Loss Posted July 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Does Dave care at all about the sport's integrity? Even a little? I ask this because I am not an MMA fan and usually skim past his WON coverage of it, but he always seems to talk about things in business terms, almost to an extremist level. I've never seen a baseball, football or basketball journalist use that same framework to discuss those sports, so it's not something I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's just like pro wrestling to him, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 He doesn't cover it as a sport, but as a business. Which thank god, because the parrallels to wrestling are the only reason I can muster any interest in discussion of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 He's said in the past that he wishes MMA run more like a sport sold better to the public. But MMA with pro wrestling-type booking is what makes money and it's a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 The most upsetting thing to me is that Meltzer (and others) is (are) just totally overlooking the health of Jose Aldo. I love combat sports, but let's be honest about them: they are brutal. Aldo, if he would have gone through with this, would have been drained from a drastic weight cut, been weakened from a fractured rib, would have been put in such a vulnerable position against someone who would take advantage of all that and go for the kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 THAT is a 73 word sentence. Wow. "Meltzer Sentence" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Dave's praise of Dominion on the show with Semp was some of his most ridiculously blinkered NJPW fanboyism yet. Apparently it would have been a great show even if the Okada/AJ match hadn't been on the card, and the reason Makabe/Ishii was so sloppy is because they were doing 'next level' psychology to make you think the match was going off the rails because Ishii was legitimately hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Haha stoked to listen to the show because nothing beats Dave going off on history which the mailbag permits, but this was not that kind of blowaway though. Makabe/Ishii thoroughly did nothing for me and I'm a huge Ishii guy. Loved the main event and thought it was a legit MOTYC and even enjoyed Nak/Goto more than possibly any Goto match I've ever seen. But this was not my GOAT show. All that aside, I'm still grateful that Dave finds things to enjoy and rave about in wrestling. I could so easily see him having the joy sucked out of wrestling on countless occasions over the years so its great to see him enthused. Now about that MMA stuf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Apparently it would have been a great show even if the Okada/AJ match hadn't been on the card, and the reason Makabe/Ishii was so sloppy is because they were doing 'next level' psychology to make you think the match was going off the rails because Ishii was legitimately hurt. This is flat out ridiculous. How is that supposed to excuse the strike exchange between them where Makabe has about 10 punches in a row that clearly go over Ishii's head while Ishii actually makes his shit look decent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-nh8mhewe4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-nh8mhewe4 Ishi-Makabe a new dimension of believability. Holy shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seriously think that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard Dave say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seriously think that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard Dave say. The criticism of Cesaro-Cena was pretty stupid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seriously think that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard Dave say. I don't even watch New Japan and I watched the Makabe/Ishii match because of how badly people shit on Makabe's strikes. For Dave to try and dance around giving any criticism of that match by saying "well maybe they planned to make stuff look bad so people would think Ishii is really hurt" is absurd. This is the type of ridiculous fanboy stuff that he would laugh at and mock on twitter if it was coming from the TNAMecca people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Meta Meltzer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LariatMMBOPPO Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 (I haven't seen the match. I haven't listened to the WOR podcast. This is based simply on that clip. If there's more to it, feel free to call me out on it.) Someone pointed out that it's great that Dave can still find fun and be a fan after all these years and I agree. While there's probably plenty of guys on this board alone that have watched almost as much or as long as Dave has, the fact he can find enjoyment in something that helped contribute to a lot of people who he knew personally dying, developing crippling addictions, committing murder, suicide and various other things is almost bizarre. Everyone has biases and preferences and it's understandable he enjoys the more athletically inclined Japanese styles over the at times formulaic and plastic WWE product.That justification though...add a few "bros" in there and it would sound downright Russo-ian. Those were sub-level 'Shane McMahon beating up Randy Orton' strikes. I find it hard to imagine that if it weren't New Japan that he would bother defending it at all. Did he (hopefully) state "this isn't fake like everything else is" matches, even implied, are uniformly horrible and add nothing positive to the product being promoted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Seriously think that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard Dave say. And this was after him basically trying to justify why Jose Aldo should fight with bruised ribs and do the job for the good of the business. The idea that he trumped that is amazing. The idea that Makabe has been faking being a below average guy for at least 5 years would make him of the best workers in the world if true. So yeah no. It reminds of me when Cena was crushing the Rock in promos for the first WM match and him and others were doing the same "he is sucking on purpose to be on Cena's level" spiel and it was so sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 "supposed to suck" was also used for Shawn in the JBL program in 2009. I don't remember if Dave used it but pretty sure Bryan did. I can remember Dylan going off on it at DVDVR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Ha! Let’s assume for a minute that either before or during the match, Ishii and Makabe decided they were going to make it appear the match was falling apart as a way of getting over that Ishii was injured. How is that a good thing? That’s the funniest part of it to me. The idea that they were having a sloppy match on purpose is wacky enough, but the idea that doing so was this great “next level” way of selling a shoulder is bonkers. If Makabe whiffing on forearm strikes by six inches is some newfangled way to get over Ishii’s shoulder injury, than wrestling has passed me by. Thankfully its almost certainly just a nutty Meltzer theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 This too: https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/622295278146588672 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 He must not go to WWE events with that replica belts line. That is still a thing in 2015. A stupid thing but a thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 A friend of mine performed on a stand up comedy show that also featured Rob Van Dam doing a stand up set and someone brought a replica belt to THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Okay I am largely in agreement with Meltz on how the WWE is viewing Ring of Honor right now. But the idea that there was 7 or 8 ring apron shots in this PPV because it is related to Ring of Honor is almost as serious stretch as the Makabe "high level of work" for having a shitty match against Ishii theory. Besides nobody is that stupid to think "if we can only get these ring apron bumps then ROH fans will stop watching their product" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I don't think it's a stretch to think that WWE may have told workers/agents to work in more indie style spots. I doubt Dave would say something like that if he hadn't heard something from someone, or more likely several people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Meltz was correct but the idea that ring apron spots = Ring of Honor/indy wrestling is just beyond stupid. Now 5 - 10 super kicks a match = Ring of Honor/indy wrestling wouldn't be that unrealistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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