NXT Takeover: Dallas

[JerryvonKramer]

I honestly cannot fathom hanging out with someone so uptight that they couldn't handle the question "is this guy gay?"

 

And I know more actual hardcore feminists than you might expect. If society ever reaches a point where asking a question like that is actually a taboo, fly me to the fucking moon.

[Jimmy Redman]

Did you ask if Negro Casas was gay when you first saw him prance around a ring?

I know it's not a BIGLAV metric, but still, consistency.

[JerryvonKramer]

I did describe every Joshi worker ever as being either butch or femme lesbian though

[joeg]

I know I haven't been around here long... but I'm imagining JVK at a social gathering, and saying to somebody "hey you know that guy over there? he seems gay to me. is he gay?"

[JerryvonKramer]

I know I haven't been around here long... but I'm imagining JVK at a social gathering, and saying to somebody "hey you know that guy over there? he seems gay to me. is he gay?"

 

I'm sure that's happened, only I was the one being asked about.

 

Also, in my experience, that sort of question is infinitely more likely to come up if there are gay people in the group itself.

 

This has strayed too far from wrestling. But honestly, I refuse to see the harm in asking if Nakamura is gay.

[Jimmy Redman]

I did describe every Joshi worker ever as being either butch or femme lesbian though

 

Hmm...and you have no idea how charming I found it.

[JerryvonKramer]

I also ask these questions as a man who has a pair of pink hair straighteners, "emergency moisturiser" in my car and office and who spends a huge amount of his spare time watching oiled up men pretend to fight each other. And there have been plenty of times I've taken stick for all three of those things. So y'know.

 

I also think that this kind of does matter to Nakamura's presentation, especially if he's going to be booked by the man who created Adorable Adrian Adonis, The Genius and Goldust. Nakamura is clearly playing with gender expectations in interesting ways.

 

Just think people are too quick sometimes to jump to defensive positions, and no good comes of it. And I don't think it's an irrelevant question either because if he WAS gay, it would be a huge deal. It's still something wrestling hasn't really addressed properly, beyond Pat Patterson on the reality show really.

[BigBadMick]

I dunno Parv. Maybe your attitude to the board is different to others? While you see it as a bunch of friends hanging out chatting, there are others (myself included) that wouldn't feel that level of comfort expressing any and all views on here.

 

Great for you that you feel that way, but maybe bear in mind that not everyone else does.

[BigBadMick]

BTW I've just woke up. Get my boy off to school, then Wrestlemania beckons. Looking forward to the 35 page thread afterwards....

[JerryvonKramer]

I dunno Parv. Maybe your attitude to the board is different to others? While you see it as a bunch of friends hanging out chatting, there are others (myself included) that wouldn't feel that level of comfort expressing any and all views on here.

 

Great for you that you feel that way, but maybe bear in mind that not everyone else does.

Controversial views like asking if someone is gay?

[BigBadMick]

I'm not saying it's controversial. I will say that I wouldn't ask a question like that.

[JerryvonKramer]

Right, I guess it's come to saying that I'll never ask about anyone's sexuality ever again on this forum. Bonkers but if it means never having another conversation along these lines, let's go for that.

[Johnny Sorrow]

[C.S.]

This has strayed too far from wrestling. But honestly, I refuse to see the harm in asking if Nakamura is gay.

 

He's not wrong, folks. I was honestly wondering the same thing about the Nakamura character myself. Hence why I made the comment about Vince and Dunn seeing the act and turning him into someone who wears pink tights and shoots hearts out of a glitter gun. Nakamura has very weird, effeminate movements and mannerisms. If noticing the obvious makes us homophobic, *shrug*. I don't think so though. This is pro wrestling, where they trot out acts such as Goldust, Adorable Adrian Adonis, and Johnny B. Badd - all of whom were far more subtle in their "flamboyance" than Nakamura. Based on the "grammar" of pro wrestling, it's a very reasonable question to ask. No one is saying these characters represent homosexuality and homosexuals in the real world - of course not - but you could definitely make a case for wondering if Nakamura represents what it historically has been in wrestling, for better or worse (always worse, of course).

[pol]

So is it just me who never really got 'effeminate' from Nakamura's mannerisms?

[Stiva]

So is it just me who never really got 'effeminate' from Nakamura's mannerisms?

 

I'm with you. Comes across as a dude trying to unsettle his opponent by looking like a fidgety lunatic

[Loss]

There has never been a gay character in a mainstream wrestling company. It's all implications and assumptions. I don't see an issue with asking the question as much as I see an issue with people in wrestling never having the courage to just say what they mean.

[Eegah]

I laughed til I cried watching that when it was released. Top notch stuff.

[The Man in Blak]

I don't have a problem with the question in isolation, but I think it's a little disingenuous to frame all of this as though the question alone was the real problem while ignoring the context that surrounded it. GOTNW already tried to explain some of the reasoning behind the reaction here and, for the sake of keeping things Pro Wrestling Only, I don't know if it's worth a second round. If you want to self-reflect and maybe spend longer than a second thinking about why someone might react that way, then great. If you don't, then don't.

 

At any rate, I thought Nakamura was great and I'm somehow who feels like he was uneven at best up until a couple of years ago when he had a personality transplant. I can envision a scenario where he would succeed in WWE, but it's not one that's rooted in any kind of reality.

[funkdoc]

i never got that vibe from Nakamura, but i've spent way too much time analyzing parts of Japanese pop culture. gender presentation is awfully different there.

 

a particularly key concept is that in Japan, grace & elegance can be seen as part of masculinity. those qualities are often brought up in discussions of Japan's equivalents to Genghis Khan or Lu Bu, in part because they're seen as reflective of technique. that's an area where i think you can draw a parallel with Nakamura, as his striking skill is what sets him apart from other pro wrestlers.

 

you have to remember, a whole generation of WWE fans grew up on Final Fantasy games starring skinny emo dudes with spiky hair & giant swords. Nakamura is an act that will play great to them, but less so to the house-show crowds.

[jcmmnx]

I never thought anything more about Nak's mannerisms than a dude with a lot of charisma doing fun stuff. Just a bizarre thread for one of the best shows of the year.

[El-P]

That's the worst haiku I've ever read.

 

Oh, and welcome back.

 

Thanks. And thanks.

[Graham Crackers]

My friends and I have been calling Shinsuke "Japanese Danny Brown" for years. I genuinely thought it was a Molly gimmick.

[goodhelmet]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned that his mannerisms and movements (at least in his entrance) are a Japanese Michael Jackson tribute act. I never thought he was gay or playing a gay character when watching him.

[WingedEagle]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned that his mannerisms and movements (at least in his entrance) are a Japanese Michael Jackson tribute act. I never thought he was gay or playing a gay character when watching him.

 

He's outright said he tries to incorporate Freddy Mercury & MJ.