Grimmas Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Discuss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 One of the most influential wrestlers of his era and that is as a Japanese wrestler working in a major US promotion for not even a full year. I remember going to loads of shows in 1989 and watching fans in awe of what Muta was doing in the ring because he was so athletic plus had a great look. Then watching him go back home to Japan where he would become a megastar and working in some of the most memorable matches of the decade was great. Muta's rebirth in 2001 was one of the great comebacks ever as he had his new look and rejuvenated in the ring becoming one of the hottest performers in the business was amazing to watch because a lot of us thought he was basically washed up in 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Muto is simultaneously great and annoying. There's too many moments where he's risen to the occasion to be ignored, but he's wildly inconsistent. A strange career path too, I can't really think of anyone analogous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Muto's problem at times was that he suffered an identity crisis as he couldn't decided whether he wanted to be himself or his altar ego. Muto was also his worst enemy in that regard because working as Muta he had to do the moonsault in every match which killed his knees and aged him way earlier than he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Even now, when he is completely broken down Mutoh is a guy whose stuff I make sure to check out (the big matches at least, I have no desire to watch unmotivated Mutoh). I don't really think any of his current/recent stuff is great, but he always brings certain ideas and moments to matches that I find interesting. He deserves credit for managing to work around his limitations and doing so in a captivating manner. A few years ago I'd have said I hate him and there's no way he'd make my top 100. Now I'm not so sure. Pretty much all of the criticism I had against him still stands but I've seen him in too many great matches to just outright ignore him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 He's the most polarizing guy in the field for me. When I was a kid, him and Lyger absolutely mystified me, and then later on, seeing him make his comeback in 2001 was the craziest thing ever. But man he was a part of some shit stuff, too. Really tough to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 In contention for laziest wrestler of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 In contention for greatest laziest wrestler of all time. See also : Muraco, Don. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 "... and even if he's a lazy worker, and the Muta was certainly that -- quite possibly the laziest in Japan... which would place him high in the runnin' for laziest worldwide -- but sometimes there's a worker... sometimes there's a worker. Wal, I lost m'train of thought here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It amazes me that this is a world where some people will still defend Big Daddy, yet a guy who takes a buncha bumps and does moonsaults in almost every match can possibly be considered the laziest of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 There are plenty of good Mutoh performances out there. I just watched his 1991 G1 match with Vader that was damn fine, and his performance was right there neck and neck with Leon's. I seem to recall someone in the yearbook threads at that point having Mutoh in the running for his Wrestler of the Year. The problem is that was 1991. Mutoh wrestled forever after that and has plenty of matches that people could point to when he was just a dog. Hence why folks ages ago came up with the Good Mutoh / Bad Muta reference point: "This was rocking as Good Mutoh showed up." "Of god lord what a stinker - Bad Mutoh showed up for this one." That he'd dust off the moonsault at the end didn't redeem a match where he laid around and didn't want to do much. Is he the laziest wrestler ever? I think folks are just having fun tossing that at him to get across that he was far too often a lazy worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It amazes me that this is a world where some people will still defend Big Daddy, yet a guy who takes a buncha bumps and does moonsaults in almost every match can possibly be considered the laziest of all time. No-one defends Daddy the worker. He is more culturally significant in his home country than Muto though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It amazes me that this is a world where some people will still defend Big Daddy, yet a guy who takes a buncha bumps and does moonsaults in almost every match can possibly be considered the laziest of all time. He's not the laziest wrestler of all time. That's called hyperbole. Who the fuck knows who the laziest wrestler of all time is? Doing moonsaults doesn't mean a thing. If anything the moonsault is a crutch because Muto knows he doesn't have to do a whole lot else as long as he goes out and hits THE BIG MOVE. He's a talented guy who can be very good but he totally coasts on his athleticism and charisma. There are plenty of matches where he doesn't do much and simply lets his opponent go through some offense while he takes it in the least compelling way possible until its time to hit his spots. There are times where he acts as is he'd rather be anywhere else and can't be bothered to take notice of the match that he's involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It amazes me that this is a world where some people will still defend Big Daddy, yet a guy who takes a buncha bumps and does moonsaults in almost every match can possibly be considered the laziest of all time. No-one defends Daddy the worker. He is more culturally significant in his home country than Muto though. Culturally, the US has never seen anything like Big Daddy. The closest comparisons are Rikdozan and El Santo - both are much bigger than Daddy though. However when Daddy passed it was front page news on all the tabloid newspapers, and was the lead story on BBC and ITV news on the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 In the context of wrestling - and probably other things - being "lazy" is relative. For my money if you have a shit ton of ability and choose to coast on the bare minimum, you are lazier than a guy who had a gimmick based around morbid obesity, and actually worked that gimmick to its logical conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 He's a talented guy who can be very good but he totally coasts on his athleticism and charisma. Not the worst things to rely on as a wrestler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 He's a talented guy who can be very good but he totally coasts on his athleticism and charisma. Not the worst things to rely on as a wrestler Yeah I love when a wrestler does a few high spots, plays to the crowd here and there and then does nothing else but look indifferent to his opponent whose trying to have an actual match for the other 17 minutes of a 20 minute match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Mutoh relied way more on charisma, cool mannerisms and the fact he was already over than he did on athleticism for the majority of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Mutoh had a shot of cracking my list in the begining, but I've seen him have too many terrible performances recently to consider him. At his worst, he's a terrible wrestler. At his best, he's good, but not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I will also note that I'm not a fan of the Muta character at all, hate both him coasting by doing random shit to look as "strange" as possible and pretty much any match he's in with a blade job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 That match against Hase is amazing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Would like to see what you think of Hase vs. Muto from September 1993, pretty stark difference to the 12/92 match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 When I was a kid I always had the impression Muta was this great legend. Watching old 89 NWA footage where "the Japanese attacked Ric Flair" at GAB made me believe that. With that aura that I believed, I also assumed he was a great worker. I hadn't seen anything though. After seeing some of his work over the years it just doesn't seem likely at all that he'll make my ballot. He's still fun in 89, but not really close to great. I like him alright on the 80s NJ set when he shows up, but he's so unpolished and lesser than everyone else that it doesn't mean much. I've barely scraped his 90s stuff aside from the 90 Hase match. That IS a GREAT match to be fair. Although, I remember liking Hase in it just as much if not more. I might take a surface glance at some of his 90s-00s work, but he never has fit the bill of a great wrestler to me. Fun at times, inadequate at others. I can appreciate someone who sells a kid's punch (that's Muta right), but not enough that jumps out as much as top 100 level output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 I was surprised to see Muto ranked 66th in 2016. I feel like theres no chance he gets that high again. Anyone gonna go to bat for Muto? I feel like I probably like him more than most folks around here but I think his chances of cracking my list are slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Muto is someone I plan to a deeper dive on because he definitely seems like a controversial pick. From the little I've seen, wrestling as himself he could be great but as Muta he relied too much on the gimmick and charisma. And while I haven't seen any of the matches, his current run as NOAH champ has been super polarizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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