WingedEagle Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Its been a few months since this idea and project were launched. If you've watched a decent amount of wrestling in that time you might have some new thoughts about your rankings or confirmed some initial ones. Any surprises as you've been watching? Who's moving up or falling down your list? Who's solidified their position? Who are you on the fence about? I'd love to hear some general thoughts as your list develops. On my end: Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi -- Pretty confident these three have solidified themselves as #1-3. Right now the order is Kobashi, MIsawa, Kawada. There's a lot of Flair I want to watch but am not sure if he or anyone can break into this club. Takayama -- Might have been best in the world during first half of the aughts . Not sure where that puts him on an all timers list, but he's going higher than he would've a few months ago. Daniel Bryan Danielson -- Lock for top 15. Joshi -- I thought Toyota would be among the select few who place for me and do fairly well. Its not going to happen. Between wanting to mute most of her matches and seeming to have only only one speed and style (albeit one that can really stand out) she won't be there. Mayumi Ozaki absolutely will. Not sure I have seen or even can see enough to put her there, but Shinobu Kandori wants in as well. Shawn Michaels/Bret Hart-- penciled HBK in as a top 10er early on and Hart as top 20. Thinking that could fall to top 30-40 for Michaels and lower for Hart, at best. Enjoying them as I go through yearbooks and network footage, but there's a difference between good or standing out in WWF versus standing out all time. Tommy Rich -- if I remember to watch enough of him he'll make it. If not he'll be a casualty due to lack of exposure. This is the type of sleazeball I like from the territories. Hopefully can come up with more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm still in the camp where Flair is my obvious #1, but I've now thrown Jumbo back into the Top 5 mix. Flair, Funk, Lawler, Hansen and Jumbo will be my 1-5 in some way. As I said last night, Slaughter is going to be in that 50-75 range for me after the Final Conflict build and match. Just amazing stuff from him. One of the best guys at getting over a feud and making the blowoff that much more special, even if he doesn't have this constant barrage of stuff top tier guys have. He's got plenty of stuff that's better than most top tier guy's best. My most difficult task is going to be placing the modern guys. I know Bryan will be my highest, but Zayn's had a great decade and while his style of matches on the indies aren't everyone's cup of tea, I think he shined bright in the big matches and made them worthwhile. Of course, since debuting on NXT, he's been fantastic as well. Off the top of my head, Bryan is in the 25-50 range while Zayn would be in the 75-100 range. I think I'm gonna have something like a half dozen joshi wrestlers, but I'm not sure who's gonna be the top between Aja, Hokuto and Yokota. As I said in the Kobashi thread, I'm gonna have Taue above Kobashi, but I'll probably have Kawada in my Top 10, Misawa right below him, and then Taue in the Top 25 with Kobashi right below him. Only Musketeer I have going in right now is Hash, even though I have a soft spot for Mutoh. Lucha guys and more 80's territory-based guys are my big blind spots right now that I hope to fill. Maybe have a chance to get into the European stuff that has been showing up lately on Arthur Psycho's YouTube channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Arthur Psycho uploads fringe Reslo stuff and late period WoS. tellumyort has most of the best stuff that aired on The Wrestling Channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I've had a lot of competing demands over the past couple of months and so I haven't been able to devote as much time to evaluating footage for this as I would have liked. I've been struggling to keep up with basic watching for podcasts, and I've even had to drop out of certain shows (see upcoming Titans #43). Main changes for me recently: - Jumbo has overtaken Flair as my #1. It is extremely difficult to see anyone finishing above Flair and Jumbo as my 1 and 2. Misawa has a good shot at being #3. - Arn Anderson is now a lock top 20 and whatever happens I will make sure he's there somewhere. - Somewhat related, I've reverted back to tending towards considering "total package" over "great matches" as my main criteria. Candidates do need great matches, but they are FAR from my only criteria. - My estimation of Bruno has dipped slightly, didn't like the Baba match and he's in danger of dropping out of my 100. - As things stand (having seen upto 92), Kobashi will not be in my top 50. He's going to have to become a LOT better over the next couple of years to rank. He hasn't impressed me at all thus far. - John Cena likely will not rank period. I still have a lot to see, but I feel like I've watched as many Cena matches as I have for many candidates and I just do not value the style he works. I don't value it and therefore I don't want to reward it. I don't think we can eradicate style bias from our thinking. - Brian Pillman is someone I need to think about. - Barry Windham will likely finish in top 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Wow a lot of interesting revelations there Parv in regards to Bruno and Windham. My status quo has stayed about the same. One thing that maybe can be in play as we get closer to the deadline is a GWE watching night where we can create a playlist of a variety of stuff/workers and watch the matches together. I think this may be better overall since looking at my overall wrestling goals for 2015, I can't see myself fully engaging in 80's joshi, WOS, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Bruno wasn't someone I planned on looking at but the Baba match is on deck at some point as I feel like he deserves a spot based on the Destroyer match, Hansen feud and his role in many great tags and six mans. Pretty amazing what he did late career given his limitations. Parv, I hope Kobashi makes his way up your list but am optimistic as only being through '92 you haven't yet touched his peak runs, let alone anything from last decade. Pretty soon you'll be shedding tears and pumping your fist before missing moonsaults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 One thing that maybe can be in play as we get closer to the deadline is a GWE watching night where we can create a playlist of a variety of stuff/workers and watch the matches together. I think this may be better overall since looking at my overall wrestling goals for 2015, I can't see myself fully engaging in 80's joshi, WOS, etc. I think this is a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 yeah parv, long-time consensus holds that kobashi was the best in the world in 1993. and that means a ton to the typical voter for this thing, as the early-mid 90s is often seen as the all-time pinnacle of in-ring action throughout the world. kobashi doesn't really shine as much as you'd expect on the '93 yearbook though, as he didn't have the peak matches of a couple other guys. apparently he was more of a consistently great week-to-week guy, like a better arn anderson i guess? if i had to guess i would say kobashi's peak would be from '93 to the january '97 match with misawa, but others here can give a much more informed opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 if i had to guess i would say kobashi's peak would be from '93 to the january '97 match with misawa, but others here can give a much more informed opinion. Kobashi was really great in '98 and had a second peak of sorts in NOAH from 2003-2005. I've never been a huge fan, per se, but I'll probably put him in my top 10 ultimately because his best matches, and his performances in those matches, were some of the most staggering efforts in pro wrestling history. I've said this elsewhere, but I'm convinced Kenta Kobashi wanted to be a great pro wrestler more passionately than anyone else I've seen. That passion led to excess, sure, but it also led to some real brilliance. Anyway, he was still a baby in '92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yeah, I'd have a hard time putting Kobashi anywhere below 15 despite my absolute hatred of the excesses he indulged in. At his best he was an incredible worker with a great understanding of how to get a crowd behind him. And even on his worst days the guy was giving 110% for the entirety of every match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Shit the more I watch the more difficult this will be. The top heap is still Funk, Hansen, Flair, Lawler, Jumbo & Kawada with Santo, Bret and Rey Jr. pushing up there. Maybe even El Dandy and Satanico the more I watch. Fuchi is now on my list, thanks to the 90's stuff. More minis will be added as well as some ECW guys. Scorpio and Tajiri are locks, but Bigelow, Sabu and Bubba Ray are guys I'd consider. My question remains, how high can I put Dustin Rhodes. I think I will be the high voter on him, but how high can I go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I've watched a bunch of Japan from the 80s and 90s since the project started. I'm confident Misawa, Kawada, Jumbo, Taue, Kobashi, Hansen, Fujiwara, Fujinami, and Choshu will all do pretty well on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ummm. Still pretty conflicted about whether to take part at all. On the one bap, I've got a shitload of footage ready to view but the thought of sitting through it all makes me feel queasy. A proper chore. Plus there's some music projects I should be focusing my free time on. But then on the other knocker, I know that I'm due to go through another "I want to watch all wrestling ever" phase in a couple of years and I'll REALLY FUCKING REGRET not participating when I had the chance. Think I might try have a little watch of some mid south stuff to ease me back, smooth like. I'll be sure to bring you updates of this fascinating life story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I was really getting in to watching a bunch of the old WOS discs that I had last year, but then had my interest killed my some of the posters on here. For what it's worth I came out of my watching and Steve Grey would've ranked the highest. I never expected that anyone would surpass Jim Breaks, and whilst if I could only watch the matches of one person that would be Breaks, Grey does him for consistency, longevity and didn't have any stinkers that Breaks had (against the likes of Bainbridge, Johnson and Kamakazi for starters, and I'm not including Grey's tags with Daddy here). Both appeared in my two favourite matches (Grey vs Cortez from '81 and Breaks vs Cortez from '76), but would probably rank the Grey one higher. Cortez would be third and Haward fourth, whilst I never got round to my Marty Jones rewatching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ummm. Still pretty conflicted about whether to take part at all. On the one bap, I've got a shitload of footage ready to view but the thought of sitting through it all makes me feel queasy. A proper chore. Plus there's some music projects I should be focusing my free time on. But then on the other knocker, I know that I'm due to go through another "I want to watch all wrestling ever" phase in a couple of years and I'll REALLY FUCKING REGRET not participating when I had the chance. Think I might try have a little watch of some mid south stuff to ease me back, smooth like. I'll be sure to bring you updates of this fascinating life story! I imagine at the end of the day most people won't have seen enough of everybody to really say they can objectively consider everything and everyone. That's the fun of it, you go with what you've seen and what you like. Enjoy the road there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ummm. Still pretty conflicted about whether to take part at all. On the one bap, I've got a shitload of footage ready to view but the thought of sitting through it all makes me feel queasy. A proper chore. Plus there's some music projects I should be focusing my free time on. But then on the other knocker, I know that I'm due to go through another "I want to watch all wrestling ever" phase in a couple of years and I'll REALLY FUCKING REGRET not participating when I had the chance. Think I might try have a little watch of some mid south stuff to ease me back, smooth like. I'll be sure to bring you updates of this fascinating life story! I imagine at the end of the day most people won't have seen enough of everybody to really say they can objectively consider everything and everyone. That's the fun of it, you go with what you've seen and what you like. Enjoy the road there! I'm under the philosophy of dipping a little into everyone hyped and then focusing on what I like. I know I will be a high voter on many and a low voter or more still. That doesn't bother me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Exactly, we'll drive ourselves crazy trying to watch a sizable quantity of everyone hyped. Don't want to lose sight of the forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I would like "Top 10 matches" packages for certain candidates. Enough to give us a flavour of someone. Maybe 10 is too much, it might be off-putting. FIVE even. Like, I've seen enough John Cena now to know that he's capped at about #80 for where he could be on my list -- he might not make it, but he's a 80-100er for me. I know his strengths and weaknesses, I've seen what I assume to be his very best performance. It's not perfect that I haven't seen all his matches ever, but I reckon I only need to see a few more matches to have seen "enough" to make a call. It would be great if someone could put together a youtube playlist or similar for guys like Akiyama who are just completely unknown quantities to me. It's difficult. As with everything one's enthusiasm rises and falls like waves, work, other interests and life also get in the way and can change momentum. But ALL of us here know that whether it's in 1 week or 2 months, there WILL be another wave. Since projects like this happen only every 10 years, it would be a shame for anyone who has a real interest in wrestling and footage to miss out on voting. NO ONE can be truly comprehensive. I'm slowly trying to do my bit to at least get certain 70s guys looked at and thought about, but I wouldn't want anyone not to vote because they hadn't seen 20 Jack Brisco matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 It would be great if someone could put together a youtube playlist or similar for guys like Akiyama who are just completely unknown quantities to me. You'll be seeing a lot of Akiyama on the Excite Series, don't worry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 My question remains, how high can I put Dustin Rhodes. I think I will be the high voter on him, but how high can I go? He's in my top 10, for what that's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 For those considering not voting... it's supposed to be fun. Don't make it a chore. Don't make it work. Don't worry about how comprehensive your list will be. Even somebody like Dylan, myself, Loss, Kris who have watched ungodly amounts of footage have blind spots, have biases that prevent us from enjoying certain wrestlers and will ultimately vote (if the others vote) on guys they like more than guys they don't enjoy. It's not science. I also don't know why somebody else would take your enjoyment away unless they are attacking you personally. The fun in projects like this are arguing for guys you love and then seeing the results when the smoke clears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 Will is spot on....I feel away from the project for a while simply because I thought I could not watch enough to contribute in a way I would like...then the pen ny dropped and I realised that this is all a bit of fun which simply involves me listing wrestlers in order of preference on the basis of what I have seen...not rocket science, and a good laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'll do what I can in the months I have remaining while balancing it with all the other things I have going on. I plan on looking at a decent amount of Destoyer, Fujinami, Fujiwara, and Baba in April/May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think I've flipped back to Flair as #1 and Jumbo as #2. I might have to toss a coin on the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think I've flipped back to Flair as #1 and Jumbo as #2. I might have to toss a coin on the day. We'll see what you say after getting through 90s All Japan. Curious if anyone there makes a run for the top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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