Dave Meltzer stuff

[Grimmas]

"Watch this match." "Where are the tits?" would have been a bad story.

 

"Watch this match." "Holy crap, this is incredible. I can't believe this athleticism. These girls are amazing. But where are the tits?" was a funny story.

The first one was what was related in the thread. The second one was not.

[Steenalized]

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

[Grimmas]

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

 

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

[Steenalized]

That post is pretty evident that you're not exactly not sensitive. I don't know what views you hold right now will end up being laughable to younger generations decades from now. I'm not magic. How do you not see the humor in an old woman asking a crude question, particularly one that marks her as dated and behind the times? Dave didn't tell the story as a "haha, you sure are right," type of story either. She has become the punchline. Actually, you not even seeing the humor in it isn't an issue, it's your inability to even grasp why others might find it funny, then assert that everyone else is patently wrong. Get off the high horse, I guarantee you that you use some term or have some thought that is offensive or demeaning to someone somewhere. Hopefully you have enough stores of righteous indignation to immediately drop that and change, or maybe realize that humor isn't 100% a form of oppression. Some of what you say is true, but it isn't so cut and dry.

 

Sorry guys, PWO, I'll end my comments on that topic there.

[Grimmas]

PWO, I have to stay on topic so I will ride off on my high horse and continue to judge everyone, because that is, apparently, who I am.

[Grimmas]

I figured out how to block people. Greatest day ever!

[Jesse Ewiak]

Grimmas, I'm a hardcore feminist SJW PC anti-racist whatever sort of guy. But sometimes, a joke is just a joke.

[Grimmas]

Grimmas, I'm a hardcore feminist SJW PC anti-racist whatever sort of guy. But sometimes, a joke is just a joke.

 

Yes. The way this was defended as awesome and hilarious was because an old lady said sexist things I just pointed out how insane it is to give old people a pass.

 

Anyways the people who I acted in ways I disliked are blocked from me, so let's move on. If you want to debate me on allowing people to make prejudice jokes, look me up on facebook. Steven Graham from Toronto.

[W2BTD]

 

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

 

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

 

 

Nearly choked to death at "women only make 70% of what men make". Utter nonsense. Exaggerated sensationalism like this ends up ruining valid social concerns.

 

Anyway, you sound like you're a real blast at parties or while shooting the shit at the water cooler. Jokes are jokes. Anything can be funny. Context always matters. Some people can handle edgy humor and aren't hyper cynical or black/white regarding intent. You obviously are the extreme opposite. But beware. It's a long fall from that pedestal of yours.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

 

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

 

 

Nearly choked to death at "women only make 70% of what men make". Utter nonsense. Exaggerated sensationalism like this ends up ruining valid social concerns.

 

Anyway, you sound like you're a real blast at parties or while shooting the shit at the water cooler. Jokes are jokes. Anything can be funny. Context always matters. Some people can handle edgy humor and aren't hyper cynical or black/white regarding intent. You obviously are the extreme opposite. But beware. It's a long fall from that pedestal of yours.

 

If you knew me for one second you would know how insanely ridiculous you sound right now.

 

EDIT: 70% seems off. It's probably closer to 84% on average, which is wrong none the less. If it's not equal, there is a problem.

[W2BTD]

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

 

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

 

 

Nearly choked to death at "women only make 70% of what men make". Utter nonsense. Exaggerated sensationalism like this ends up ruining valid social concerns.

 

Anyway, you sound like you're a real blast at parties or while shooting the shit at the water cooler. Jokes are jokes. Anything can be funny. Context always matters. Some people can handle edgy humor and aren't hyper cynical or black/white regarding intent. You obviously are the extreme opposite. But beware. It's a long fall from that pedestal of yours.

 

If you knew me for one second you would know how insanely ridiculous you sound right now.

 

 

That may be true, but your coming off super uptight in this thread. And I'm obviously not the only one who sees it that way.

[TravJ1979]

99% of comedy is not PC.

[goodhelmet]

99% of comedy isn't funny... as evident by all of the bad movies that are labelled as comedy in Netflix.

[Slasher]

[TravJ1979]

I was really referring to stand-up, but yeah comedy is a relative term I suppose. I just smell a rat when someone says they don't chuckle at the occasional politically incorrect joke or remark. Doing so doesn't make you sexist, a homophobic bigot, or a racist. I mean, Facebook and Twitter were built on that.

[Mad Dog]

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

 

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

Nearly choked to death at "women only make 70% of what men make". Utter nonsense. Exaggerated sensationalism like this ends up ruining valid social concerns.

 

Anyway, you sound like you're a real blast at parties or while shooting the shit at the water cooler. Jokes are jokes. Anything can be funny. Context always matters. Some people can handle edgy humor and aren't hyper cynical or black/white regarding intent. You obviously are the extreme opposite. But beware. It's a long fall from that pedestal of yours.

If you knew me for one second you would know how insanely ridiculous you sound right now.

 

EDIT: 70% seems off. It's probably closer to 84% on average, which is wrong none the less. If it's not equal, there is a problem.

It's more like 96% and exists because men are willing to work more hours, more dangerous jobs, etc. It's almost entirely about different choices. But I could go get my mother who used to work when you used to make less for being a woman. But I doubt you would find her opinion agreeable.

 

My grandmother also used to use not PC language for black people. She wasn't a racist, she was just 80 years old.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

Nearly choked to death at "women only make 70% of what men make". Utter nonsense. Exaggerated sensationalism like this ends up ruining valid social concerns.

 

Anyway, you sound like you're a real blast at parties or while shooting the shit at the water cooler. Jokes are jokes. Anything can be funny. Context always matters. Some people can handle edgy humor and aren't hyper cynical or black/white regarding intent. You obviously are the extreme opposite. But beware. It's a long fall from that pedestal of yours.

If you knew me for one second you would know how insanely ridiculous you sound right now.

 

EDIT: 70% seems off. It's probably closer to 84% on average, which is wrong none the less. If it's not equal, there is a problem.

It's more like 96% and exists because men are willing to work more hours, more dangerous jobs, etc. It's almost entirely about different choices. But I could go get my mother who used to work when you used to make less for being a woman. But I doubt you would find her opinion agreeable.

 

My grandmother also used to use not PC language for black people. She wasn't a racist, she was just 80 years old.

 

Pro Wrestling Only, let's move the fuck on from this sexist bullshit please.

[LariatMMBOPPO]

 

 

Dave probably would had been better off if he joined with the Torch's website instead of with f4weekly.

 

The time for that was back in 1999/2000 before the years wasted with his other website, but... Yes.

 

Didn't Dave say what he and Wade did were different?

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

Dave probably would had been better off if he joined with the Torch's website instead of with f4weekly.

 

The time for that was back in 1999/2000 before the years wasted with his other website, but... Yes.

 

Didn't Dave say what he and Wade did were different?

 

Did he?

 

I wonder what that means, I am curious.

[LariatMMBOPPO]

MIKE: Do you consider those guys to be your competition? What are your opinions on what Wade Keller has done with the Torch, and you mentioned Bryan --?

MELTZER: I think Wade Keller is a good businessman. I don't think ... in a sense you could say he's competition, and I don't consider him to be competition, because I don't consider what he does and what I do are all that similar. To me The Torch is more geared for --- it's kind of like a USA Today and a New York Times thing ... to me. The Torch is kind of geared towards a more casual audience, it's not really as ... and I don't want to knock it, but it's geared towards a more casual audience. Except for Bruce Mitchell's stuff, there's nothing really ... any deep analysis in there. Wade Keller sometimes does deep analysis pieces, but like the headline stories and stuff, just by the nature of how his headline stories are just basically going to be the first page, and mine can go on for pages and pages.

I have the luxury by not being laid out in a professional manner to go on and on and on, and be a lot more deeper in the stories. I think The Observer is more for people who really want to know in depth what's going on. I think that it's the only one, because Bryan Alvarez only has 4 pages - he doesn't have the space to be doing this. Wade Keller has the space, but the way he formats it, he really doesn't have the space. Every now and then he could do the space when he wants to, and when he wants to he can do a really good job. But as far as in depth of the major stories, it's just a different thing. I have the luxury of going more in depth and my coverage is more international, because that's just how The Observer is. His is more of the Big 3 in the United States, which is maybe more marketable to more people in some ways, but to me, the world is the world, I'm not just trying to write ... I'm writing for people who are hardcore wrestling fans who want to learn about wrestling, and I think that he's writing for people who just kind of want to know the news, but not necessarily learn a lot more.

 

 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/classic-wrestling/1351194-1999-interview-dave-meltzer.html

[Hawkeye12]

Interesting to read that considering Dave is adamant about beating the drum every time WWE says it doesn't consider UFC competition.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty calm, I do find it weird that some old person asking why girls don't have boobs (not being aware that all women are not sexual objects) is a great and funny story and why Dave Metlzer felt the need to share it and others felt the need to mention it as something to listen to.

Probably because not everyone is so sensitive like you. And because someday you'll probably have antiquated views that young people find humorous, just like always.

I'm not sensitive. I'm just sick of complete bullshit sexist/racist/homophobia etc.. behaviour. Just because its passive or passed as a joke, does not mean it is not detrimental to society.

 

What views will I have that will be humourous to young people when mine change base on knowledge/reason and being kind to others? There was a time I made gay jokes. I don't anymore. There was a time I would laugh at transgender people, I don't anymore. Things change as you educate yourself on the facts and those views never become laughable. If kids of the future will accept new things that I don't currently and there is reason for it, I will accept them too. I'm not stuck in some box based on my age and nor should anyone else be.

 

This whole attitude that it is ok to put yourself above others is fine is complete and utter bullshit. Racism isn't funny, because it hurts people. Anti-women jokes aren't funny, because they are harassed like crazy and only make 70% of what men make. Homophobia isn't funny, because in most States there is no marriage equality. Joking around about this stuff only allows it to continue.

 

If someone says an old person made some weird comment about a girl not having boobs and somebody thinks that is a great/hilarious story. It is bullshit. End of story.

 

If that wasn't the story. then present the story properly and not in some sexist manner. If somebody said the story was at stated later, then not one person would think anything of it.

Nearly choked to death at "women only make 70% of what men make". Utter nonsense. Exaggerated sensationalism like this ends up ruining valid social concerns.

 

Anyway, you sound like you're a real blast at parties or while shooting the shit at the water cooler. Jokes are jokes. Anything can be funny. Context always matters. Some people can handle edgy humor and aren't hyper cynical or black/white regarding intent. You obviously are the extreme opposite. But beware. It's a long fall from that pedestal of yours.

If you knew me for one second you would know how insanely ridiculous you sound right now.

 

EDIT: 70% seems off. It's probably closer to 84% on average, which is wrong none the less. If it's not equal, there is a problem.

It's more like 96% and exists because men are willing to work more hours, more dangerous jobs, etc. It's almost entirely about different choices. But I could go get my mother who used to work when you used to make less for being a woman. But I doubt you would find her opinion agreeable.

 

My grandmother also used to use not PC language for black people. She wasn't a racist, she was just 80 years old.

 

 

[BigBadMick]

 

MIKE: Do you consider those guys to be your competition? What are your opinions on what Wade Keller has done with the Torch, and you mentioned Bryan --?

MELTZER: I think Wade Keller is a good businessman. I don't think ... in a sense you could say he's competition, and I don't consider him to be competition, because I don't consider what he does and what I do are all that similar. To me The Torch is more geared for --- it's kind of like a USA Today and a New York Times thing ... to me. The Torch is kind of geared towards a more casual audience, it's not really as ... and I don't want to knock it, but it's geared towards a more casual audience. Except for Bruce Mitchell's stuff, there's nothing really ... any deep analysis in there. Wade Keller sometimes does deep analysis pieces, but like the headline stories and stuff, just by the nature of how his headline stories are just basically going to be the first page, and mine can go on for pages and pages.

I have the luxury by not being laid out in a professional manner to go on and on and on, and be a lot more deeper in the stories. I think The Observer is more for people who really want to know in depth what's going on. I think that it's the only one, because Bryan Alvarez only has 4 pages - he doesn't have the space to be doing this. Wade Keller has the space, but the way he formats it, he really doesn't have the space. Every now and then he could do the space when he wants to, and when he wants to he can do a really good job. But as far as in depth of the major stories, it's just a different thing. I have the luxury of going more in depth and my coverage is more international, because that's just how The Observer is. His is more of the Big 3 in the United States, which is maybe more marketable to more people in some ways, but to me, the world is the world, I'm not just trying to write ... I'm writing for people who are hardcore wrestling fans who want to learn about wrestling, and I think that he's writing for people who just kind of want to know the news, but not necessarily learn a lot more.

 

 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/classic-wrestling/1351194-1999-interview-dave-meltzer.html

 

Has Meltzer ever said anything further about the Torch since 1999? He had Bruce Mitchel on to discuss Dusty recently, so I assume they're on civil terms.

[Parties]

The context of the Combs thing was really clear from the story being told. She wasn’t saying, “These women should have bigger tits.” She was saying that she came into the business in a time and place in which her bookers expected women to have a certain bust, and was pleasantly surprised that things have changed. Combs wasn’t regressively arguing against the Crush Girls’ bodies. She was saying - from the perspective of someone who actually lived through and endured sexism - that she was impressed that wrestling had taken a cultural step forward.

If you don’t find the story funny, fine. I don’t think it’s brilliant or hilarious, but to suggest that the story is sexist (or that Combs was saying something offensive because she’s old) is a misread of the situation. In fact, one could argue that misread itself is a bit ageist against her, in implying that she’s out of touch because she’s old, and equating her with the aforementioned “Off Their Rockers” Betty White-style caricature. But by the same token, I can understand that it comes from a place of good intentions, and the nature of hearing a story secondhand (or third or fourthhand).

Re: the gender pay gap percentages that are often thrown around - it’s more complex than simply saying “70 percent”. Those figures have been discredited in different studies over the years (most would say it’s more like 85-90%, and that it’s entirely circumstantial to every unique person and job, depending on the context). Even in instances where you’re comparing a man and woman with the same role and qualifications (an imaginary hypothetical that is almost impossible to create in real life), you still have to account for childcare options, racism, systemic discrimination of inadequate family-leave policies, and women stereotypically serving as the caretakers in their home/family at large. It isn’t so much that women are being paid less to do the same work, as it is that prejudices keep them from ever having the opportunity to do what could be called “the same work.”

[Grimmas]

The context of the Combs thing was really clear from the story being told. She wasn’t saying, “These women should have bigger tits.” She was saying that she came into the business in a time and place in which her bookers expected women to have a certain bust, and was pleasantly surprised that things have changed. Combs wasn’t regressively arguing against the Crush Girls’ bodies. She was saying - from the perspective of someone who actually lived through and endured sexism - that she was impressed that wrestling had taken a cultural step forward.

 

If you don’t find the story funny, fine. I don’t think it’s brilliant or hilarious, but to suggest that the story is sexist (or that Combs was saying something offensive because she’s old) is a misread of the situation. In fact, one could argue that misread itself is a bit ageist against her, in implying that she’s out of touch because she’s old, and equating her with the aforementioned “Off Their Rockers” Betty White-style caricature. But by the same token, I can understand that it comes from a place of good intentions, and the nature of hearing a story secondhand (or third or fourthhand).

I completely agree with everything you said. Unfortunately all that was stated was some weird comments about tits and it being a hilarious and great story. In that context everything is fine.