WWE TLC: Tables, Ladders, & Chairs

[El-P]

TLC as a concept is an unwatchable and dumb show to begin with. A garbage match, whatever the stip, is supposed to be unique and special. When you reach gimmick use overkill in the very first match, it makes everything that follows quickly boring and extremely repetitive. And I really thought we were way passed the point of praising stuntfests. That electrocution gimmick… It was dumb as fuck in 99 with Rock and Foley at the Rumble. It's even stupider today. Really, this whole PPV seems like a relic from the late 90's.

 

Rusev still rules though. I could watch him and Lana squash the entire roster for a year and not get bored. Ok, Lana is at least half the reason, but still. As dated as it is, it works because it's plain old pro-wrestling.

[DMJ]

I went to the show last night, had a good (albeit expensive) time. Some notes from the live perspective...

 

* Not sure if they announced it as a legit sellout, but the Q was definitely packed pretty well. A few years back, the WWE set their personal best ticket sales in Cleveland for a RAW episode featuring The Rock and I'm not sure it was THAT crowded last night, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was close. All the lower sections and middle sections were full, with even the upper upper deck probably 80% filled. As far as I know, no papering either. Cleveland loves it some WWE.

 

* Obviously, hometown hero Dolph Ziggler was very over. Great way to kickoff the show and it was cool to see him win the IC title in "his city."

 

* A fight broke out in the crowd during Swagger/Rusev that distracted a fair number of people. Still, I think everyone bit that initial Accolade and when Swagger reversed it, people were genuinely shocked.

 

* Everyone was surprised that Cena/Rollins went on early. This, in my opinion, was a mistake as the crowd was a bit burnt out for Ambrose/Wyatt. In Cleveland, Cena is still very over - aside from the initial Cena boos for his entrance, you could really tell that the crowd was pretty much 80% behind him by the end. Throw in Reigns showing up and it seems like that would've been a much more suitable way to cap off the night.

 

* Half the crowd seemed to clear out to get food or use the bathroom after Cena/Rollins - but I'm not sure its because AJ/Nikki was a "bathroom break." Its just that, after Cena/Rollins, there was a feeling that this was "intermission." In fact, I wish I had waited and had my cigarette during Ryback/Kane instead, which was probably the deadest match of the night. Ryback got a decent pop, but nothing to write home about.

 

* The main event was really fun, but it took time to wake up the crowd a little bit. Ambrose was very over. Bray Wyatt's entrance is AWESOME in person - comparable to what its like when the Undertaker shows up. With everyone holding out their phone and the non-dynamic theme song, it is just a surreal couple of minutes when you are there after all the heavy metal and pyro and cannon shots that typically announce a wrestler's arrival. The only complaints I heard were from people who wanted Ambrose to use the even-bigger ladders that were near the stage. Obviously, the ending was the ending, but overall, I think people were genuinely pleased with the show.

 

As always, the funnest part of a WWE show might be leaving a WWE show - hearing the reactions of everyone and talking to strangers about what could happen next is always fun. Again, I think the crowd left overall happy. I didn't hear anyone call it a shitty show, just that it may have been better to end with Cena/Rollins, which I agree would've made more sense.

[Zero]

The crowd fell off a cliff. Enjoyed Ziggler/Harper, Nikki Bella, Cena/Rollins, Rusev/Swagger, & most of the main event.

[Downend2005]

What are the chances of Ambrose and Reigns being the 2015 versions of Daniel Bryan and Batista? Serious question, not trolling.

Funny you mention Batista, as I actually think Reigns' push should have been patterned just like Batista's initial push in 2005.

 

Hindsight is what it is, but I think Reigns and Rollins should have both turned on Ambrose when The Shield broke up. The earliest Reigns should have gone face is either at or just after winning the 2015 Royal Rumble.

[anarchistxx]

Why maintain negativity as the first shit you talk about? Go in with what you liked first and then talk about what you didn't like. It's more civil and sensible.

 

I was reviewing the show chronologically as I watched. I said Cena/Rollins was my MOTY and pretty much perfectly laid out. The Divas match was excellent. Everything else was mediocre, and the booking of this company continues to be terrible.

 

If we only praised things what would be the point? There would be zero discussion at all. It isn't as if people are just going "that's fucking terrible", they are explaining why it is terrible, and then people who like it can counterpoint and debate. That is how discussion works. Better than a thread filled with fanboys praising everything. We all love Rob Naylor and his unbridled optimism, but if I am putting my time into watching a product I am going to criticize when it doesn't deliver.

 

Or in simpler, better put terms:

 

 

If everyone only talked about what they liked there'd be no discussion at all. Such a weird attitude.

 

This.

[anarchistxx]

What are the chances of Ambrose and Reigns being the 2015 versions of Daniel Bryan and Batista? Serious question, not trolling.

 

Pretty low. The Roman Reigns backlash seems something of a fallacy - he got a monster pop last night, and if they use him properly will continue to do so. It is just a small subsection of internet fans who feel he isn't ready for a push. He always seems over live. The worst thing they can do it start giving him long, scripted promos with lame jokes and smart ass responses. His appearances should be kept short and impactful.

 

When Batista returned he was never over, people didn't give a shit from the start. Also, Ambrose isn't nearly as over as Daniel Bryan was.

 

 

 

A garbage match, whatever the stip, is supposed to be unique and special.

 

Yeah, this. They don't even know how to work a garbage match either - just a lot of high spots strung together without any build, any tension, any teases. Dean Ambrose doing three elbow drops off the top of a ladder is ridiculous. Jeff Hardy used to sell for the rest of the match after just one of those spots.

[tigerpride]

I don't like everything they put out, I just talk about what I like and ignore what I don't like. Why waste time and energy on bitching about negativity? It solves nothing and just makes you come off as a zero. Ignore the shit you hate and revel in the shit you dig. It's not hard.

 

How can you defend stuff like Dean Ambrose jobbing to a monitor and Big Show going over Rowan? That was just awful and really brought down the PPV. Dean Ambrose is such a loser at this point

[TRMD]

I only caught the Divas Match, Ryback/Kane, Rusev/Swagger, and Ambrose/Wyatt.

 

The Divas Match was actually okay. Nikki actually worked over AJ's back for a portion of the match. Really liked the old school finish.

 

Ryback/Kane was way too slow. At some points they would get some momentum, but it would be squandered by the slow ass pace. Finish also seemed out of nowhere, but not in a good way.

 

I fucking loved Rusev/Swagger. They really got the story of "[insert wrestler] hates [insert wrestler] so god damn much. But he's just not good enough to beat him." down to a science.

 

Ambrose/Wyatt was a solid match in my opinion. I actually liked the finish, because it legitimately caught me by surprise. But there were things in the match that fell flat to me. I thought Ambrose's elbow off of the Super Ladder was very anticlimactic. Maybe I'm just too used to seeing shit like that? Or maybe Ambrose not even climbing to the top step and just kind of falling off of it felt less impactful?

[WingedEagle]

This show opened fantastically and got progressively worse. Kane/Ryback was more nonsense. If you don't want to push Ryback that's fine, make that decision and either don't feature him or job him out quickly. If you do, don't waste 10 minute of his and my time in a match that doesn't help him. Maybe I was incapable of enjoying the main event because I've just about washed my hands of Wyatt, but on the other hand my expectations for him are so low it shouldn't be too hard to exceed them. That didn't happen here. I think Ambrose is great, and maybe its just the taint of Wyatt's stink, but his overdone facials and twitchy selling weren't doing it for me tonight either.

 

I can't help but think Rumble will be good because Cena/Brock almost has to be very good at worst and the Rumble should be enjoyable. At a minimum, there's certainly a high level of intrigue to see if they stick with Reigns, and if so, what the plan is to heat him up for Mania. I didn't like his promo last night. Was it blooper reel bad? Not at all. But it was also not remotely a performance that has be excited to watch someone crowned in the biggest moment at the biggest show of the year. Its a high standard.

[goc]

 

I don't like everything they put out, I just talk about what I like and ignore what I don't like. Why waste time and energy on bitching about negativity? It solves nothing and just makes you come off as a zero. Ignore the shit you hate and revel in the shit you dig. It's not hard.

 

How can you defend stuff like Dean Ambrose jobbing to a monitor and Big Show going over Rowan? That was just awful and really brought down the PPV. Dean Ambrose is such a loser at this point

 

Is Rowan really a guy that has a future? Based on the finish of the Cena/Rollins match, I expect the plan was to try and put a little heat on Big Show before feeding him to Reigns.

 

I liked Ziggler/Harper the best but I also thought Ryback/Kane was better than people are giving it credit for.

[sporadic]

Echoing some things said earlier from others: Mizdow and Ziggler vs Harper were the only enjoyable things to watch last night. As someone else said, this show reeked of Hogan-era Dungeon of Doom nonsense. What a way to build morale up in your main roster, especially after the NXT show on Thursday...

[Bierschwale]

Ambrose- I'm already seeing the crowds die a bit for him because of how they've made him look dumb. I think they might be coming close to missing their chance with him.

 

I'm beginning to think that they've pretty much followed the plan with Ambrose exactly as they wanted. He couldn't even beat Rollins in FCW. He was almost always the fall guy in The Shield who could just do the talking that Reigns/Rollins couldn't. I can't ever remember him getting the pin in one of their six-mans. He only has three singles match wins on PPV, the last being at NoC 2013. He's like a JTTS who can still main event a PPV.

[Matt D]

I think a loss where you control most of the match and have the biggest moments is worth more than a win where you look like an absolute chump the whole time.

 

Granted, a win where you don't look like a chump the whole time is probably worth more.

[shoe]

 

 

 

 

I don't like everything they put out, I just talk about what I like and ignore what I don't like. Why waste time and energy on bitching about negativity? It solves nothing and just makes you come off as a zero. Ignore the shit you hate and revel in the shit you dig. It's not hard.

How can you defend stuff like Dean Ambrose jobbing to a monitor and Big Show going over Rowan? That was just awful and really brought down the PPV. Dean Ambrose is such a loser at this point

Is Rowan really a guy that has a future? Based on the finish of the Cena/Rollins match, I expect the plan was to try and put a little heat on Big Show before feeding him to Reigns.

 

I liked Ziggler/Harper the best but I also thought Ryback/Kane was better than people are giving it credit for.

I didn't want to see Show go over Rowan, but the booking made sense for later in the show.

[shoe]

Plus it wouldn't shock me if we got Reigns -Show in February .

[W2BTD]

Let's face it, Rowan doesn't have any serious long term star potential anyway. He'll be way down the card in six months, probably doing comedy. He's on the roster because he's big, and had the right look for the Wyatt gimmick.

[Bierschwale]

I think a loss where you control most of the match and have the biggest moments is worth more than a win where you look like an absolute chump the whole time.

 

Well, he dominated HIAC and TLC, and came out on top at SS without winning and NoC without having a match. I just think that it's the "reason to believe" factor. I'm a huge Ambrose fan because he's the most charismatic guy in the company and at worst around #7 as a worker, by my incredibly scientific ranking system.

 

But if I go into a match like I did last night thinking "When are The Ascension going to coming out and schmozz this?" (somehow, they did something worse), like a lot of people, you can't get around it being a bad thing and them giving people a reason to stop caring because they don't think that he'll actually win.

[sporadic]

 

I think a loss where you control most of the match and have the biggest moments is worth more than a win where you look like an absolute chump the whole time.

 

Well, he dominated HIAC and TLC, and came out on top at SS without winning and NoC without having a match. I just think that it's the "reason to believe" factor. I'm a huge Ambrose fan because he's the most charismatic guy in the company and at worst around #7 as a worker, by my incredibly scientific ranking system.

 

But if I go into a match like I did last night thinking "When are The Ascension going to coming out and schmozz this?" (somehow, they did something worse), like a lot of people, you can't get around it being a bad thing and them giving people a reason to stop caring because they don't think that he'll actually win.

 

 

I like Ambrose too based on personality factor. I also liked Austin based on the same scale due to his WCW/ECW work/promos.

 

Like you, I kept thinking someone outside (Harper) was going to come in and cost Ambrose the match instead of the Monitor-Of-Doom shit they pulled. Right now the picture is this from my view: Lesnar, Cena, Reigns, Rollins, Orton, and everyone else can go get bent.

 

Vince sure knows how to make stars....

[shoe]

Let's face it, Rowan doesn't have any serious long term star potential anyway. He'll be way down the card in six months, probably doing comedy. He's on the roster because he's big, and had the right look for the Wyatt gimmick.

 

Or he clicks/lucks into the right gimmick like Glen Jacobs with Kane.

[funkdoc]

i feel like they should be going for a bit of the goldberg vibe with reigns, i.e. "badass who barely talks but goes out there and kicks everyone's ass night after night". his look & his signature moves definitely fit that profile...

 

he hasn't been a good promo thus far, which is a huge strike given how WWE pushes their top faces.

[Steenalized]

Let's face it, Rowan doesn't have any serious long term star potential anyway. He'll be way down the card in six months, probably doing comedy. He's on the roster because he's big, and had the right look for the Wyatt gimmick.

Rowan will likely never be THE guy, but I can easily see him slotting into the Kane spot of big guy who's always around and used to (try to) make people look better.

 

Edit: shoe beat me to it.

[W2BTD]

 

Let's face it, Rowan doesn't have any serious long term star potential anyway. He'll be way down the card in six months, probably doing comedy. He's on the roster because he's big, and had the right look for the Wyatt gimmick.

Rowan will likely never be THE guy, but I can easily see him slotting into the Kane spot of big guy who's always around and used to (try to) make people look better.

 

Edit: shoe beat me to it.

 

 

Sure, I could see that, but in relation to the idea that Big Show going over was a mistake because Rowan is some big time up & comer who could have used a big win, well, I don't buy that as a booking criticism here. Rowan losing isn't that big of a deal. And quite honestly, beating Big Show isn't that big of a deal.

[Brady]

Not a great card. Outside of the Ziggler match, the rest was mediocre to crappy.

 

Btw, I saw the question here re: Cena's placement on the card. From what I understand, they've changed the way they time out the off-brand ppvs. Just like HIAC, he went on at approximately 9pm EST in order to counter program television shows that start at that hour and so that the core Cena audience (children) are able to see him.

[S.L.L.]

Did...did I see a PPV main event end with a wrestler getting defeated by faulty wiring?

 

Is Dean Ambrose being stalked by the same Phantom of the Opera that tried to kill Vince at the 2008 WWE Draft? Because that could be kinda hilarious. Ambrose is the kind of guy I could see making a feud with a person whose existence is only even suggested by scenery falling apart entertaining. I mean, it would be a huge waste of him, and this was phenomenally stupid regardless, but he seems like he could make that fun.

[Sidebottom]

Did...did I see a PPV main event end with a wrestler getting defeated by faulty wiring?

 

No no, Michael clearly stated short circuit, so I believe we have Dean's Royal Rumble opponent figured...