions but we won't ever do much to promote them" this is groundbreaking. 

[KawadaSmile]

That whole Edge/Ricky exchange was weird. Copeland got so heated for no reason!

[Jmare007]

18 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

That whole Edge/Ricky exchange was weird. Copeland got so heated for no reason!

Only think I can come up with is that when they ran the segment down before the show there was no interaction between the two. And when Ricky threw that little shot, the veteran didn't like it.

No matter how you slice it though, Copeland comes out looking terrible. I don't think the vanilla midget line means anything in 2023 but it just shows terrible judgement from a guy that's supposed to be the reliable veteran.