Just curious

[Loss]

These days, what type of discussion interests you the most between these choices?

 

* Behind the scenes talk (Examples: Nash not passing a physical, plans for upcoming shows, Punk angle)

* Gossipy/salacious stuff (Examples: Linda McMahon's campaign, Matt Hardy in rehab, Melina is a psycho)

* Best/worst stuff (Examples: Jerry Von Kramer threads)

* Match reviews and wrestler discussion (Examples: Yearbook threads, HOF discussion)

 

It all has a place, and this isn't to decry anything, but more just to call it as I see it. I personally wish there was a lot less of the first two and a lot more of the last two. If anyone sees it differently, that's fine. I'm not coming at anyone, but I thought this would be an interesting topic. If you disagree, I'd love to hear your reasons.

[Al]

Match reviews definitely. Best/worst is always a fun discussion though.

[smkelly]

* Behind the scenes talk (Examples: Nash not passing a physical, plans for upcoming shows, Punk angle)

I visit PWTorch for that, mostly.

 

* Gossipy/salacious stuff (Examples: Linda McMahon's campaign, Matt Hardy in rehab, Melina is a psycho)

Eh. Things like this actually hurt my fandom in a lot of ways. I prefer to stay away from them the best I can.

 

* Best/worst stuff (Examples: Jerry Von Kramer threads)

No offense to Jerry, but I'd prefer if the threads were made by someone else. But generally speaking, my #2. It is interesting to see where people rank things.

 

* Match reviews and wrestler discussion (Examples: Yearbook threads, HOF discussion)

This is my favorite area. Helps me find new stuff to watch, and the discussions are generally well worth the time to read through all the posts.

[Slasher]

Honestly I find myself not going in most of the HOF/match reviews/wrestler threads, especially regarding older material, because I feel like there's not much new stuff being said about it. I don't really care for gossip but at the very least it pertains to the present landscape of wrestling, so I give these threads a check out. I suppose I enjoy the Best/Worst type of threads where most of it is opinions on people, styles and etc that I find interesting. The ones that really catch my eye is the backstage threads because PWO is pretty much the only forum that I attend relating to wrestling that doesn't have the general interest posters involved (like WC).

[Gregor]

The latter two. I'd rather read (and occasionally talk) about the actual wrestling.

[Tim Evans]

Best thing I've seen on this board is Krisz's "Vince vs the World" topic and Dylan's look back at Jerry Blackwell. I'm ok with the first two cause it seems here that most of the people are more level headed compared to places like DVDVR. Not a big fan of option 3. Lots of rehash arguments and too man TL:DR posts. Yearbook threads are ok but kinda hard to comment on when you agree with everything in the first post.

[Ditch]

I'd rank them thusly:

 

* Match reviews and wrestler discussion (Examples: Yearbook threads, HOF discussion)

* Behind the scenes talk (Examples: Nash not passing a physical, plans for upcoming shows, Punk angle)

* Gossipy/salacious stuff (Examples: Linda McMahon's campaign, Matt Hardy in rehab, Melina is a psycho)

* Best/worst stuff (Examples: Jerry Von Kramer threads)

[NintendoLogic]

My preference is definitely for discussing matches and wrestlers. It's just that it's hard to do sometimes. Most of the recent stuff isn't really worth discussing in much detail, and it's difficult to come up with anything original or insightful about the old stuff because it's already been discussed to death.

[FLIK]

The latter two. I'd rather read (and occasionally talk) about the actual wrestling.

Yeah this, the other stuff I have a passing interest in but could take or leave, main thing I care about it just the discussion of the matches/wrestlers themselves.

[cm funk]

The stuff that interests me the most is something not on the list, which is history/historical discussion. Like that thread detailing the WWF expansion into different territories, show by show and month by month, I found that fascinating.

 

There's very little going on in wrestling today that I care about, and my days of taking the time to sit down and watch volumes of matches are long past. If I seek out anything on youtube or whatever these days it's old promos and angles, but what really interests me these days is books dealing with the history of the business, old newsletters, shoot interviews, archived websites etc. etc.

 

From the list presented, easily behind the scenes stuff.

 

I find reading match reviews and overwrought discussion of workers beyond tedious most of the time. Certainly I'm in the minority on that.

[JerryvonKramer]

I agree with cmfunk's first point there, I love reading that historical information, especially about the territories, the sort of stuff that crops up in Comments that don't warrant a thread, and a lot of the stuff jdw posts.

 

There's also a category of thread which is not necessarily best/ worst but focused on particular issues (e.g. The poor sportsmanship of Hulk Hogan)

 

And then there's the sorts of threads that ask about posters' particular tastes, like Wrestlers you've Flipped on and a lot of NintendoLogic's threads.

 

The only wrestling I watch now is the goodhelmet sets and old PPVs. Listen to and watch a lot of shoots too, and a couple of podcasts (Flairchop, Will's one). So I have little interest in the first two options. Even though that stuff is "current news" in a strange way it feels dated and it's part of the culture that in my view killed wrestling. Also the Flair stuff makes me genuinely sad so I try to keep away from it.

 

I do realise I make a lot of threads, but there's a really good reason for it (at least for me personally), which is that this place is unlike 99% of other boards out there where you still get a lot of Shawn/ Bret fanboyism and all the other IWC stereotypes. This place throws up a lot of genuinely interesting and really informed perspectives and the sorts of discussion that you just don't see elsewhere, other than at DVDR which is just a bit too massive for me to post on outside of the 80s project. I realise too that oftentimes despite being the starter of the thread, the more interesting views are going to come from everyone else. And nine times out of ten, the discussion that ends up taking place is not the one I envisioned, but it's usually good stuff.

 

For match reviews, at least for the 80s sets, I think DVDR is the natural place to read and write them. I do read the yearbook stuff here though.

[Coffey]

I like talking about stuff that didn't happen 20 years ago all the time. I still watch and follow the new stuff, which includes both WWE and TNA, but it seems like a lot of the posters around here don't. I find match reviews to be a boring and tedious chore to read and the gossip stuff can at least be somewhat entertaining in a trainwreck sort way. No one ever seems to even say anything about the latest Raw, Smackdown, Impact or PPV. Maybe one or two comments in the "Comments" thread and that's it.

 

I'm not going to read a huge reply about some dude I've never heard of before. Like Waco's reply on Blackwell in the HoF thread. It just doesn't interest me. But instead of sticking my nose in there and fucking the thread up, I just ignore it and move on.

 

But I've always kinda stuck out like a sore thumb here.

[Dylan Waco]

I really couldn't give a shit about the gossipy stuff. I don't hate it and I usually find myself following the thread for the first day or so but after that point it is very rare for me to even go into the threads. I just don't care that much beyond the initial story (often I don't even care about that) and more importantly the threads always seem to devolve into discussions that I think are irrelevant or totally uninteresting.

 

Behind the scenes stuff is hit or miss. Some of it I find interesting and I try and follow. The back and fourth can sometimes present alternative takes on things that I find interesting or bring to light a historical event that was similar that adds some context. Having said that a lot of that is stuff that I ultimately don't care that much about either, unless it is packaged as a discussion with a broader context.

 

Big fan of the last two types of threads, though Best/Worst and wrestler discussion is something I think tends to overlap enough to a point where I'm not entirely sure they should be separate categories.

 

At this stage as a fan I still watch more modern product than a lot of people here, but I also watch a shitload of older stuff. The big difference to me is that I don't watch modern wrestling for the angles/storylines/promos and haven't really for at least the last ten years if not longer. As a result I'm far more interested in talking about wrestlers, matches, historical context type stuff than whether or not the Cody Rhodes gimmick sucks (it does) or what Bret Hart said on twitter.

[shoe]

For me I like discussing or reading about matches. Discussing workers is always fun because their is so much point counter point stuff. I also like discussing territory booking and angles.

[Strummer]

the gossip stuff is probably the last on my list. I guess I like the backstage stuff more than most. Always love to read the yearbook stuff amd match reviews

[smkelly]

I do realise I make a lot of threads, but there's a really good reason for it (at least for me personally), which is that this place is unlike 99% of other boards out there where you still get a lot of Shawn/ Bret fanboyism and all the other IWC stereotypes. This place throws up a lot of genuinely interesting and really informed perspectives and the sorts of discussion that you just don't see elsewhere, other than at DVDR which is just a bit too massive for me to post on outside of the 80s project. I realise too that oftentimes despite being the starter of the thread, the more interesting views are going to come from everyone else. And nine times out of ten, the discussion that ends up taking place is not the one I envisioned, but it's usually good stuff.

Like I said, it wasn't to be taken at an offensive point-of-view. You bring interesting concepts of new discussion to the board. Though, to be completely honest, your general "thread worthy" question is often answered at the conclusion of 'your' first post. It often seems as you're testing the waters to confirm what the general public around here perceive as quality wrestling or the extent of their knowledge, whatever, which is in comparison to the other places you frequent, i.e. "surface level material."

 

I think a solution to that is utilizing the more historical aspects of pro wrestling as guidelines - a catch-all thread, if you will.

 

Think of some of the most recent threads:

 

The best heel

The best face

Match structure

WCW's "big" show

...etc...

 

Though they're excellent conversation starters, they're not as quantifiable to the level I always presume you're trying to take them to. There was some mid-level trolling going on about whether or not Jerry Lawler never no-sold. Even though there is observable evidence to the contrary, some hold that belief nevertheless. So we can all say what we think makes or breaks a character set, or what the difference is between match structures, but those things are all subjective. And they're pretty well-known to the general public that frequent this board - they have a general idea of what selling is and the overall importance it holds over a match.

 

While I have questioned in the past (recently too) particular names of tropes in match contexts, I knew the checkboxes that were attributed to the trope - like Southern tag.

 

Though I think having a dictionary of sorts would be a cool thing. Plenty of posters around here enjoying typing out long posts. 1 + 1 = 2. Someone like Dylan could write an awesome catch-all definition about the Southern tag. Jdw could explain the All Japan style. Ditch has solid roots in puroresu as well. Naylor can pinpoint a squash match like none other. FLIK knows joshi. There are a lot of posters here, many I did not mention, who can bring a large batch of knowledge and history to the table at any given moment.

 

I'm far more interested in talking about wrestlers, matches, historical context type stuff

Cannot agree more. It seems the older I get, the more I want to learn about history. The historical side of professional wrestling tells a very unique story. It is a form of entertainment that has evolved over a century. A form of entertainment that is largely unwatched by a sizable world-wide population.

 

And while today's information will be tomorrow's history, it is generally the same stuff over-and-over - some "old" star has taken The Wrestler to fundamentalist levels, so-and-so is sleeping with so-and-so, or Vince and Co. continued nightmarish monopoly over American wrestling. Hence my interest in pieces Meltzer tosses out every-now-and-then - like the historical piece on the sixty-minute draws that champions from "back in the day" did on a nightly basis. It's why I am a fan of the "TL;DR" posts that jdw will pump out when discussions of All Japan Pre-Split (most puroresu, actually) are floating around in the recommendation or Year Book threads, etc. When the lucha guys hope in, I read every word that they have typed.

 

And while I like Bix's efforts to keep a history going of, well, mostly the darker side of pro wrestling, I prefer to learn about the matches and the companies I like the most.

 

-----

 

I mean, this is all subjective anyway. Some don't like the same things I do. Some don't like me period. But that is simply the joy of being a fan of, well, anything. And I hope that no one that I name dropped thinks I am trying to sign them up for something, I'm not. I'm simply stating that there are guys around this site that have depths of knowledge that I am eager to have shared.

 

And a lot of these guys are responsible for some of the best topics PWO has to offer - the aforementioned KrisZ McMahon thread, the historical and match analysis' of the TM/DK series, etc, et al. So there is reason to see that certain topics generate the most interest, and the overwhelming majority of 'em has the same central context besides wrestling - history.

[Ricky Jackson]

Like cm funk and Jerry, I'm mostly interested in the historical stuff. I still follow the current scene, mostly passively through online sites and boards because it's easy to get a quick update, but I haven't watched any fed regularly in a couple of years, and I haven't been a "hardcore" fan (at least in my eyes) since about 2001 or so. I am "hardcore" when it comes to reading about wrestling history, and frequently watch old matches, but not really in any substantial volume. I'm pretty much a recovering WWE/WWF junkie going back to the 80s (with Stampede, ECW, WCW, and AWA in the mix through the years), but these days I'm mostly interested in learning about the territories I missed out on. But I've barely scratced the surface when it comes to watching Crockett, Georgia, World Class, Memphis, Portland, etc., let alone Japan or Mexico. Someday maybe.

 

Anyway, I guess of the options provided I enjoy the wrestler discussion the most, followed by the behind the scenes stuff. This is a really cool board, the only one I post on, and my day isn't complete without at least a couple visits. I agree with Jerry that this a unique board and totally different than the usuall IWC (I loathe that term) nonsense. (I'm getting older and demand my wrestling talk be dignified, damn it!!!) Sure, some of the topics don't interest me, but all in all this is a fun place to spend a few minutes here and there.

 

Keep it up, whoever you are.

[Ronnie]

Match reviews definitely. Best/worst is always a fun discussion though.

I'm the polar opposite, not interested in either of those two things Surely at some point you get tired of drawing up the same lists after having done so for a decade or more?

 

Still, I'm well aware that I contribute nothing to these forums and simply pop by because I often enjoy the comments on the gossip and salaciousness here, the denizens of which are often capable of adding historical context that I wouldn't find elsewhere.

[JerryvonKramer]

It often seems as you're testing the waters to confirm what the general public around here perceive as quality wrestling or the extent of their knowledge, whatever, which is in comparison to the other places you frequent, i.e. "surface level material."

This is actually the only wrestling board I actively frequent (well, this and 80s project subforum of DVDR). I have posted elsewhere in the past, but recall becoming frustrated with people acting like wrestling history started in 1996.

 

Believe it or not, I ask the things I do not to confirm anything, but because I genuinely don't know what people are going to say. Did I ever think anyone would bring up Adrian Adonis for best heel?

 

Here is one place where commonplace assumptions and received opinions are challenged. And that's mainly because people have gone back and actually watched old Bockwinkel matches, or they've seen people's pre-WWF/ WCW careers in the territories, and are actually in a position to make an educated call. No wrestler's reputation is a given here.

 

I understand of course that these things are subjective, but you can always point to evidence of sorts. I made the claim that DiBiase was the master of the 10-minute TV match, Loss wants a list of great 10-minute TV matches of his. There are opinions and then there are informed, substantiated opinions. I think that's the case with all forms of criticism.

 

By the way, would also love to see a dictionary thread, think that's a fantastic idea.

[El-P]

* Behind the scenes talk (Examples: Nash not passing a physical, plans for upcoming shows, Punk angle)

Since I'm not actually watching the current product, with very few exceptions, but still am interested in what hapens in wrestling, this stuff keeps me connected to the current scene, so yeah, I would put it N°1.

 

* Gossipy/salacious stuff (Examples: Linda McMahon's campaign, Matt Hardy in rehab, Melina is a psycho)

Why not. It's been a long long time now that I have no illusion left about wrestling, so why not have fun with the goofballs that are all around.

 

* Best/worst stuff (Examples: Jerry Von Kramer threads)

Depends of the thread, sometimes it goes nowhere, and sometime it produces tons of interesting comments and goes into several unexpected directions, with people giving historical perspectives for instance. I enjoy that.

 

* Match reviews and wrestler discussion (Examples: Yearbook threads, HOF discussion)

Match reviews, this is what got me into talking with people online. And at this point, I'll admit I don't care that much for it anymore. For several reasons.

_I'm not participating in any project that goes on for very simple reason : I don't have money to spend on wrestling, and there is an amazing amount of stuff you can get for free. My hard drive is chockfull of stuff I barely have time to watch. So I'm not really getting deep into the yearbooks threads (only comenting from memories) although they look absolutely great to be honest.

_The older I get, the more neutral I become and don't wan't to spend hours arguing about this match being great or sucking. My tastes have evolved quite a bit also, and they have mostly widened. Not to say I enjoy everything, it's far from being the case, and I think some wrestler pimped as great around some place do suck pretty hard, but I have a more relaxed approach to it.

_I'm also getting lazy, and don't feel like writing about every good match I watch. I'm currently going through WCW 1990, and I could write a lot more about what I think of it, but either don't find the time or the will to do so.

HOF discussion honestly never cared for in any way of another, although I enjoyed reading the old Gordy lists at tOA back then.

 

So yeah, I mostly enjoy behind the scene talks and gossip, a way to still follow what happens, as I still care about the wrestling business somehow (either that, or it's atavism at this point), and the wrestlers/historical discussions.

[MikeCampbell]

Honestly, I'm with Ditch on this one. Out of the four categories you mentioned I'd rate them a follows

 

1. Match reviews and wrestler discussion (Examples: Yearbook threads, HOF discussion)

2. Behind the scenes talk (Examples: Nash not passing a physical, plans for upcoming shows, Punk angle)

3. Gossipy/salacious stuff (Examples: Linda McMahon's campaign, Matt Hardy in rehab, Melina is a psycho)

4. Best/worst stuff (Examples: Jerry Von Kramer threads)

 

But my favorite thing lately, has been the Newsletter recaps. I'm slowly amassing the huge backlog of WON scans that has been making it's way around the interweb, so I'm hoping to get some free time and make a contribution to that area of the board myself.

[Log]

Like Mike there ^, I love the newsletter recaps. Just helps to put where we are now in perspective.

 

I can't really rank the choices. It really depends on what's most interesting at a given moment. When the Vince vs The World stuff was going on, that was my favorite thing. The Blackwell discussion has been fascinating. Some of JVK's threads have led to interesting places. Lately, the Flair stuff has been what I'm interested in.

 

I also don't go many other places for wrestling stuff online. Just here, DVDVR and Segunda Caida (and Wrestling KO here and there). I think this place strikes a good balance of all the things mentioned by Loss in the original post.

[Matt D]

I like broader history or wrestler discussions (often revisionist) more than specific match discussion, if that makes sense. My very favorite thing in the last year was probably the Vince vs the World stuff.

[jdw]

These days, what type of discussion interests you the most between these choices?

#5 - Wrestling Talk

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the topic. Different people enjoy different types of conversations.

 

The quantity of conversation is at a pretty good level right now. It's certainly up since the post-Benoit drop... say within a year after the murders were a lot of people were burned out of wrestling in general. Conversation here dropped quite a bit. It never was as narrow as folks coming in to defend Dave/Bryan would claim (i.e. all we talked about was Dave & Bryan), but I think we'd all admit it was low volume and pretty burned out.

 

It's now pretty vibrant. It's not as massive as DVDVR, but never will be given the number of posters... and I'm not sure that Loss & Will ever wanted it to be that spawling even in terms of the wrestling talk. There are lots of other places with pertty vibrant discussion/conversations on wrestling such as WKO. I don't think chasing or aping any other discussion board is terribly useful.

 

This place hits a variety of topics / themes / areas of discussion. Someone visiting here can pick and chose what they like, wade in where they feel comfortable. It doesn't appear that many are getting driven off (WP not withstanding, though that seemed to be global rather than PWO). Instead, we've seen some newer folks come in, or at least post a bit more like Jerry, Nintendo, cm funk and Ricky. There seem to be some older posters that might have wandered off for a while who are posting more often again... I'm thinking Mad Dog and Coffey. FLIK's been around the net for a long time, but has gotten really active here with the Yearbooks, and his joshi contributions are really helping push along the discussion on that genre.

 

I think the convesation in the various areas is generally well done. We may disagree, there may be some heat from time to time, but it's pretty mild relative to what all of us have seen and/or been in the middle of over the past two decades.

 

I also think that if you ever get a chance to go back through some of the Behind the scenes talk / Gossipy/salacious stuff, it doesn't reflect too badly on the place or the posters relative to what we've seen or been in the middle of elsewhere. The Benoit thread for example... I had the chance to go back and re-read the "real-time" stuff in the early days of the thread. It's pretty solid. I thinks we all saw some pretty crackers stuff around the net in those early days... PWO was pretty solid and level headed at a time when a lot of us were shell shocked by the events. In turn, the thread has been a really good reference point for people like Bix and Keith to bring in later news, and for the rest of us to bounce around thoughts.

 

The conversation on the Hardys has been similar. Sure there are some jokes tossed around, but that is our nature. But there's also a lot of good analysis in there, a good amount of cutting through the bullshit, and given the variety of posters that we have bringing different experiance & knowledge to the table, it can be pretty informative. There's enough volume of posters that you get that postive, but also not such a mass of posts where the signal gets lost in 200 useless posts: good, on topic, solid, some humor, some brutally honest stuff.

 

Are there things that I would like to see? Perhaps... but when the place is at a pretty good place, why bother pushing too much for fear of derailing what's working pretty well.

 

So...

 

#5 - Wrestling Talk

 

It's not a case of "it's working so don't fuck with it", which usually gets tossed out when something is long of tooth and actually *not* working. It's a case of "things are on the upswing in PWO and working pretty well".

 

John

[Victator]

I like wrestler/match/storyline discussions. I think I could go the rest of my life without discussing backstage stuff and be happy.