KrisZ Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I don't know, I'm sorta partial to "J Version 2" myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 On DLJ: Keep in mind that the bigger the body, the faster it ages. I think he looked good in those AJ matches and that's well after the peak for someone his size. Riki Choshu has the greatest theme music in wrestling history.Apparently not:http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.php?showtopic=54186 Anti-japan bias. If Power Hall isn't the greatest wrestling theme ever, it sure is very close to it. I think it was more Pro-Queen bias, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I love Queen, but I don't need to see JYD coming out to enjoy the song. Where as Power Hall + Choshu Entrance + Fans Going Batshit = Great Wrestling Entrance Song. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 For those of you that arent subscribers Bryan posted this interview with Humpy at the time I thought it was a refreshingly pleasant interview with a very nice man: http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/19919/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was just at Raw tonight, and being in person when Vickie does her heel schtick is unreal. She did a promo that I'm pretty sure was during a commercial break (haven't watched it on my DVR yet) and it was the most over heel work of the night by far. Like it wasn't even close, you couldn't even hear yourself think over the booing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Was Orton's wife tonight the same one from the home invasion angle with HHH a couple years back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Here's a comment that doesn't warrant a thread if there ever was one: At MSG on Saturday (great show BTW, but I don't have a ton to say about it right now), I noticed something. I don't know if it's something they were instructed to do or that they all came up with themselves, but all of the women walk to the ring the same way. They stay dead center so nobody can touch them (even in the narrow MSG aisleway) and only move towards the fans to slap hands with children. Then they're back in the middle of the aisle or the lanes inside the rails around the ring as soon as possible, only moving to the side for the occasional child. The male wrestlers all walked out differently. It was pretty clear that the women were all trying to desperately avoid the possibility of being groped, which is pretty sad, though I don't blame them, especially after seeing that one clip (which I can't find right now) where an ROH fans tries to grab Lacey's breast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was on the Observer board reading everyone complain about how terrible RAW and the Mania build are. And it occured to me that smart fans pretty much spent 1984-1996 complaining about the state of American wrestling (Damn you for killing the territories Vince!) and now 2001-2011. So we've apparently had about 4 good years in the past 26, but still keep watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I thought it was interesting that the only time HHH got any kind of negative reaction was when he specifically was talking about ending the streak. He got cheered coming out, even some cheers for saying he was going to be violent towards Taker, but ending the streak got boos. It's like the streak is a third party in this feud and it's clear no one wants to see it end now. Also Cole is absolutely fantastic in his role. I was dying watching him run behind Swagger doing all his mannerisms. I don't see what the problem is with this year's Mania build. Sure there's no real hook other than the Rock but most of the buildup has been solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 And it occured to me that smart fans pretty much spent 1984-1996 complaining about the state of American wrestling (Damn you for killing the territories Vince!) I don't know that I agree with this. Jim Crockett/NWA was largely critically acclaimed from '84 to '89, with periods here and there where smart fans complained about the booking, but generally liked the in ring quality. Mid South/UWF was generally a fan favorite. World Class and Memphis had their fans for sure. They might have complained long and hard about WWF wrestling, but I'd say American wrestling was pretty universally liked until the business contracted, with the early 90's really being a period where smart fans did not like American wrestling much, with WWF being WWF and WCW having their litany of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 And it occured to me that smart fans pretty much spent 1984-1996 complaining about the state of American wrestling (Damn you for killing the territories Vince!) I don't know that I agree with this. Jim Crockett/NWA was largely critically acclaimed from '84 to '89, with periods here and there where smart fans complained about the booking, but generally liked the in ring quality. Mid South/UWF was generally a fan favorite. World Class and Memphis had their fans for sure. They might have complained long and hard about WWF wrestling, but I'd say American wrestling was pretty universally liked until the business contracted, with the early 90's really being a period where smart fans did not like American wrestling much, with WWF being WWF and WCW having their litany of problems. There was still so much animosity, though. While there were things people liked, most still hated the way the industry was heading and saw disaster loomong. My point wasn't as much that there weren't things that people liked, but that we were always depressed about the "state" of the industry. I see it this way: 84-86: Unbelievable hatred aimed at Vince for expanding nationally with his terrible circus show. People were disgusted with what he was doing to the industry. Everyone depressed over the fall of the AWA, Dallas, Florida, Watts, Memphis, etc. I remember an Observer from this era where Dave said he may give up on watching wrestling. People hated the changes. 87-88: More hatred towards Vince coupled with a massive turn on Dusty, with him becoming the most hated figure in the industry. Now everyone was depressed the one true challenger to Vince was done. 89: People loved the main event wrestling in the NWA, but the company was still headed the wrong way and Herd was hated. 90-95: The dark days. 2001-2011: Everyone depressed about the WWE monopoly and no one being as good as Austin or Rock. The fall of WWE has been predicted for the entire period once things catch up with them. Vince is generally regarded as an idiot despite having $50 million in profits last year. WWE actually had a pretty great run with Cena from 05-09 but most missed it because they were sad that things aren't as fun as 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Here's a comment that doesn't warrant a thread if there ever was one: At MSG on Saturday (great show BTW, but I don't have a ton to say about it right now), I noticed something. I don't know if it's something they were instructed to do or that they all came up with themselves, but all of the women walk to the ring the same way. They stay dead center so nobody can touch them (even in the narrow MSG aisleway) and only move towards the fans to slap hands with children. Then they're back in the middle of the aisle or the lanes inside the rails around the ring as soon as possible, only moving to the side for the occasional child. The male wrestlers all walked out differently. It was pretty clear that the women were all trying to desperately avoid the possibility of being groped, which is pretty sad, though I don't blame them, especially after seeing that one clip (which I can't find right now) where an ROH fans tries to grab Lacey's breast. Didn't Maria get groped a couple years ago at some live event? I remember reading about it and how shook up she was. I don't blame them either. Especially after going to FCW events and seeing how some of the fans treat AJ Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Naylor Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Here's a comment that doesn't warrant a thread if there ever was one: At MSG on Saturday (great show BTW, but I don't have a ton to say about it right now), I noticed something. I don't know if it's something they were instructed to do or that they all came up with themselves, but all of the women walk to the ring the same way. They stay dead center so nobody can touch them (even in the narrow MSG aisleway) and only move towards the fans to slap hands with children. Then they're back in the middle of the aisle or the lanes inside the rails around the ring as soon as possible, only moving to the side for the occasional child. The male wrestlers all walked out differently. It was pretty clear that the women were all trying to desperately avoid the possibility of being groped, which is pretty sad, though I don't blame them, especially after seeing that one clip (which I can't find right now) where an ROH fans tries to grab Lacey's breast. Didn't Maria get groped a couple years ago at some live event? I remember reading about it and how shook up she was. I don't blame them either. Especially after going to FCW events and seeing how some of the fans treat AJ Lee. When I went to WWE a month back in Philly, it wasn't like this at all. I was on the rail and high-fived Nattie and Beth Phoenix (her tag partner) high-fived people along the other aisle rail. Maybe NYC fans are just bigger pervs... I realize there is a "Rob Naylor looks like a child" joke in here somewhere, lol. But the divas def "worked the guardrails" at the show I was at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Speaking of divas, I thought I saw Melina get killed during the Superstars match taped tonight. They did a Bryan/Kim vs Kidd/Melina mixed tag, and Gail did a bodypress to the floor and Melina took the bump flat like it was in the ring instead of the usual catch-and-roll bump they do on the floor. Was one of the sickest sounding thuds I've ever heard at a wrestling show. Trish's bump to the floor looked pretty sick live as well, she almost got cartwheeled out of her pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 84-86: Unbelievable hatred aimed at Vince for expanding nationally with his terrible circus show. People were disgusted with what he was doing to the industry. Everyone depressed over the fall of the AWA, Dallas, Florida, Watts, Memphis, etc. I remember an Observer from this era where Dave said he may give up on watching wrestling. People hated the changes. This is rather funny to me because in the last couple days I was pondering starting a thread about Meltzer stopping his coverage of wrestling in 84/85. The hatred towards WWF and Vince used to make me angry, especially when I was first online, and in a sense it still does but the other side won't budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Smarks hate everythingTwo points: -Smarks are much more voiciferous about mildly bad stuff than mildly good stuff -Smarks will still usually watch whatever wrestling is on TV. See: the number of threads online where everyone agrees TNA is awful, and has been for years, and the same people keep returning to the thread to complain I'm sure there's a psychology lesson in there somewhere. For me, as soon as I got out of college and no longer had people to watch WWE with, my wrestling TV viewing fell off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Here's a comment that doesn't warrant a thread if there ever was one: At MSG on Saturday (great show BTW, but I don't have a ton to say about it right now), I noticed something. I don't know if it's something they were instructed to do or that they all came up with themselves, but all of the women walk to the ring the same way. They stay dead center so nobody can touch them (even in the narrow MSG aisleway) and only move towards the fans to slap hands with children. Then they're back in the middle of the aisle or the lanes inside the rails around the ring as soon as possible, only moving to the side for the occasional child. The male wrestlers all walked out differently. It was pretty clear that the women were all trying to desperately avoid the possibility of being groped, which is pretty sad, though I don't blame them, especially after seeing that one clip (which I can't find right now) where an ROH fans tries to grab Lacey's breast. Didn't Maria get groped a couple years ago at some live event? I remember reading about it and how shook up she was. I don't blame them either. Especially after going to FCW events and seeing how some of the fans treat AJ Lee. When I went to WWE a month back in Philly, it wasn't like this at all. I was on the rail and high-fived Nattie and Beth Phoenix (her tag partner) high-fived people along the other aisle rail. Maybe NYC fans are just bigger pervs... I realize there is a "Rob Naylor looks like a child" joke in here somewhere, lol. But the divas def "worked the guardrails" at the show I was at. Plain and simple, It's because you're a ladies man Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 This is rather funny to me because in the last couple days I was pondering starting a thread about Meltzer stopping his coverage of wrestling in 84/85. Having read those issues recently, some of that to me seems that he was just busy with his life and some of it was obvious frustration over what he felt to be the WWF's manipulation of the media and its sort of self-actualizing myth. If you read the late 84 stuff, he was predicting that the WWF surge was going to ultimately be a failure, that the steam was running out and that they were getting over extended, that the power of Hulkamania had a relatively short shelf-life. And then they turn the corner into 85 and right into Rock'n'Wrestling, with a whole new breed of fan entering into things that couldn't have been more divergent in tastes and desires than Dave and his reader-base. Moreover, this new breed of fan was going to not only allow WWF to thrive by presenting a product diametrically opposed to what he liked, but it was also going to define wrestling in the rest of the country. From the feel that I get from the text, I think it was that frustration that really pushed him over the edge. For a little bit it looked to him (maybe overly optimistic) as if the WWF style was just a little surge that appealed to certain traditional elements of the fanbase for a little bit, but that it would cycle back around to what he he felt was proper. But then as things progressed, it became so successful that it changed the fanbase itself and in doing so, ensured its own survival for YEARS. In 85 it became strictly evident that McMahon's take on wrestling was not going away anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was on the Observer board reading everyone complain about how terrible RAW and the Mania build are. And it occured to me that smart fans pretty much spent 1984-1996 complaining about the state of American wrestling (Damn you for killing the territories Vince!) and now 2001-2011. So we've apparently had about 4 good years in the past 26, but still keep watching. True fans of wrestling are no different than true fans of any team in a legit sport. Fan of the Red Sox or Cowboys bitch, moan, complain, rant, rave, and go crazy if their team loses. Sometimes they're not even happy if their team wins. But that sort of negative emotional reaction does not mean they aren't fans, it just means they're passionate (and a little unreasonable). They invest a lot of time and money into following their team and they want some return on that investment. The only time to get worried is when there is no reaction at all. Negativity still means fans care, apathy means they quit paying attention. I fell into the apathetic category with wrestling about 10 years ago. The fact that there are still so many people "complaining" about the state of wrestling today is a good thing. It shows there is still a good chunk of people that care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was on the Observer board reading everyone complain about how terrible RAW and the Mania build are. And it occured to me that smart fans pretty much spent 1984-1996 complaining about the state of American wrestling (Damn you for killing the territories Vince!) and now 2001-2011. So we've apparently had about 4 good years in the past 26, but still keep watching. Well, I stopped watching a decade ago. Got to watch some matches for the GWE poll at SC, and batch an eye at WM every year or so, but I mostly stopped watching because I can't stand modern WWE style. I'll watch WM this year with an open eye, and mostly to see the Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 -All Hardcore Fans are much more voiciferous about mildly bad stuff than mildly good stuff -All Hardcore Fans will still usually watch whatever the ___ that is availble. See: the number of threads online where everyone agrees ___ is awful, and has been for years, and the same people keep returning to the thread to complain Corrected. People like to associate behavior to "smarks" that is exactly what we see in all hardcore fandoms. You see it in sports, politics, movies, books, music, etc. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Which I see CFCW pointed out as well. I'd go beyond just sports, since you see the same thing with people complaining about the New Kids On The Block while putting over their favorite indy band. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have noticed that the one wrestling move that seems to transcend style, time, country and skill is the clothesline. It gets over in just about any setting, it's easy to execute and it looks great. It may be the best wrestling move ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have noticed that the one wrestling move that seems to transcend style, time, country and skill is the clothesline. It gets over in just about any setting, it's easy to execute and it looks great. It may be the best wrestling move ever. Larry Z used to make bets while announcing on how many clotheslines he'd see in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Counting Punched In The Corner is a spot that trancends more. We've all seen throwaway shitty clotheslines do little to up tepid fan interest. But if they go to the corner, the face hops up on the ropes and starts punching the hell, the fans will count along. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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