Tommy Rich

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[goodhelmet]

Unless somebody else steps up and declares they will be the high voter for Tommy Rich, I will probably be the high voter for Tommy Rich. Loved his early Memphis stuff. Loved his post-World title run Memphis stuff. Wished their was more Georgia footage out there. He has enough complete high-end matches that I have no problem putting him high on my list. Add that he made the transition to a great mouthpiece for the FBI and Rich is A+ in my book.

[Phil Schneider]

He definitely has a footage issue, I imagine if more Omni and Mid-South Coliseum stuff was available he would be a top 20 guy, but there are a really paucity of on tape EPIC Rich matches.

[Phil Schneider]

Me and Will watched an awesome Tommy Rich v. Brad Armstrong brawl from late 80's Georgia. It only goes about five minutes but is awesome. Rich looks like Kawada or Finlay as he just beats the shit out of Armstrong, we have some sightings of Mr. Donnie the greatest scumbag manager of all time and then a post match where Brad smears Rich's blood all over the hood of a white car. Man Tommy is great, I don't know how high I am going to put him, but my guess is too high

[Phil Schneider]

Kris posted that match on youtube. Everyone should watch it

 

[elliott]

That was such a great little brawl. They packed a ton of shit into 5 minutes but it never felt like they were going overboard with a million spots. Just a fast paced hard hitting match. Tommy was really great bumping and stooging for Brad and then looked like a vicious ass kicker when he took over. Great find. Tommy is another guy I plan on watching a ton of for this project. I think the announcer said "Brad Armstrong" 150 times in this 5-6 minutes.

[peachchaos]

What are the really high end Tommy Rich matches?

 

I love the guy, I'm just not sure I've seen the best he has to offer.

[goodhelmet]

The Jerry Lawler series from 87 and 88.

[Memphis Mark]

Tommy Rich 's mother was gold. How can anyone top Peggy Rich came on Memphis TV to begged Tommy to end his evil ways and got beat down by Handsome Jimmy and Tojo .

 

Tommy feud with Eddie Gilbert needs to be mentioned . Tommy and Eddie had a nice series with Koko Ware and Novrel Austin . Also the Rich cousins feud with The Nightmares stands out in my memory .

[goc]

Anyone wanting to see some of Tommy teaming with cousin Johnny should check out The Nightmares thread where I've uploaded a few of those matches on to youtube.

[PhilTLL]

Since a lot of guys seem to have spotty late-career runs, I will say I've been enjoying his JTTS run in WCW so far. He doesn't get a lot to do but improves most of what he gets to do. Just full of veteran...naturalness? The Luger stuff was adequate. The Gilbert pairing works fine even if it is a bit awkward to see both guys just filling time. He has that fun match with Race at GAB 90. The only knock I have is that he's not in very good shape. He gets a go with Flair that should be on the level of Flair's better TV work from 89-90 but just isn't because Rich is a bit blown up.

(As you can see I have a ways to go on it. We'll see if my WCW rewatch even makes it to the York Foundation.)

[JerryvonKramer]

If this was Sweatiest Wrestler Ever, Rich would be number 1.

[shoe]

Anyone wanting to see some of Tommy teaming with cousin Johnny should check out The Nightmares thread where I've uploaded a few of those matches on to youtube.

I really liked that feud. Some of the matches were great.

[cheapshot]

If this was Sweatiest Wrestler Ever, Rich would be number 1.

Tied with Brock Lesnar.

[El-P]

And Mike Rotundo.

[elliott]

Has anyone watched much post ECW indy worker Tommy Rich? Anything worth seeking out? I came across a match against Steve Corino from PWX (no date) that looks interesting.

[Dylan Waco]

That match is a great Corino performance, but Rich is pretty much a warm body

[elliott]

Right on. I like Corino a lot so I will check it out even if Rich doesn't do much.

[elliott]

What is Rich's best babyface run that we have on video?

[elliott]

I voted Tommy Rich 86th in 2016 and that's another one I feel good about. Footage is a bigger problem with Tommy than with others, but I still think he's awesome just about every step of the way from early stuff in Memphis up through ECW. The Last Battle of Atlanta answered a major question (is his reputed best match ever the classic it was made out to be, yes) and Rich is exactly the sort of punch first bleed first 80s redneck that I love in wrestling. 

[Loss]

Rich is in theory one of the guys who may have a stronger case now than he did in 2016, if only for the Omni stuff WWE released, but I still don't think he gets all the way there. If we had all the Omni shows that exist on tape, he'd probably easily be a top 100 pick. Not just the Last Battle of Atlanta, but matches with Flair and DiBiase that have shown a little bit more of what he could do. A big part of Rich's appeal was him being such a willing bleeder, which is why a lot of those footage issues exist. It was harder to show bloodbaths on TV. He is basically the prototype for the right way to get a wrestler over as tough to male fans when his primary appeal was to draw women. I think it works against him that he was already on the way down in 1983, at a time he was only 29 years old, but he did seem to have a fun second career too.

[AA484]

How much Georgia (Omni) stuff is actually out there in full?  My impression is that there wasn't enough to make an 80s set for it even if that project had continued.  IIRC, Florida was in the same boat, although with a little bit more available.

[Loss]

Not a lot, but there is more than there was in 2016 because of Hidden Gems on the WWE Network. They released a handful of Omni shows in full.

[Matt D]

Rich had some new Houston footage too towards the end of the last voting period or shortly thereafter, like Rich/Slater vs Dynamic Duo, but we didn't get Rich vs Bockwinkel from this card, which is one of my major regrets of the footage:

Boesch @ Houston, TX – Sam Houston Coliseum – March 26, 1982
The Grappler d. Tom Jones
Hacksaw Duggan d. Terry Gibbs
Tully Blanchard d. Frank Monte
Wayne Farris fought Chavo Guerrero to a draw
Dick Slater d. Bob Sweetan by DQ
Canek d. Gino Hernandez
AWA World Heavyweight Title: Nick Bockwinkel © d. Tommy Rich

[elliott]

In this thread: 

We posed some general questions you might ask when discussing a wrestler for the Greatest Wrestler Ever list. I’m going to tackle all of the questions in regards to Tommy Rich’s candidacy.

 

GWE Gordy List Questions:

1.        What kind of candidate is this wrestler (Peak vs Longevity,Peak+ Longevity, Big Match Wrestler, Week to Week Performer etc) and what range would you consider ranking them?

I would describe Tommy as a big match Arena worker. Based on the footage we have he has a good peak stretching from probably 1981-1987. In that era he pretty much always delivers as a face or heel in singles matches or tags. He’s good before that but our footage is limited. Tommy is good after that and sometimes great but I don’t think he’s as consistent as he was in that 81-87 era. Or at least I’d say we have the wrong type of footage but we’ll talk about that later.

I’m not sure where I’ll rank Tommy Rich. I likely will. With more arena footage from the 70s & 80s he’d almost certainly be a top 50 lock. But with what we have I’m not sure if I can firmly put him there comfortably. I think he’s more of a candidate for the bottom 50 of the list than the top 50.

2.       What is your elevator pitch for this wrestler to be a Top 100 Wrestler? (Sum up their case in a short paragraph).

Tommy was an awesome old school southern brawler. He knew how to play babyface & heel. He made his name as a babyface but might be even better as a heel. He’s great in singles & tag matches. Knows how to use selling, body language & psychology to tell stories so he can work with a wide variety of people & have a quality match with them. Great in the arena in front of a live crowd and it definitely translates on film in big matches. All time great puncher. Great bleeder. His best matches are some of the all time best and he was also in a number of classic angles.

 

2.        Were they ever the best wrestler in the world? Were they ever the best wrestler in their country? Were they ever the best wrestler in their promotion? Who were some of their competitors for the best wrestler in the world, country, and promotion?

Tommy was never the best wrestler in the world, the US or even his promotion. At his peak, Rich was in a promotion with Jerry Lawler at his peak. Lawler is a candidate for best wrestler of all time. Rich is great but he isn’t that. Rich was never the best wrestler in WCW or ECW. He may have been the best wrestler in GCW in the early 80s but its harder to get a sense because of a lack of arena footage.

 

3.        How many years were they a top worker (top worker being a candidate for top 10 wrestler in the world)? Who were some of the other top workers of this era?

I don’t think Tommy Rich was ever a top 10 worker in the world even in his prime. His prime directly lines up with some of the greatest workers of all time like Jerry Lawler, Terry Funk, Stan Hansen, Buddy Rose, El Satanico, Nick Bockwinkel, Ric Flair, Riki Choshu, Ricky Morton, Randy Savage,  Jaguar Yokota, Devil Masami, Chigusa Nagayo, Dump Matsumoto, Sgt Slaugther, Michael Hayes, Itsuki Yamazaki, Tatsumi Fujinami, Invader, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Perro Aguayo, Sangre Chicana, etc etc. I think Rich’s peak almost exactly coincides with the years I think wrestling was at its absolute strongest & deepest on a world wide level. Not being a top 10 worker in this era does not prevent someone from being a candidate for my list. Being a top 10 worker in this era basically guarantees you’re a top 50 worker on my list.

 

4.        Were they a great worker before their prime? Were they a great worker after their prime? How great were they (were they a best in the world, country, promotion candidate while before their prime/after their prime)

It is hard to get a sense of Tommy before his prime. He looks good in the brief amount of footage we have from the 70s but not really enough to determine how good he really was. Good enough to get a push & opportunities at a very young age. After his prime Tommy showed flashes of greatness. I wasn’t able to find as much mid 90s indy arena footage as I would’ve liked but what we do have reflects very well on Tommy. He was capable of having very good performances as late as 2001. Again consistent footage is difficult to come by after this but eventually Tommy does fall apart and reaches a point where you don’t really want to watch him any more even if he can still be carried by a more talented performer.

At his peak, Tommy was really great. In another era he would’ve been a best in the world candidate but because he was in such a stacked time period he could never crack the truly elite tier. But he was knocking on the door underneath it.

 

5.        Did they have the opportunities to produce a large body of excellent matches?
IF YES

Yes!

5a Do they have a large body of excellent matches?

I would describe it as a fair amount of excellent matches due to the footage bias. When we got a look at Tommy in Mid South Coliseum or the Omni or some other arena, he looks fucking amazing and tends to deliver great matches. Even past his prime when he gets a chance to work a match for a live crowd he can still really deliver quality work. Unfortunately so much of what we have of Tommy is these short 2-6 minute rote TV matches. I know “you can have a great 5 minute match” but that wasn’t the expectation or business model. These are like showcase exhibition matches that leave you wanting to see the arena matches and that’s exactly what they do. And then when we see the arena matches ,oh boy does Tommy deliver.

5b Do they have a large body of excellent matches against a variety of opponents?

We’ve got excellent matches with Austin Idol, Bill Dundee, Masked Superstar, Jerry Lawler, Buzz Sawyer, Ted Dibiase, Eddie Gilbert, Abdullah the Butcher, Brad Armstrong, Lex Luger, Dick Murdoch, Harley Race, Terry Funk, and Steve Corino. When you add in tag matches you get even more including Bam Bam Bigelow, Stan Lane, Steve Keirn, Arn Anderson, Ole Anderson, Michael Hayes, Jimmy Garvin, Snowman, Soul Train Jones, The Nightmares, Phil Hickerson, The Spoiler, The Pretty Young Things, Tully Blanchard, Gino Hernandez, Dutch Mantell, The Bounty Hunters. Pretty large variety of people. Some all time greats and some ok people.

5c Do they have a large body of excellent matches in a variety of settings? (for example singles, tags, gimmicks, no gimmicks, brawls, technical, short matches, long matches etc)

Not as many technical matches, though there’s some solid ones mixed in including a weirdly fun straight up match with Moondog Rex in Memphis. But otherwise yes Tommy shines in singles, tags as the babyface as the heel, in arenas especially. He’s great in violent brawls and schticky stoogy stuff.

5d How much of those excellent matches were a direct result of their performance?

Many of them. The really outlandish one is Halloween Havoc 1990 where he teams with Ricky Morton against the MX and Morton works 99.9% of the match. But otherwise Tommy always adds to his matches with and is a big part of why they’re great. He’s a great brawler who participates in great brawls for the most part.
 

6.        Do they work in a way that is consistent with the way they're booked & presented?

Definitely. Tommy is really great switching between face & heel, working within a hierarchy etc.

7.        What are their standout traits? (For example, selling, psychology, offense, character work etc)

Tommy is great at babyface selling from underneath. Heel stooging & bumping. Great punches. Psychology & match structure. Great at switching gears as a heel going from a stooging more comedic routine to a hard hitting vicious fighter within the same match.

 

8.        Did they make the people and workers around them better?

Yes. Tommy was a willing bumper & seller as a babyface and would stooge out as a heel to put his opponent over. Tommy is also really good at adding structure & story to matches which helps more inexperienced workers have good matches.

 

9.        Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler was better or worse than they appeared?

Tommy is hurt badly by footage availability. He’s absolutely amazing in arena matches working in front of a live crowd in his prime and even in his post prime. But the majority of the footage we have of Tommy is either in short rote GCW TV matches meant to act as a showcase to get you to want to come to the arena. And then post prime WCW TV matches where he really just farts around unfocused for about 3 years with plenty of quality performances but rarely in a featured role. If we had as many Omni Arena matches in complete form as we did GCW TV matches there’s little doubt that Tommy would fly up my list. But he’s really hurt by the setting of the footage. If you watch him against Austin Idol at the Omni or Jerry Lawler in Mid South Coliseum you can see the wrestler Tommy Rich really was. You don’t get as good of a sense of him in the endless sea of WCW matches.

 

10.      If you had to pick 5-10 matches (Or more) to sell someone on this wrestler what would they be? (Not necessarily the best matches but ones that are best representative of the wrestlers’ GWE case).

Spoiler

 

Tommy Rich vs Austin Idol (GCW – 11/4/81)

Tommy Rich & Dick Slater vs Tully Blanchard & Gino Hernandez (2/3 Falls – Houston – 12/11/81)

Tommy Rich vs Buzz Sawyer (Last Battle of Atlanta Cage Match – GCW – 10/23/83)

Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs Pretty Young Things (Falls Count Anywhere – CWA – 5/14/84)

Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs Phil Hickerson & The Spoiler (Tennessee Street Fight – CWA – 6/25/84)

Tommy Rich & Steve Armstrong vs The Nightmares (CCW – 6/22/85)

Tommy Rich vs Jerry Lawler (CWA – 12/29/86)

Tommy Rich & Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow (Double Jeopardy – CWA – 3/16/87)

Tommy Rich & Austin Idol vs Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death Match – CWA – 3/23/87)

Tommy Rich vs Terry Funk (ECW – 2/1/97)

 

 

 

11.      Feel free to recommend more matches here if you like!

Spoiler

 

Tommy Rich vs Austin Idol (GCW on WTBS – 2/23/80)

Tommy Rich vs Bill Dundee (CWA – 8/23/80)

Tommy Rich & Bill Dundee vs Bounty Hunters (CWA – 2/2/81)

Tommy Rich & Bill Dundee vs Bounty Hunters (CWA – 2/9/81)

Tommy Rich & Bill Dundee vs Austin Idol & Dutch Mantell (CWA – 3/12/81)

Tommy Rich vs Buck Robley (GCW on WTBS – 5/31/81)

Tommy Rich vs Masked Superstar (Lumberjack Match – GCW – 9/21/81)

Tommy Rich vs Buzz Sawyer (GCW on WTBS – 1/28/82)

Tommy Rich vs Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW – 2/25/83)

Tommy Rich vs Kamala (Houston – 7/29/83)

Tommy Rich vs Ted Dibiase (GCW – 11/6/83)

Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs Pretty Young Things (CWA – 4/12/84)

Tommy Rich vs King Kong Bundy (CWA  - 7/23/84)

Tommy Rich vs Eddie Gilbert (CWA – 8/13/84)

Tommy Rich vs Moondog Rex (CWA – 4/22/85)

Tommy Rich & Johnny Rich vs The Nightmares (CCW – 10/7/85)

Tommy Rich vs Abdullah the Butcher (WWC - 1987)

Tommy Rich & Austin Idol vs The Snowman & Soul Train Jones (CWA – 2/9/87)

Tommy Rich & Austin Idol vs Billy Travis & Mark Starr (CWA – 6/8/87)

Tommy Rich & Austin Idol vs Yoshiaki Yatsu & Takashi Ishikawa (AJPW – 3/26/88)

Tommy Rich vs The Masked Invader (SCW – Late 80s)

Tommy Rich vs Brad Armstrong (SCW – 5/89)

Tommy Rich vs Eddie Gilbert (WCW – 7/28/89)

Tommy Rich vs Lex Luger (WCW – 8/18/89)

Tommy Rich vs Lex Luger (WCW Clash of the Champions VIII – 9/12/89)

Tommy Rich vs Dick Murdoch (WCW – 9/16/89)

Tommy Rich & Ranger Ross vs Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin (WCW – 11/3/89)

Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs Midnight Express (WCW – 11/12/89)

Tommy Rich vs Buzz Sawyer (WCW – 2/10/90)
Tommy Rich & Ranger Ross vs Arn Anderson & Ole Anderson (WCW – 2/25/90)

Tommy Rich vs Joel Deaton (WCW – 4/8/90)

Tommy Rich vs Joel Deaton (WCW – 4/14/90)
Tommy Rich vs Bam Bam Bigelow (WCW Clash of the Champions XI – 6/13/90)

Tommy Rich vs Harley Race (WCW Great American Bash – 7/7/90)

Tommy Rich vs Stan Hansen (WCW – 7/14/90)

Tommy Rich vs Bill Irwin (WCW Clash of the Champions XII – 9/5/90)

Tommy Rich & Ricky Morton vs Nasty Boys (WCW – 10/20/90)

Tommy Rich vs Arachnaman (WCW – 11/9/91)

Tommy Rich vs Big Josh (Lumberjack Match – WCW Clash of the Champions XVII – 11/19/91)

Tommy Rich & Doug Gilbert vs Fabulous Ones (USWA – 1995)

Tommy Rich vs Doug Gilbert (IWA-MS – 2/20/97)

Tommy Rich & Doug Gilbert vs Charlie Haas & Russ Haas (JCW – 10/20/00)

Tommy Rich vs Sabu (Cleveland All Pro Wrestling – 2/01)

Tommy Rich & Doug Gilbert & Tracy Smothers vs Sabu & Ricky Morton & Bobby Blaze (Cleveland All Pro – 2/11/01)

Tommy Rich vs Steve Corino (PWX – 4/28/12)

Tommy Rich vs Jerry Lawler (Jonesboro, AR – 10/2017)

 

 

12.   Any final thoughts you’d like to share?

 

Yeah Tommy Rich the Arena wrestler is amazing. With more footage of him working house shows in the 80s and 90s he’d be a lock for the top 50. In 2016 I ranked Tommy Rich 86th. At the beginning of this deep dive if you’d ask me where I’d rank Tommy I’d say somewhere between 50-100 or maybe not at all. If you ask me now, I’d say maybe between 50-100 or not at all. Footage bias really hurts him. If you just watch all of his WCW TV matches there’s no way hes’ a top 100 wrestler ever. But digging into that arena footage you really get to see Tommy in his element. I’m strongly leaning in favor of ranking him because he was great at the sort of wrestling I like the most.

 

 

Jmare’s question from 2022

What's the candidate's biggest weakness? Was he/she able to overcome it (or work around it) and how?"

Tommy’s biggest weakness was probably bad execution. He wasn’t going to wow you with bridging suplexes or whatever. He was able to overcome it by perfecting a style based on schtick & punching. He could do a few flashy spots but who really gives a shit if Tommy gets great height on the Lou Thesz press after he and Buzz Sawyer just tried to murder each other. Tommy’s able to craft compelling matches where you don’t really notice that his execution might not really be smooth.

 

Loss’ questions from 2015 – some of these have already been answered so I’ll just focus on the ones that haven’t really been touched on.

How does he compare to others who have taken on a similar role in different eras?

Tommy’s role was pretty unique because he went from youngest world champion ever & major star to guy trying to make his way back up the ladder before he was 35. As far as underdog babyfaces & slimeball southern heels go, Tommy definitely stands out as a memorable character & performer.

 

Was he an effective babyface and an effective heel?

Most definitely.  

 

Was he frequently tested as a worker? Could he make seemingly no-win situations work?

 It depends. In his prime from the early to mid/late 80s Tommy could really make anything work. In WCW he was tested in the sense that they didn’t really give him a focused run and just sort threw him out there to have matches. Sometimes they were really good sometimes they were disappointing. He had a good run of matches with people like Joel Deaton, Bill Irwin, Arachnaman etc. Nothing incredibly memorable but he wasn’t really featured in a way to make those matches memorable. When he got opportunities he rose to the occasion.

 

Could he carry lesser wrestlers?

I actually think Tommy was really good working with lesser workers. He’s not out there dragging dudes to MOTYC. He doesn’t have a Daniel Bryan carrying HHH to a classic moment. But Tommy knew what he could & couldn’t do & knew how to structure matches as a singles, tag team worker, babyface or heel so he could provide a psychological base of a match that allows lesser workers to just focus on doing what they can do.  

 

Could he have good and effective short matches? Could he have good and effective long matches?

 Tommy is one of the great short match workers. We don’t have a ton of really long Tommy Rich mathes. The longest top out at around 20minutes and stand out as some of his best matches.

 

What are his best physical skills? Did he use those skills well?

Great at expressive body language which allowed him to get over great as an underdog babyface and also a stooging over the top heel. You don’t need to know anything about Tommy’s career but you can flip on a match & know immediately if he’s a young up and coming babyface, a veteran beloved babyface, a dangerous heel or a comedic stooge.

 

How would you describe his psychology? Was it effective? Does it hold up to scrutiny?

Memphis master. It is definitely effective. He is able to garner crowd responses as a washed up veteran working depressing looking indy shows because he knows how to work a match.  

 

How was his selling?

One of the best of his era & a strong point. There’s not a lot of great examples of limb work if that’s what you’re looking for but Tommy is great at selling exhaustion, selling a war, selling arrogance, frustration. Selling is all about body language and this was something Rich was really exceptional at.

 

How was he at structuring matches? Did they typically have a strong beginning, middle and end?

Always. He always followed a classic southern match structure regardless of his position or heel/face alignment.  

 

Did he take chances as a worker? Did he recover well when something unexpected happened?

He honestly really doesn’t take a lot of chances. You pretty much know what you’re getting with Tommy. He didn’t really work outside of himself much. He knew what he could and couldn’t do. Occasionally he’d surprise you like the Moondog Rex match in Memphis in front of Lou Thesz that’s worked as like a classis sporting match or his singles match with Eddie Gilbert in WCW that is a classic babyface vs babyface sporting match. He shows he can do those things. But with Tommy you really are either going to get a fun TV style match or an awesome brawl.  

 

Was he influential? Did anyone copy his style, and if so, was that copying a good or bad thing for wrestling?

Tommy was not influential.  

 

How was he in tag matches and/or gimmick matches?

Tommy is a great tag worker. His teams with Eddie Gilbert, Austin Idol & Ricky Morton are probably the most memorable but he was in so many just solid random tags with a random partner.

In gimmick matches Tommy is amazing. Some of the best matches of his career are in gimmick matches. He’s great at doing wild bloody gimmicks but he was also really good at like WCW TV match gimmicks like a Lumberjack match on Clash of the Champions where its not some wild match but just a solid fun match that gets over the stipulation really well. He knows how to utilize the gimmick within the match really well. If you see a Tommy Rich gimmick match, run to it.

 

Did he have a high number of good matches?

Yes given the available footage.  

 

Was he typically the driving force in his best matches?

Yes and no. In the arena match footage he’s aways awesome and has a real understanding of crowd psychology. But he’s often in there against guys like Lawler or Austin Idol in his best matches who are also awesome.  

 

Are there any unique factors that you think play into his career that may not apply to everyone else?

He was the first national TV star and the youngest NWA World Champion ever when he won it. This set a sense of expectations for his future that he could never possibly live up to. So even though he was a GREAT wrestler in 1984 teaming with Eddie Gilbert, he was still a former World Champ who was now in a rip off tag team. Taking a step down like that on a major level in the middle of your working prime definitely has to wound your pride.

 

Lastly do you still want to watch this wrestler?

In the arena, fuck yes. But I don’t really ever need to see a WCW tag match or a GCW 4 minute singles match ever again. But if you told me there’s a new match with the Nightmares or against Austin Idol, I’d rush out to see it.