WWE Survivor Series - War Games - 11/24 - What Do You See?

[El-P]

29 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

but I am talking about stuff like him going out of his way to bury others on press conferences, punch other talent, lunge at execs etc. 

Yeah, probably won't happen.
I could see him throw some digs at the Bucks though and Cody not liking it. Cody is basically the N°2 guy in the promotion now, and I don't see him taking any shit from good ol' Petty Pissed Phil.

[Migs]

7 hours ago, Embrodak said:

So what really is the overlap between WWE and AEW fans? Everybody aware of Punk had a bad taste in their mouth around him just a few months ago, but the reaction to Punk returning has been overwhelmingly positive everywhere I’ve looked, even on Reddit.

I've been fascinated at the number of people I know personally who are AEW fans but still love Punk and are excited for this. Makes me wonder if this really might put a bit of a dent in AEW if this foes well.

[Timbo Slice]

Punk was an actual paradigm shift for the company, pulled in big ratings, and gave it an analogue against WWE doing big business.  People get so hung up on the personality clashes and philosophical differences because it paints the picture of him coming in and breaking up the party the Elite started, but it’s looking more and more that sticking with the Elite over Punk isn’t the winning proposition it was back then.
 

And when you’re trying to win market share and match dollars for dollars on TV contracts, that shit matters. I know folks don’t want it to, but it does, bottom line. Tony betting on the Sport of Professional Wrestling is a losing proposition given the war between sports entertainment and pro wrestling was lost decades ago in the US. And him not being able to control egos and placate everyone screwed up the locker room and cost him millions of dollars when his company really needed it.

WWE just took that and now has the draw for the second show which they desperately needed, is working more internationally to expand their reach, and has their thumb on the scale comparatively when it comes to resources. This is a gap AEW doesn’t really have the know how to close, and a lot of the young talent they’ve tried to hang their hat on are getting lost in the shuffle as the need to ramp up their own homegrown talent grows. And the style they wrestle is just not sustainable given how much injuries have taken out of everyone, even with freak accidents like Cole. Things need to change with AEW, but given who holds sway operationally, there’s little evidence that they’ll get the message. 

[El-P]

4 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

but it’s looking more and more that sticking with the Elite over Punk isn’t the winning proposition it was back then.

Wait, what ?

Punk was brought back after burying the company during the media scrum and Brawl Out. He was given his own TV show that was supposed to be his own little safe place (which did not lasted because CM Punk himself is not even his own self place), with only guys he wanted to work with. If anything, TK clearly choose to stick with Punk then, despite what the Elite would think about it (and while their contracts were ending pretty soon too, with the risk of them leaving).

Then CM Punk jumped the fucking CEO and threatened to not go out to the ring during the biggest show ever... I mean, let's be real now.

[Gramsci]

Let me also add that Omega, Hangman and The Young Bucks debuting at Survivor Series would have been a much harder blow for AEW and the company's identity.

[flyonthewall2983]

I knew it four years ago and I know it now, if TK is put into angles and god forbid a match the company is gone baby gone. This isn’t a fatal blow to anything but the man’s ego perhaps but maybe wisdom can finally emerge at this point in this kind of murky place AEW has become unfortunately. 

[Timbo Slice]

I was talking more about the fight than everything else that happened when Punk came back. That was all a byproduct of not corralling folks from the start when Punk debuted. Not a fan of how Punk acted when he came back given the concessions, but once that snowball was rolling down the hill, it wasn’t stopping. And it begins and ends with Tony wanting to be friends with everyone and placating demands. Including Punk’s. 
 

4 hours ago, Gramsci said:

Let me also add that Omega, Hangman and The Young Bucks debuting at Survivor Series would have been a much harder blow for AEW and the company's identity.

The company hasn’t been centered around the Elite for a while, and even when it was, it was Page going solo until the Punk issues. Omega is doing tags and hasn’t been doing big featured matches nearly as much since the surgeries, and has implied he’s winding down. Hangman has waffled since the Punk shit, some by design, some because of his own (correct) choices to take care of his family. And the Bucks live in a vacuum of which when they step outside of it, aren’t nearly as important to the company as the other two. This phrase would have meant more post-fight than it does now (and probably would have been the best for at least Kenny and the Bucks given Kenny’s injuries and the Bucks needing a jolt badly.)

The choice going forward seems to be Ospreay, and even HE cut promos talking about the toll his style has already taken on him. At 30! Coronation at Wembley is the obvious play, but he also doesn’t know how to hit the stop button on a style that is wrecking him in his prime. And when your company is basically going through an injury epidemic, it’s not a great way forward even if you’re a fan out of the output in between the ropes. 

[Jmare007]

RE: Roman vs Rock.

Rocky implied in that McAfee interview (I think it was in that one at least) that the reason they could never get on the same page and pull the trigger on the match was because Rock wanted something more long term and not just 1 match at Mania. It seemed to me he presented WWE an idea  similar to the Cena year long angle and WWE passed on it.

[KawadaSmile]

I'm telling you guys, he wanted to go over Roman and dip. Delusional.

[Alucard]

From what Rock said in that interview,

"What can we create for the fans that has never been done before in a match? But the bigger thought was, what can we do for the fans in this business that we love where WrestleMania isn't the end of something, it's actually the beginning of something bigger? So we got really really close but we couldn't actually nail what that thing was. So we decided to put our pencils down and then we agreed, hey, listen, there's a merger coming up. Eventually that will happen. There's WrestleMania in Philadelphia...that's a potential too, so I'm open."

[C.S.]

14 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

I'm telling you guys, he wanted to go over Roman and dip. Delusional.

Love you, bubba, but you might be the delusional one. This has never been Rock's M.O. Most unselfish top guy ever.

[KawadaSmile]

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

Love you, bubba, but you might be the delusional one. This has never been Rock's M.O. Most unselfish top guy ever.

He was, yeah. That was almost 30 years ago, bubba. Things change! 

[TheDuke]

5 hours ago, Alucard said:

From what Rock said in that interview,

"What can we create for the fans that has never been done before in a match? But the bigger thought was, what can we do for the fans in this business that we love where WrestleMania isn't the end of something, it's actually the beginning of something bigger? So we got really really close but we couldn't actually nail what that thing was. So we decided to put our pencils down and then we agreed, hey, listen, there's a merger coming up. Eventually that will happen. There's WrestleMania in Philadelphia...that's a potential too, so I'm open."

It sounds like maybe WWE was only willing to pay for Mania (like Austin a couple years ago) and Rock wanted multiple PLE pay days.

[NintendoLogic]

It was my understanding that insurance issues were the main obstacle to Rock working another match. If that's the case, a multi-match series would surely be completely out of the question.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

 

Could warrant its own thread, given there is a few minutes of wrestling talk (and surprisingly accurate for a non-wrestling fan), but it works here with the DJ talk.

[El-P]

5 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

He was, yeah. That was almost 30 years ago, bubba. Things change! 

Yup. No way he's doing a job for Roman on his way to the White House. That would be bad booking.

[KawadaSmile]

2 hours ago, Cowboy Hats 4.0 said:

 

Could warrant its own thread, given there is a few minutes of wrestling talk (and surprisingly accurate for a non-wrestling fan), but it works here with the DJ talk.

I saw this early on, loved it so much. It even talks about how one could see Dwayne's new public persona as a means to get to the presidency - it even expounds on his Hollywood influences like Arnold Schwarzenegger

[The Thread Killer]

7 hours ago, TheDuke said:

Rock wanted multiple PLE pay days.

And so he should. The man clearly has one foot in the poorhouse and is on the verge of insolvency.

[C.S.]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

Yup. No way he's doing a job for Roman on his way to the White House. That would be bad booking.

Donald Trump Jr.: "Dwayne Johnson couldn't beat Roman Reigns. Therefore, he cannot face and defeat America's enemies. He is unfit to lead!"

[NintendoLogic]

I'm fine with a blanket rule of not allowing anyone who has taken a stunner from Steve Austin to become president.

[JRH]

3 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I'm fine with a blanket rule of not allowing anyone who has taken a stunner from Steve Austin to become president.

Well, there goes any chance of President Kurt Angle. But seriously IF Dwayne runs for President, you just know candidates will use his attitude era promos against him (did any of Jesse's opponents use some of his more politically incorrect lines against him, or were they not as readily accessible at the time?).

[Robert S]

48 minutes ago, JRH said:

Well, there goes any chance of President Kurt Angle. But seriously IF Dwayne runs for President, you just know candidates will use his attitude era promos against him (did any of Jesse's opponents use some of his more politically incorrect lines against him, or were they not as readily accessible at the time?).

AFAIR, his Democratic and Republic opponents did not take him that seriously, mostly concentrating on each others. Ventura was down by 15% or so in polls up to the very end.

The whole idea of using a movie career to work towards a presidency is so bizarre to me. Johnson has absolutely zero political experience, AFAIK wiggles out on any questions about political stances, and the only skills he would bring to the job are being able to convincingly read from a teleprompter and smile into a camera. Okay, the bar for presidency seems to be as low as ever now with next years' election likely being between a fragile, maybe close to senile octogenarian, a sociopath (who also seems to be a complete moron - and would turn 80 during a presidency as well) and an insane conspiracy theorist.

[Blehschmidt]

3 hours ago, Robert S said:

AFAIR, his Democratic and Republic opponents did not take him that seriously, mostly concentrating on each others. Ventura was down by 15% or so in polls up to the very end.

The whole idea of using a movie career to work towards a presidency is so bizarre to me. Johnson has absolutely zero political experience, AFAIK wiggles out on any questions about political stances, and the only skills he would bring to the job are being able to convincingly read from a teleprompter and smile into a camera. Okay, the bar for presidency seems to be as low as ever now with next years' election likely being between a fragile, maybe close to senile octogenarian, a sociopath (who also seems to be a complete moron - and would turn 80 during a presidency as well) and an insane conspiracy theorist.

Trump had zero political experience and hoodwinked millions into drinking his kool-aid, and a portion of them think he is some kind of god.

So, I have zero doubt Rocky could smile and promo his way into get the votes of some people.

[KawadaSmile]

Ronald Reagan was a Hollywood actor prior to being president. There's precedence!

[Jmare007]

12 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

It was my understanding that insurance issues were the main obstacle to Rock working another match. If that's the case, a multi-match series would surely be completely out of the question.

If Rock is to be believed that wasn't an issue, surprisingly so.