El McKell Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think it's possible that Styles is the most over debutant in history. C'mon, Doesn't Bill Goldberg's WWE debut blow this out of the water in terms of crowd reaction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Scott Steiner debuted at a Rumble, didn't he? That was a huge pop too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 That was Survivor Series. He had his first match at the Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I love Reigns as a wrestler, he was one of the few shining stars of 2015 WWE for me, but you have to wonder if they need to take a step back from his main event face push at the moment. For every positive crowd reaction he gets, you still get crowds booing him like last night, no matter what booking tricks they've tried to employ. They had to know last night Reigns was going to get booed the instant Styles came in, that Triple H would get the "returning star" pop, and they can't be so short-sighted as to think that Roman disappearing for half the Rumble would win the fans over, so it's hard to tell what their mindset was with that. I know it's the same thing people have said about Cena since 2005, but a heel turn would do Roman a load of good. The only problem is whether or not there's any faces strong enough to take his place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 They have been so focused on Roman Reigns that they haven't thought to build up strong opponents for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 They have been so focused on Roman Reigns that they haven't thought to build up strong opponents for him. Rusev would have been a great way to kill a secondary PPV for Reigns. Boy, he sure looked like crap tonight though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 They tried to book Perfect that way. He even got a TV main event with Austin just after this. He got zero crowd reaction and couldn't go in the ring anymore, so it didn't work. They obviously were hoping for the Mr. Perfect comeback story in 2002. Instead, they got the Goldust comeback story in 2002. One match against Austin, then they gave up on him cold turkey. Agreed about him not being able to go anymore though. Anyway, my original point was, I think we care more about the final four of the Rumble than Vince does. I'm not saying it's not important, but I bet it's not nearly as important to Vince as the final two is. AJ Styles making it to the final four wouldn't have made much of a difference to his overall standing. He'll still get whatever push he's going to get. I don't disagree with the push being what it was ultimately going to be (although final 4-6-8 might have said a lot about what KIND of push it was ultimately going to be) but I think the new guy getting that massive pop, then lasting that long and pulling out a bunch of spots and showing the uninitiated crowd what he was capable of and why he belongs in there, would only help to better serve him in the long run. Like others have said, he was no worse a pick for the iron man spot than Chris Jericho. In fact he was a better choice by almost every conceivable metric. I think him having a really tight 7 minute match with Neville or somebody on RAW tomorrow would serve to do essentially the same thing, but I'm just thinking out loud. And yeah perfect was a guy, AJ is a guy. Close enough AJ Styles will be "just another guy" in a year. Perfect is a legendary wrestler and character and a major part of WWE's history. Even a World Title for AJ won't change that (see Swagger, Jack). My point - which you keep missing or conveniently ignoring to make snarky comments - is that final four doesn't matter, and as Slasher pointed out, the final two doesn't always matter either. Santino is the most extreme example, but how often has the final two come down to obvious winner vs. obvious guy that's going to get thrown out? Every year Big Show made the final two, the outcome was never in doubt. Getting back to AJ, you said they should've put him in the final four. I say it makes no difference. He still had a good showing and he'll be pushed however he's pushed. I agree with you completely that AJ would've been a much better choice for the Iron Man spot than Jericho though. My feeling is that Jericho got it because they know he's capable of going 50, while AJ is new to the WWE and they're not entirely sure what he can do yet - outside of what they may have seen on tapes (and that's being very optimistic) or heard from others. With Jericho, they know him and they've seen firsthand for fifteen years what he is capable of. "Go with what you know" is probably how they made that decision, and let's face it, it's a meaningless spot anyway. Jericho went 50 but he may as well have gone 10 because it didn't matter to the match and didn't break any records, so it won't be on any video packages in the future. That's probably why Vince used to throw meaningless midcarders into those Iron Man spots, because it was never seen as an "honor" until the fans made it one. If anything, it was supposedly a "punishment" spot at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'm quite intruigued to see how they use AJ tonight, if they will at all. Part of me would like to see him get a quick showcase squash over someone like Rose or Miz, as that crowd would give him a huge reaction and make him look like a star on his TV debut, but part of me suspects they might take him off TV for a month and build to his Raw debut with vignettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Overall I kind of liked the show, but the rumble just felt me deflated a bit. Owens vs Ambrose was a good match, my favorite of their little feud so far. Usos vs New Day was fine. I was a little distracted, but it kind of struck me as just fine, but nothing special. U. S. Title match was deceptively fun. My wife is not a wrestling fan and she randomly got really into this one. She insisted that Del Rio was a jerk. I honestly thought it was probably the best Del Rio match since his return match with Cena It got a little off the rails at the end though. I thought the women's title match was another "fine" match. They have both done better and they have both done better with each other. It wasn't bad at all, but I was kind of hoping for more. Sasha was fantastic. I think her skill was on display in just how aggressive and sharp the few things she did were. The Rumble was overall good, but I just felt like this begged for a real surprise. HHH winning was not a real surprise. They were smart to swerve everyone with the Reigns come back. I honestly think the audience would have probably been more down on the HHH win if they weren't rooting so hard against Reigns. Styles coming in early was great, lots of time to hit his moves and "no shame" in getting eliminated when he did. I just am not that excited about the stories coming out of the Rumble so I felt sort of ho-hum about the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Would they have been better off just stretchering Reigns out never to return for the night again? Especially since he didn't even make final two anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I take back my comment about not understanding the crowd. They had Zayn come out right after AJ got dumped. They had Brock come out right after Zayn was dumped and they had Hunter come out right after Brock was dumped. That's what prevented hijacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I've heard that said a few times, but why couldn't AJ, Sami and/or Brock be in the ring at the same time? Not disputing it, I just want to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 They basically undid all the positive work with Reigns in one night and are back to square one with him. Right now it seems like Reigns vs HHH is destined to bomb huge unless the plan is to make HHH top babyface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think their thoughts were that if they always keep one crowd favourite in there at all times it won't get shat on. So when one crowd favourite gets eliminated, they have another one enter next to keep crowd shittery to a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I was there live. HHH got a thunderous babyface pop. Live it was bigger than Brock's and Sasha's easily. Not as big as AJ and maybe not as big as Zayn either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 AJ Styles will be "just another guy" in a year. Perfect is a legendary wrestler and character and a major part of WWE's history. Even a World Title for AJ won't change that (see Swagger, Jack). My point - which you keep missing or conveniently ignoring to make snarky comments - is that final four doesn't matter, and as Slasher pointed out, the final two doesn't always matter either. Santino is the most extreme example, but how often has the final two come down to obvious winner vs. obvious guy that's going to get thrown out? Every year Big Show made the final two, the outcome was never in doubt. Getting back to AJ, you said they should've put him in the final four. I say it makes no difference. He still had a good showing and he'll be pushed however he's pushed. I agree with you completely that AJ would've been a much better choice for the Iron Man spot than Jericho though. My feeling is that Jericho got it because they know he's capable of going 50, while AJ is new to the WWE and they're not entirely sure what he can do yet - outside of what they may have seen on tapes (and that's being very optimistic) or heard from others. With Jericho, they know him and they've seen firsthand for fifteen years what he is capable of. "Go with what you know" is probably how they made that decision, and let's face it, it's a meaningless spot anyway. Jericho went 50 but he may as well have gone 10 because it didn't matter to the match and didn't break any records, so it won't be on any video packages in the future. That's probably why Vince used to throw meaningless midcarders into those Iron Man spots, because it was never seen as an "honor" until the fans made it one. If anything, it was supposedly a "punishment" spot at first. I said, 4, 6, 8, didn't really matter the number as it did the length (granted he got like a solid 25 minutes or so plus in there, so it's not like he was Bushwacker Luke or something) and the showing. AJ coming and looking like a threat early would...make him look like a threat. Going toe to toe with the WWE champ probably does that just as easily in 3 minutes than dragging it over 30 would, but again it was just a thought. I'm sure Jericho was in the spot he was in because that's what he and management wanted him to do. Wasn't a terrible choice for what ultimately didn't matter. But again, I think for the new guy on his first night, that spot could have worked tremendously. Dolph in that spot, who cares. Jericho, cool, but who cares. AJ in that spot and he's right there with the rest of the roster. Not trying to nitpick on what were otherwise very well booked eliminations. Was a thought. And I'm not budging on that perfect point. Perfect is more analogous to Jericho last night than AJ. AJ's situation is/was very unique in some respects. If "rumble booking = preview of future push" is the only similarity, then fine. But for every "Rumble booking doesn't matter" of which there really are numerous examples, like hundreds, there's Roman Reigns in 2014, which probably led us on this doomed path we're on now. They booked him like a monster, he was in the final 2, the crowd ate it up, and bought him as a potential top guy. And the rest is history, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 If they had eliminated Roman after the attack then had his return at the end be just kicking the LON's and HHH's ass to help Ambrose it probably would've got Roman cheered. It seems that most of the time they like doing the opposite of what would get Roman cheered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 So much so that I'm starting to wonder to be honest. I think Vince wants to push Reigns, but I'm honestly wondering how hard it is to manipulate Vince right now. He seems to be losing it. Watching that Rumble the idea was to make HHH the biggest star there and the biggest star ever given he will "draw" a 100,000 house.t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 If they had eliminated Roman after the attack then had his return at the end be just kicking the LON's and HHH's ass to help Ambrose it probably would've got Roman cheered. It seems that most of the time they like doing the opposite of what would get Roman cheered. yeah this right here. If he was going to get eliminated anyway then why do the comeback at all? If they tossed him early the match would have had a lot more intrigue and then HHH would have come off as the heel coming in at 30 to take the title when it's easy pickins instead of coming off like the returning babyface coming to get revenge on the guy who disrespected his family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Would they have been better off just stretchering Reigns out never to return for the night again? Especially since he didn't even make final two anyways? I didn't think of that at the time, but now, I think it would've worked. It also makes it much easier to explain why Reigns should be getting a title match aside from "rematch clause" as they could've played up the idea that Triple H didn't eliminate Reigns - that it was Vince and his goons - and that Triple H knew he couldn't take Reigns out himself, goading the Game into a match by questioning his greatness. Instead, I feel like Triple H won things fair and square, that Reigns deserves a shot no more than Ambrose (IC Champion and runner-up) or Lesnar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Hunter's enjoying a sort of anti-smark popularity right now. He's learned how to win The Game in small, sustainable doses. Some fans seem to now enjoy the idea of the massive egotist building the show around himself, and I have to imagine that in Orlando he gets an extra boost as NXT Proud Papa. A guy as prominent as he is not winning the title in the last seven years makes it feel fresh to some (namely those who still think Attitude Era > the Present), as ridiculous as that sounds. "He'll lose it to Roman in two months" being the other rationalization of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Decent rumble, pretty boring show overall. There's no one to believe in, I mean they're all berks ain't they? You've got two guys like Ambrose and Owens who've been feuding for months yet where are the standout angles or promos? Have there been any at all? The match was fine for what it was but I'm completely numb to these WWE novelty matches by now. New day were on point and fun all night but as I've no use for the matches. They need to be elevated somehow, they're so beyond The Usos/Dudly's and whoever. The video build to the diva's title bout was well done. The match itself was the usual sloppy botch job but the presentation and layout was good and a pleasant surprise (notice they didn't shoe in any 'divas revolution' lines). Lynch is a charismatic performer, it'd be unwise to lose her in the shuffle. Don't care about Del Rio matches, why would I? The rumble was enjoyable for the most part. There were several questionable and outright stupid moments that have already been covered. Ambrose should have won. I've little problem with Himself winning, don't know how much that's down to apathy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 When given the choice between making HHH look great and building interest to a match, they chose the former, which isn't surprising. But HHH got his revenge and did it on the up-and-up. Where's the hook now? Where's the desire to see Reigns avenge this? Avenge what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think it's possible that Styles is the most over debutant in history. C'mon, Doesn't Bill Goldberg's WWE debut blow this out of the water in terms of crowd reaction I guess I wasn't really thinking about guys who jumped between Big Two. I think the reaction Styles got was comparably huge though. I've seen people say they thought the crowd was dead, I disagree and thought they were very hot. Shame about the show though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 One of the greatest sins of this show was Reigns NOT being stretchered out. He was tough guying it by not getting on the stretcher and walking out on his own power, but that begs the question, why didn't he insist on getting back in the ring? It was one of those little misses that just piss me off. Instead of him looking like he was forced to the back he looks like was volunteering for a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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