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Dave Meltzer stuff

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2 hours ago, Strummer said:

I was asked "is ECW real?" countless times in the 90s by lapsed or casual fans I knew 

People tend to think anything with tons of blood is at least "more real", which it kind of is in a way.  I also recall around when the Secrets of Wrestling type shows in the 90s leading to JR yelling about guys "learning how to fall" during dangerous  highspots as a way of both mocking those shows and implying what you're watching is "real". 

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My cousin- bless him- isn't the sharpest tool in the box, and believed for several years that ECW was real. Occasionally you would see the point of reasoning kick in during some of the stupider shit they pulled but he really thought this was just some anything goes group of nutcases. I'm quite jealous of that in a way. 

Interesting now, as it's gone the other way with me- I watch far more MMA than wrestling these days but I think there are far more fixed outcomes in it than anyone dares let on. 

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On 6/10/2019 at 10:59 AM, Migs said:

I think the particular problem is that the line of logic isn't "I'm going to have a great match!" it's "I'm going to have a great match based on the prescribed set of standards set by one guy." 

It's a double whammy.

Dave is much more than a movie critic, too. He's like Bill James from baseball. They both kept track of stats, created new philosophies, found hidden gems, created new standards, and wound up dramatically changing their industries forever. Current GMs or bookers grew up reading them. There was a time when on base % was never even talked about in baseball, but James was the one who campaigned for it in the early 1980s and ran computer simulations about it, showing how you could score more runs. In the 2000s players are seen as being more valuable for walking and getting hit by a pitch.

Shawn Michaels was the first U.S. guy I really remember who wanted to "steal the show" with highspots regardless of context and tried to win MOTN. Shane Douglas tried to do that in ECW as well (ha). The cruiserweights in WCW and ECW also did (and succeeded).

But nowadays? The last Takeover. Seemed like Shawn and Triple H in the back wanted to actually wanted Takeover to have a better star average than Double or Nothing. One of the best things about AEW is that they build the cards like boxing or UFC- the undercard is technically skippable and things heat up for the last three matches. True fans can appreciate the undercard with solid matches and excellent character work. But everyone went all out on Takeover- no warming up the crowd or building.

Dave never takes any responsibility for his influence on the way modern wrestlers work. He's on the autism spectrum when confronted about it. He would have given the Ibushi match a super high rating but Bryan had already shit on it the second before he did on that podcast. 

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15 hours ago, War is Raw said:

He's on the autism spectrum when confronted about it.

Please, let's not use that term, especially for stupid shit like this. 

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17 minutes ago, El-P said:

Please, let's not use that term, especially for stupid shit like this. 

Agreed.  I thought this place was above the idiots and clowns who spout shit like this on Twitter.

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On 7/12/2019 at 2:14 AM, Steve T said:

 

I can't figure out the difference between very real and somewhat real. 

I think "somewhat real" is not a completely wrong way to classify pro wrestling. The results are predeterminated etc. but the blood, sweat and tears are (more often than not) as real as it gets.

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