Extreme Rules

[El-P]

He's not literally calling it a terminated human fetus.

 

Although the match was about as appealing as such a thing when I think about it.

[bradhindsight]

Remember this is also a new world and it could end on a Monday night.

 

I wonder too if this has allowed them to be a little different with the Cena/Wyatt story. They're not out to get $54.95 buys so perhaps they're a bit more leniant and experiment more.

[Loss]

that's a perfectly valid usage of the word abortion. He's not literally calling it a terminated human fetus. the Oxford dictionary also has this definition: "An object or undertaking regarded by the speaker as unpleasant or badly made or carried out."

 

i mean, this is a fucking niche pro wrestling forum...does it really matter?

 

Yes. I asked politely and you never know what someone's life experiences may be. It's valid but I'd rather the word not be used to talk about something as trivial as wrestling matches.

[Strummer]

Dave is reporting that Vince is trying to convince Batista to work Bryan at Payback. If he can't convince him the planned main event is Bryan v Kane in a buried alive match

[Loss]

What do they have in mind for Orton? They have now used Batista to eat losses two months in a row and for whatever reason aren't even thinking of having Orton put Bryan over. Bryan needs a "wrestling" opponent instead of Kane. And I say that as someone who thought the presentation of the match last night did a wonderful job in presenting him as a tough top babyface.

[dexstar]

Some thoughts...

 

Overall: I thought it was entertaining enough for my $10/mo network subscription. Not a particularly "newsworthy" show but everything can't be WrestleMania.

 

Specific Good Stuff

 

- WeeLC: I can see a lot of people hating this because the comedy was "cringeworthy" to them or something similar, but I thought it had some awesome spots and was quite fun. Not a match of the year or anything but I got a kick out of it. I also really like Torito and the fact that within the WWE Universe it's up for debate whether he's a small man or an actual small bull. That's the absurd part of wrestling I love. Drew McIntyre's table bump was pretty nuts considering what I expected out of the match and the placement. I would have preferred more Hornswoggle v. Torito and less hijinx with the 3MB/Matadores but not a killer criticism.

 

- Bryan/Kane: Definitely gonna be a minority opinion here but I liked that match and don't have any problem with the feud continuing a bit longer. Technically these two have a tremendously long history and Bryan's justification for continuing in the post-match press conference (he put his hands on MY WIFE, I'm not sure I'm done with him, etc) was ok with me. The TV into the water was .. weird... but memorable. The forklift was a pretty clever way to get them back in the ring. Up for debate whether they needed to be that far in the back to begin with, of course. The flying headbutt off the forklift was a nice moment and will look good in video retrospectives. The fire spot caught me off guard because it didn't seem very PG but was one of the few times in the recent history of this PPV it actually felt somewhat "extreme".

 

- RVD/Cesaro/Swagger: This might be more of a "meh" than good, but I'm feeling a good mood today. Mostly I call this good because Cesaro got the win and hopefully that means he's done with RVD. I can't stand RVD.

 

- Barrett/Big E: Hopefully the IC title isn't the death sentence for Wade like it has been for others. He's so into this run and I am really enjoying watching him. Maybe he will be the first of the past 30 champions to actually succeed in making the IC title a big deal again. I feel bad for Big E. I like watching him and he's pretty funny on his social media accounts, so there is a personality there, it's just not being used. Maybe now they can explore that side of him a bit more and try to retool him into a better part of the show instead of Generic Strong Babyface. My out-there idea would be smart ass Big E teaming with The Big Guy Ryback. Perhaps they could bond via their mutual love of powerlifting and singlets.

 

- Evolution/Shield: I thought, as it appears most everyone does, that this was great. Don't have much to add other than I hope The Shield never ever break up and stay together for ten years.

 

Specific Not-So-Good

 

-Paige/Tamina: I didn't think was bad but it wasn't that great either. I really like Paige and this felt like the first match where it wasn't really working since she won the title a month ago. Small bump in the road but nothing that's gonna kill her long term. She needs some more mic time on a visible show for people to figure out what her character is supposed to be.

 

- Bray/Cena: I don't think was as bad as the rap it's quickly developing, but it had some severe problems. WWE Cage matches, as usual, don't make much sense. Too many ways to win makes it silly that it takes so long for someone to get the W. That's not a new criticism. Also, Cena looks like a total wuss when he won't go down the cage to fight Harper/Rowan - I mean, ten minutes before that, Seth Rollins launched himself off a balcony to get HHH/Orton, and Cena won't risk fighting Harper/Rowan on the floor? The kid though .... that's a classic wrestling WTF moment.

 

- Rusev: I'm on record as enjoying this and the questionable taste aspect aside, the Putin thing was funny. I can see how this performance didn't really win anyone new over though. I still think he's going to be a fine addition as a mid-level heel for a while before getting a quick title contender push and then doing the traditional WWE big man transition into comedy figure. Basically I don't ever think Rusev is going to be such a highly prominent figure that it's worth hating him too much. I also like the thousand yard stare camel clutch.

 

Specific Really Really Really Horrible

 

- JBL and Lawler. My god. I actually think Cole does a good job on his own and can nicely complement the matches, but these two dudes are just killing me on a weekly basis now. It's like all three are watching a different thing. There's no coherence in their jabber. Lawler especially rarely seems to grasp what's happening or what is important to the story. JBL's yelling and one-liners just ruin things for me. Does he need to do that phony sounding "I LOVE THIS GUY" soundbite every single time Barrett is on screen? They had no idea on the RVD/Swagger elimination. They were laughing during the Bryan match. It's just so distracting that I think it's actively hurting the in-ring action. Again, this isn't a new criticism, but they seemed especially awful last night.

[funkdoc]

I like the Bad News Barrett character for some reason and I'm interested to see where they go with it.

 

the impression i get from youtube clips i've seen is that he's basically a smark, which would be perfect nowadays

 

there was a smackdown last year where he shows up during miz vs. brodus clay, calls it one of the worst matches ever, and leads the crowd in a "THIS IS AWFUL *clap-clap clap-clap-clap*" chant

[BillThompson]

 

 

But the forklift spot was cool and it got over in a match that was extreme rules. You're entitled to like what you like and not like what ya don't like, but it was fucking fun and made sense in this "extreme rules" world that was this card. Lighten up.

 

It has nothing to do with lightening up. We're watching wrestling, by its very nature its in the light realm the majority of the time. I don't think the forklift spot worked, nor did I think it was fun or cool. It was a bad moment and a call back to an era of the WWF that was plain awful most of the time.

 

Something that was cool and a lot of fun in that match was Ricardo begging them to use the American announce table for their spot. That's an organic moment, and a small one, that worked within the match and added to the fun of the match.

 

 

 

I'm so tired of this "Attitude Era" sucked nonsense. I had so much fun watching that stuff. Even the incredibly stupid stuff was good for a laugh. As someone who was a teenager during Rock n Wrestling in 85, and someone who thought the early 90s Warrior era stuff was fucking stupid, watching Vince do this crazy ass shit that either worked, like Val Venis or was the dopiest shit ever like Beaver Cleavage, it was captivating. I loved cringing at the really dumb shit. But Attitude dumb shit was just like older dumb shit like the Mountie. And there are tons of folks who think Mountie was great.

I'm with you. Granted, I was in middle school for the heart of the Attitude Era, so a lot of the juvenile stuff they did was appealing directly to me. And I'll also admit that a lot of it hasn't aged well, namely 1999 WWF, but it was really fun in the moment. I know an increasing amount of people like to talk about how overrated it was or how terrible it was, but they were doing 5's and 6's every week for well over a year, so it couldn't have been THAT BAD.

 

 

I was in the thick of the Attitude Era, and I didn't like it then. I know a lot of people do, and I'm not going to take that away from anyone. I am, however, going to voice my opinion that I think it's probably the worst era in WWE history. Just as others are allowed to like it and voice that opinion, I'm allowed to dislike it and voice that opinion.

[C.S.]

I'm so tired of this "Attitude Era" sucked nonsense. I had so much fun watching that stuff. Even the incredibly stupid stuff was good for a laugh. As someone who was a teenager during Rock n Wrestling in 85, and someone who thought the early 90s Warrior era stuff was fucking stupid, watching Vince do this crazy ass shit that either worked, like Val Venis or was the dopiest shit ever like Beaver Cleavage, it was captivating. I loved cringing at the really dumb shit. But Attitude dumb shit was just like older dumb shit like the Mountie. And there are tons of folks who think Mountie was great.

 

Attitude Era didn't suck. Neither did Mountie. I didn't like the forklift though, because it belonged in another time period. I probably wouldn't like Mountie today either. However, now that I'm hearing the forklift thing was a tribute to Bryan's dad, I think that's actually pretty cool (if true).

 

Also, I forgot to mention the Wee-LC Match in my last post. Thought that was really fun and creative, down to the mini ladders and chairs, mini commentators, mini commentary table, etc. WWE thought of everything, and both Torito and Hornswoggle busted their asses out there.

 

I still stand behind my opinion on both Cena/Bray matches: memorable, creative, outside the box, and did a great job in showing who both characters are. I loved them. Let every other match be "great wrestling matches" - these told a great story IMO.

 

I hope Batista vs. Bryan is another false internet rumor, like "Bryan vs. Kane isn't the main event at Extreme Rules" that everyone jumped on despite a complete lack of evidence. Batista has lost the past two PPVs, including to Bryan at WM, and isn't a compelling opponent or character. He can be rebuilt, but shoving him down everyone's throats in another main event isn't the way to do it. Give Batista time to breathe and find his footing again. Even Kane would be a preferable opponent.

[tigerpride]

But the forklift spot was cool and it got over in a match that was extreme rules. You're entitled to like what you like and not like what ya don't like, but it was fucking fun and made sense in this "extreme rules" world that was this card. Lighten up.

 

You should lighten up. The forklift spot was awful and killed the match, especially with Kane lazily rolling off of it. Everyone watching where I was turned on the show at this point

[Bix]

The two main events = drizzling shit. A 30 minutes Kane match, dragging Daniel Bryan way way down.

That was a really good match and Kane is a great worker. A great, great worker.

[tigerpride]

I thought the match was pretty bland and way below D-Bry's usual standards. Hated the backstage brawling, the forklift, Kane being in the Yes Lock forever and the fire stuff. Just a blah match.

[anarchistxx]

Well Cena/Wyatt and Bryan/Kane were overlong, overbooked and utterly atrocious. Whoever laid those matches out has a lot to answer for. The worst thing is that both feuds look like they might continue.

 

The first half of the show was a lot of fun. Triple threat was about as good as it could be, the RVD/Cesaro sections at the end were so much better than the mess of a match they had on Raw. Barrett/Big E was alright, but as I predicted Big E is bombing completely. Titus O'Neill is a much better fit in his role, has a better look, moves better and has more natural charisma, Big E is a fantastic athlete but there is something about him where you can't take him seriously as a top guy, something missing, that indefinable factor that makes someone like Roman Reigns stand out.

 

Shield/Evolution was really good, even if it could have been better. Some of the camera work was poor, especially leading up to the big Rollins dive. Ambrose was the MVP for me. Quite enjoyed the womens match as well, probably because I have a soft spot for Paige. Skipped the WeeLC and the Rusev squash.

[artDDP]

Specific Really Really Really Horrible

 

- JBL and Lawler. My god. I actually think Cole does a good job on his own and can nicely complement the matches, but these two dudes are just killing me on a weekly basis now. It's like all three are watching a different thing. There's no coherence in their jabber. Lawler especially rarely seems to grasp what's happening or what is important to the story. JBL's yelling and one-liners just ruin things for me. Does he need to do that phony sounding "I LOVE THIS GUY" soundbite every single time Barrett is on screen? They had no idea on the RVD/Swagger elimination. They were laughing during the Bryan match. It's just so distracting that I think it's actively hurting the in-ring action. Again, this isn't a new criticism, but they seemed especially awful last night.

Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention but is it a new WWE "thing" to not actually call moves? I don't think any of three used the names like victory roll or hurricanrana, they just described the moves as "Paige rolling up Tamina" or "Bryan launching Kane". Is using any name that isn't trademarked by WWE too "pro wrasslin'" for them?

[Coffey]

Dave is reporting that Vince is trying to convince Batista to work Bryan at Payback. If he can't convince him the planned main event is Bryan v Kane in a buried alive match

*slaps head*

 

SIGH

 

Poor Bryan.

 

 

 

 

The two main events = drizzling shit. A 30 minutes Kane match, dragging Daniel Bryan way way down.

That was a really good match and Kane is a great worker. A great, great worker.

 

No, no he's not. He's sucked for twenty years. All the way back to when he was a dentist in WWF and doing a shitty DDT for a finish. Or when he was teaming with Al Snow, Pre-WWE, & clowning the Rock 'N Roll Express. He's never been good. He's awkward & goofy & clumsy.

[Marty]

- Rusev: I'm on record as enjoying this and the questionable taste aspect aside, the Putin thing was funny. I can see how this performance didn't really win anyone new over though.

 

It apparently didn't win over Sheamus:

 

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2014/0505/575796/sheamus-dozes-off-during-extreme-rules-match/

 

 

- Many fans near the pre-show panel at Extreme Rules last night noted that Sheamus appeared to doze off during the R-Truth and Xavier Woods vs. Alexander Rusev match. There was a chant started for Sheamus to wake up.

[Strummer]

I don't want the Kane feud to continue but there's no doubt that .Bryan was positioned as a top WWE style face last night. The goofy props and low level action flick sequences. Those are reserved for the Cenas, Rocks, Undertakers, etc. I really don't think the feud will hurt him even if the matches aren't good. In fact I'll bet many in the company were more impressed last night with the garbage style stuff than they were with his workrate matches

[Russellmania]

 

that's a perfectly valid usage of the word abortion. He's not literally calling it a terminated human fetus. the Oxford dictionary also has this definition: "An object or undertaking regarded by the speaker as unpleasant or badly made or carried out."

 

i mean, this is a fucking niche pro wrestling forum...does it really matter?

 

Yes. I asked politely and you never know what someone's life experiences may be. It's valid but I'd rather the word not be used to talk about something as trivial as wrestling matches.

 

 

Can we use the term "suicide dive?" What about something like "he really killed him with that clothesline?"

 

Just trying to understand what colloquialisms of 'unpleasant' words are allowed to be used on something as trivial as wrestling matches.

[Loss]

Suicide dive is the established name of a wrestling move, not something that someone here decided would be a clever way to describe a bad match. Abortion is a term that was used in wrestling to describe bad matches in the old days, but even Dave Meltzer stopped using it in the WON in 1988 when a reader pointed out that it's offensive.

 

If you're interested in a real conversation about use of terms like this, please take it to feedback (and out of this thread) and we'll talk about it there.

 

I asked politely - I didn't make an order - and he agreed not to do it. For the record, I've said the same things about unfortunate choice of words when someone will describe Hogan and Bischoff's relationship as Bischoff being "on Hogan's dick", for example.

 

EDIT: Took out a sentence here that didn't really need to be part of the post and was a little hostile on my part.

[El-P]

Lawler especially rarely seems to grasp what's happening or what is important to the story.

 

Lawler is even more useless than Heenan was in WCW. Lecherous old man Lawler was annoying as hell during the Attitude Era, but Corporate HoF Lawler is just not even there anymore.

[SomethingSavage]

Maybe I'm in the minority or out of the loop on general consensus, but I don't care. I dug Attitude Era Lawler. It's the only time I found Jerry tolerable as an announcer, to be honest. Everything after his 2001 return has been terrible though. Heck, I think it goes back to the face turn against Tazz, really. Once he stopped being the voice of the heels and lightened up, it just took the life & the spark right out of his act as an announcer.

[bradhindsight]

Here's a POV video of Rollin's jump last night. Crazy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKvzFBztzjM

 

 

edit: Sorry Loss, I failed at the embed code there.

[dexstar]

 

Lawler especially rarely seems to grasp what's happening or what is important to the story.

 

Lawler is even more useless than Heenan was in WCW. Lecherous old man Lawler was annoying as hell during the Attitude Era, but Corporate HoF Lawler is just not even there anymore.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm in the minority or out of the loop on general consensus, but I don't care. I dug Attitude Era Lawler. It's the only time I found Jerry tolerable as an announcer, to be honest. Everything after his 2001 return has been terrible though. Heck, I think it goes back to the face turn against Tazz, really. Once he stopped being the voice of the heels and lightened up, it just took the life & the spark right out of his act as an announcer.

 

I found Lawler to be ok during the Attitude Era. I was a 16ish year old white male though, so pretty much squarely what they were aiming for. Sometimes he got annoying but at least he was engaged. As El-P points out, he's just not even pretending to care anymore. Usually on PPVs (errr special events...) it seems like the three would focus a bit more on the matches and that makes sense to me, but last night was as bad as a normal Raw, where it's just joke after joke after joke then awkward dead air. There seems to me to be very little chemistry in the current setup. And it just feels old - Lawler has been the voice of Raw for what seems like a billion years, Cole has been around forever, JBL and Cole have been working together for a long time, etc. I'd love to just hear a month or two of Cole/Regal/Renee or something different.

[SomethingSavage]

The worst part about modern day Lawler, for me, is that he's apparently dragging down the ENTIRE commentary booth. His bad jokes and poor timing have become this infectious cancer that has spread over to Bradshaw, who was at least quite the breath of fresh air upon his initial return to the table. Now it's just like the announcers have become this thing that you have to tolerate to get the rest of the show.

 

And while I agree that some shifting and moving around should be in order behind the booth, I don't exactly know WHO ya plug into that spot. It's a matter of trust and faith, really. And that's a big leap to take when you're talking LIVE television. So I can't fault 'em too much for being resistant or hesitant to that sort of change. And while they've got younger, newer announcers at their disposal - some of them just aren't polished enough for that position yet. Yes. They do okay on NXT or whatever, but even on Main Event - the broadcast is loaded with blown calls, tripping over words, etc. And I can see how that would make them think twice.

 

Regal and Renee are solid choices. Regal's analysis SHOULD be a lock, to be honest. And I love it anytime we get Renee doing commentary on NXT, but I'm not so sure it'd translate the same in terms of putting her as a permanent voice at the booth. She's got this lively, bubbly, energetic, and exuberant presence. But I could see it becoming too much too quickly if it's done on a regular basis. Sometimes, less is more there.

 

I personally dig the idea of a rotating cast around Cole (as the anchor), although I don't think that'd ever be done for anything more than a brief, temporary basis.

 

But going back to Attitude Era Lawler for a moment? It's awfully bizarre how a middle-aged man seemed to fit so well into THAT environment, and yet he's seemed completely outdated & out of his element in anything & everything ever since.

[Tim Evans]

I'm stunned people thought last night's Cena/Wyatt match was worse than the Mania match. At least this one had some wrestling. That mania match was on the biggest show of the year and they did a house show match. Both were awful though.