Dave Meltzer stuff

[Sean Liska]

I do remember seeing a WON recap from this site from around 84 where he said Memphis and Mid-South were the only things keeping him watching American wrestling. So he wasn't that negative during the good days.

[...TG]

Dave's probably just jealous of Bill Dundee's sweet ride:

[goc]

I don't think Dave hated Alabama wrestling. It's just that when you're tracking 15-20 promotions and watching a ton of stuff in 1982-85 before everything started dying, where would Bama rate? Especially since it's not like main event stuff was as easy to get your hands on as it was with other promotions. Hence "didn't care for" - it just didn't rate all that high.

 

Though I'm sure there are folks who loved the Fullers and Armstrongs more than anything in the world.

I'd rate it really high on promos and in the Continental era (1985-1986) the matches on TV were actually pretty good. The lack of any real arena footage or anything other than TV squash matches during the Southeastern days is a real bummer though.

 

I don't even know how much footage Dave was getting from that area though because the gaps in what I have in my collection seem to kind of line up with the times where he has barely any coverage of the territory.

[Sidebottom]

LMAO at that car! That's hilarious!

[Dylan Waco]

I saw Edge and Randy Orton live too many times to be enamored of them.

[hammerva]

The Bob Backlund interview is really good. It wasn't crazy Bob that everyone expects it is just Bob with his own opinion and ways to do things. Sure he says things that are considered crazy like banning punches in MMA, rather drinking beer instead of soda cause of his problem with sugar, etc but he wasn't saying like a promo.

[kjh]

One of the stark contrasts on the recent Hall of Fame podcast was Dave burying JYD for his lack of longevity, while giving the big push to "Super Nice Adulterer" Edge. Yes, Edge who only really became a HoF level star in early 2006 and was forced to retire just over 5 years later. If you're looking at him more as a work candidate, then you can get a bit more juice out, but not as much as you'd think, between his lengthy layoffs due to injury and not really being all that great outside of stunt matches until the spring of 2002.

[goc]

I think saying JYD suffers from a "lack of longevity" is a bit dubious considering his run as the top star of Mid-South was a little over 4 years (early 1980 to mid 1984) and then he was frequently in the main event on non-Hogan cards for about 2-3 years in the WWF.

[Jmare007]

Not the best week of reporting by Dave. He got worked on Del Rio's contract and mixed up a former Tough Enough contestant with a "very troubling" past.

[Wade Garrett]

What JYD did in Louisiana and Mississippi was fuckin mind-boggling for it's time. Especially the first half of his run. That area of Tri-States was dead on it's ass for the most part. Not to mention it wasn't an economical hot bed. He blended cultural/racial lines for one. He also drew MASSIVE TV ratings/market shares. Which in-turn drew live around the horn.

 

He was decent enough in the ring. Combine that with his great charisma, physical presence, and promos and you have someone who trumps most.

 

Edge was a fuckin turd compared to JYD. The JYD of then coulda stepped into the spot Edge held but as a baby and circled him in his own era. Edge wouldn't of been able to do the same.

 

What JYD did in a NEW company in that era was fuckin difficult. Watts was great and had vision. His vision was JYD. Without him Mid-South may not of made the impact it did. Or any at all.

 

When I lived in the territory JYD was gone. I only had the opportunity to hear my Buds in the area tell the tales in the early 80's. Sounded like place I woulda wanted to be at the time more then anywhere but JCP (where I was for the most part) or Georgia.

[goodhelmet]

Not the best week of reporting by Dave. He got worked on Del Rio's contract and mixed up a former Tough Enough contestant with a "very troubling" past.

 

How did he get worked on the contract? Explain.

[sek69]

The Bob Backlund interview is really good. It wasn't crazy Bob that everyone expects it is just Bob with his own opinion and ways to do things. Sure he says things that are considered crazy like banning punches in MMA, rather drinking beer instead of soda cause of his problem with sugar, etc but he wasn't saying like a promo.

 

 

Not the best week of reporting by Dave. He got worked on Del Rio's contract and mixed up a former Tough Enough contestant with a "very troubling" past.

 

How did he get worked on the contract? Explain.

 

 

 

Reported his downside as 1.4 million when it was really around 500k, Dave posted on the board he triple sourced his story but found out all three sources were being worked by Alberto.

[Parties]

If Meltzer thinks you're a bad worker, you'll likely never make the HOF. He's made JYD out to be one of the most glaring examples of "over act who couldn't work at all", while downplaying the length of his peak run and box office. I've never heard him bring up the positive racial impact of his run. From the way Dave talks about him both now and in old newsletters, you'd think he was among the worst in-ring ever. I would guess he hasn't watched a full JYD match in 25 years, so not sure what he'd say about them now. Also not sure if Dog is someone who Meltzer recognizes should be a contender, or if he's someone for whom people of that era/region lobby.

[funkdoc]

i think another part of it is meltzer's hatred of hulkamania WWF, where JYD was pretty high-profile and legitimately as awful as dave says he was

 

it's like he became one of the symbols of The Death of Wrestling in that era for the WON crowd, and his time in mid-south was inadvertently retconned to be a sort of harbinger of all that

[PhilTLL]

 

Reported his downside as 1.4 million when it was really around 500k, Dave posted on the board he triple sourced his story but found out all three sources were being worked by Alberto.

 

 

That is delicious.

[kjh]

 

 

Reported his downside as 1.4 million when it was really around 500k, Dave posted on the board he triple sourced his story but found out all three sources were being worked by Alberto.

 

 

That is delicious.

 

 

It's especially ironic given that he reported that Carlito had been lowballed on a contract offer by WWE a few weeks ago.

[Parties]

Story of this week is that Del Rio is smarter than everyone thought. His stock has risen, AAA is a bridge that can be burned and rebuilt a hundred times over, and he's now the latest example - and best in recent memory - of Vince only respecting those with the stones to tell him to go to hell.

[jdw]

If Meltzer thinks you're a bad worker, you'll likely never make the HOF. He's made JYD out to be one of the most glaring examples of "over act who couldn't work at all", while downplaying the length of his peak run and box office. I've never heard him bring up the positive racial impact of his run. From the way Dave talks about him both now and in old newsletters, you'd think he was among the worst in-ring ever. I would guess he hasn't watched a full JYD match in 25 years, so not sure what he'd say about them now. Also not sure if Dog is someone who Meltzer recognizes should be a contender, or if he's someone for whom people of that era/region lobby.

 

Dave put people in the HOF that he thought were bad workers. So if current voters don't vote for bad workers, it's their own fault, not Dave's.

[Beast]

 

 

Reported his downside as 1.4 million when it was really around 500k, Dave posted on the board he triple sourced his story but found out all three sources were being worked by Alberto.

 

 

That is delicious.

 

 

Why do people enjoy Dave being worked? That's as strange a case of schadenfreude that I've seen.

[ragemaster]

The Bob Backlund interview is really good. It wasn't crazy Bob that everyone expects it is just Bob with his own opinion and ways to do things. Sure he says things that are considered crazy like banning punches in MMA, rather drinking beer instead of soda cause of his problem with sugar, etc but he wasn't saying like a promo.

 

 

He's not wrong on the sugar, its got so bad in the UK because of strain it puts on the NHS.

With obesity and diabetes now appearing in kids much earlier, as well as adults, there's talk of putting a tax on sugar.

Its not just in soda, its put into most foods as well, so its a real problem.

 

As for punching in MMA, it would kill the sport but he's 100% right not to watch for moral reasons.

As we all know by now, the long term damage repeated blows to head causes.

[...TG]

 

The Bob Backlund interview is really good. It wasn't crazy Bob that everyone expects it is just Bob with his own opinion and ways to do things. Sure he says things that are considered crazy like banning punches in MMA, rather drinking beer instead of soda cause of his problem with sugar, etc but he wasn't saying like a promo.

 

 

He's not wrong on the sugar, its got so bad in the UK because of strain it puts on the NHS.

With obesity and diabetes now appearing in kids much earlier, as well as adults, there's talk of putting a tax on sugar.

Its not just in soda, its put into most foods as well, so its a real problem.

 

As for punching in MMA, it would kill the sport but he's 100% right not to watch for moral reasons.

As we all know by now, the long term damage repeated blows to head causes.

 

Do you feel the same way about pro wrestling? Hell, a simple bump taken flat on the back is a blow to the head, not to mention a fairly common move like a power bomb is probably worse.

[ragemaster]

Yes, with all the deaths in wrestling your be a fool not to think wrestling should be banned.

Not even thinking off the wrestlers who have died, but the family's left behind.

 

I also know it was morally wrong, when Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin was marketed to kids.

 

But I still watch it, as I'm an adult with no kids and I put my enjoyment of wrestling above what I know to be morally right.

 

As I've been told, my morals aren't the best lol

 

But in the above post, I was pointing out that Bob Backlund was right in his belief not to watch MMA.

Because of the brain damage it can cause in its fighters.

 

I watch MMA by the way, so I'm saying that Bob's a better man than me for not watching it.

[Loss]

 

In general though, Dave is prejudiced against southern territorial wrestling.

 

Which is why he liked the Mid Atlantic territory, loved his summers in Florida watching that territory, and spoke highly of Georgia. He was in Texas at its peak, and has praised the era for decades while admitting the flaws/errors/fuckton of dope. He loved WattsLand.

 

On the flip side, he didn't care for the Alabama promotion, though it wasn't widely traded. And he was up-and-down on Memphis.

 

4 that he loved/praised. One that he was mixed about. One he generally ignored.

 

That's before getting into SMW that he liked before it started to fade/fall.

 

Dave's pretty okay with southern wrestling. He had other issues with Memphis.

 

 

Also, Dave covered Jarrett Promotions to the bitter end, after a decade of poor houses and long after they ceased being relevant. That's more than he does for groups that do decent business today that he actually likes. If anything, Dave has favoritism *toward* the Memphis style. His continued coverage of it throughout the 1990s bears that out.

[Parties]

 

If Meltzer thinks you're a bad worker, you'll likely never make the HOF. He's made JYD out to be one of the most glaring examples of "over act who couldn't work at all", while downplaying the length of his peak run and box office. I've never heard him bring up the positive racial impact of his run. From the way Dave talks about him both now and in old newsletters, you'd think he was among the worst in-ring ever. I would guess he hasn't watched a full JYD match in 25 years, so not sure what he'd say about them now. Also not sure if Dog is someone who Meltzer recognizes should be a contender, or if he's someone for whom people of that era/region lobby.

 

Dave put people in the HOF that he thought were bad workers. So if current voters don't vote for bad workers, it's their own fault, not Dave's.

 

 

I'm saying for the current nominees going forward. There have been slam dunk candidates who he doesn't like as workers - I would guess you're referring to guys like Hogan, Rock, maybe Mascaras (not sure of his opinion on him). Out of the 200 people in the HOF, those are the only 3 that look like people he might not like in-ring, and I suspect that he would recognize that they were all good at certain things and more importantly are undeniable as candidates.

 

Maybe Dave's lobbying for/against certain people doesn't affect the voting as much as I'd guess, esp. for non-English speakers who wouldn't be listening to his podcasts or reading the Observer, but how many such people even get a ballot? Point being that constantly harping on JYD becomes gospel to many fans, including many of those given ballots. Ditto the idea that a Fujiwara shouldn't be on the ballot, even though people ask about it often. Dave doesn't view his matches as transcendent or influential the way many of us do, and brings up things like not being a perennial main eventer in New Japan (ignoring UWF and the UWF-NJ feud) or someone like Minoru Suzuki not liking him as a boss in PWFG as reasons to dismiss him.

 

That all said, I don't think he's wrong to say who he thinks should/shouldn't be in, and would only hope people take it with a grain of salt. And I am curious if there are other notable cases of people he doesn't like but still put on.

[PhilTLL]

Why do people enjoy Dave being worked? That's as strange a case of schadenfreude that I've seen.

For the same reason it's enjoyable when Professor Harold Hill gets one over on the mayor (though perhaps Meltzer is more like Marian). If you don't get a kick out of a guy feeding disinformation to three different people to improve his bargaining position and work the only journalist in wrestling along the way, well, I don't know what to say. That's old school.

 

I meant to say something like "Well-played," not "Fuck Dave." Though I reserve the right to enjoy when Dave gets worked in any manner just for chaotic chuckles. I certainly don't resent it.